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Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

The question of realism in sports games is always a tricky thing to discuss. Most of us want our sports games to be “realistic” depictions of what we watch on TV or experience in our day-to-day lives.

What that usually means is hoping Madden makes the passing game more diversified, or hoping you can botch your cap situation like a true Jerry Jones disciple. In many respects, what people are talking about wanting here at Operation Sports are “simulation” aspects that help keep a game dynamic and interesting. Repetition is the enemy.

But there’s another layer of “realism” in sports games, as well as another set of creative liberties that go along with it. I would classify this element of realism as visual realism. It’s one part graphics, but it’s also just one part physicality. Hockey games, football games, basketball games, even baseball games all have to deal with collisions and physics. What do these interactions look like? How do they make you feel? (Boxing games and MMA games are built around visual physicality, so I’m ignoring them here because combat sports are a whole other disucssion.)

So when it comes to Madden, something I see every season now is a frustration with a lack of “big hits” now in the game. The “feel” of using the Hit Stick is not as satisfying as it once was, and the act of “decleating” someone is not what it used to be. There is a longing for these massive, and yes, dangerous hits.

However, how acceptable is this desire to see dangerous hits, even if they have a “satisfying” feel? Knowing what we know about concussions and head injuries, is it awkward to want crippling hits in our football video games? Is it weird to see certain hits go unflagged even though they’re blatant head shots or late hits?

These are not simple questions to me, so let’s chat more after the jump.

(Side note: I know the timing is a bit weird here -- what with the NFL Draft coming up this week -- but Madden 17 coverage will begin in earnest soon after the draft, so it feels like one of the final times I can talk about this topic before everyone just wants to talk about the new hotness.)

The Role of Video Games

I want to say first and foremost that the NFL and its owners are the gatekeepers here as it relates to CTE and football. When you have a top NFL official saying football and CTE are connected, that’s a positive step towards admitting there’s a problem.

When Jerry Jones comes out and says there is no correlation between CTE and football a week after the original statement from the NFL, that’s a bad look. It’s an even worse look when another NFL owner, in this case Jim Irsay, comes out and makes an analogy where playing football is compared to taking an aspirin. Not only is it moronic and disingenuous to make such a comparison, it’s selfish and gross to put your personal brand above the well being of those you employ and supposedly care about.

NFL officials and owners still have a lot of work to do to show they truly care, and are trying to be genuine in their pursuit of admitting both the seriousness of head injuries and the magnitude of the problem at hand. Point being, it’s not on video games and the developers to “fix” football and the science behind bashing your head into stuff really hard every day.

But what video games may have some responsibility for is addressing the seriousness of these hits when they occur, as well as trying to avoid glorifying these moments. The “glorification” part is especially tricky when many, as I said, miss the days of the Hit Stick being a form of first-degree assault.

So About Madden...

As it relates to the seriousness of these hits, Madden is in a weird spot. It’s a game trying to be driven more and more by physics rather than canned animations, but what this leads to are hits like these:
 


I have a lot of problems with this hit:

-It’s a defenseless player
-The play is whistled dead
-It’s a helmet-to-helmet hit
-There is no flag on the play and nothing is said about the hit
-It’s also an unintended, but awkward coincidence that a “success” chime goes off for achieving a goal as the Cowboys player is torpedoed.

Nothing about that sequence is user-driven either. That is a CPU defender diving in late to take a shot at a receiver.

But do you care? Does this bother you at all? Should this bother you?

To put it another way, does it bother you that this is a dangerous hit, or does it more bother you that the tackling in this game resembles dudes just throwing their corpses at each other some of the time?

Here’s another example:
 


Does that look like good, safe, smart tackling to you? I have never played real football a day in my life, but that sure looks really dangerous and illegal. I’m not trying to sit here and say video games should teach kids proper tackling technique, but I also don’t know who is being better served by seeing stuff like the above in a video game.

And this isn’t about trying to say GTA turns kids into car-jacking, hooker-beating maniacs. What I’m simply saying is ignoring the issue, or making tackling look insanely unsafe is not a great look for the NFL, and it’s not realistic either.

The measured approach in my mind is embrace the danger of the sport and show off the outcomes. For example, whether it’s because the NFL doesn’t want concussions to exist anymore, or because the Madden developers simply took them out, I don’t think I’ve experienced a virtual concussion in Madden 16. I have not seen anyone go through a concussion protocol. Therefore, I have to make the assumption head injuries do not exist in this fantasy realm.

I don’t agree with that approach. Even if concussions are rare in the game rather than nonexistent, it would still be a phony way to address the problem. After all, saying nothing about concussions and pretending they’re not a big deal is a big part of the problem.

Regardless, from a logical and visual perspective, a lot of hits in Madden just look stupid. Most of the time, these are hits that are entirely driven by physics rather than canned “Hit Stick” animations. Some of the “best” hits in Madden are currently illegal in real life and look dumb.

I think the GIFs I have shown here are examples of what I would consider stupid looking, physics-based hits. In these cases, Madden makes the sport look bad, dangerous and unrealistic. Of course, the sport will always be dangerous, but at least show the danger in such a way that makes sense and is in line with the realism on the field.

There is still a place for “big hits” in Madden, just with caveats. If you want to show off a massive shoulder to chest hit where a player gets wrecked, go for it. After all, players do get hurt after being hit hard in Madden -- it just ends with a broken jaw rather than a concussion.

But the days of glossing over the results of these hits should be gone. The days of watching a defenseless player get launched into by a physics-based meat patty should be over. The days of defenders not even trying to protect themselves when diving should be behind us. And the virtual referees should do their jobs and step in when things go over the line.

As a sim-oriented community, it would be hypocritical to expect anything less.


Member Comments
# 61 SageInfinite @ 04/27/16 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadman
Eh, game play with 2k, I am reminded I am playing a video game. They get more right than they get wrong, but there are some glaring issues.
No game is perfect but there's enough there to suspend reality longer than Madden. There's an effort there missing in Madden games.
 
# 62 prhiam @ 04/27/16 12:52 PM
I'll echo the sentiment that there are many more important things to fix in Madden before I even start to think about dangerous hits. They need to re-program the entire player movement system before they start going in on hits.
 
# 63 roadman @ 04/27/16 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageInfinite
No game is perfect but there's enough there to suspend reality longer than Madden. There's an effort there missing in Madden games.
I want to be clear I wasn't saying they are on par with one another in game play, but I stopped playing 2k back around January because of my issues with the game.
 
# 64 Scott @ 04/27/16 05:18 PM
Keep it on topic.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
# 65 Candyman5 @ 04/28/16 02:36 PM
I dont mind big hits, its the hit stick that needs to go.
 
# 66 4thQtrStre5S @ 04/28/16 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candyman5
I dont mind big hits, its the hit stick that needs to go.

I would have to argue that the hit stick should stay in game, and what needs to be addressed is better animations and player bracing for a hit they are logically aware of, such as a defender coming straight at a ball carrier head on; any real person would brace, lower a shoulder or try to truck through the opposition; in Madden the ball carrier stays upright and runs right into most big hits.
 
# 67 GlennN @ 04/29/16 09:26 AM
I care very much - that these kinds of hits be included. And that is why football is more fun these days in video games than in real life. I love the bone rattling hit by a safety on a WR daring to go across the middle. Not so much the late hits the posted clips show (those I could do without). I don't like that a defender has to worry about whether an offensive player lowers his head or not. Football is a contact sport - you will get hit. I don't want to see anyone hurt, so I get the new rules in the modern NFL. But I miss the physical intimidation that used to be present. I want that in my videogame version!
 
# 68 actionhank @ 05/02/16 01:46 PM
I think the issue comes into play when it's a good hit, or a bad hit, and not just the result of animations not executing properly and looking bad, when the game meant for them to be bad.

I guess the NHL series is my best point to talk from, as I haven't played Madden in years. Also, I think the NHL series is easier to have a more black-and-white look at hits, rather than the potentially grey hits in Madden, judging by these clips.

I think in game bad hits should be realistically punished. I think it's one of the frustrating aspects of the EA series. Aside from the fact that the penalties seem to be entirely random at times (a hit from the side can get you a 5 minute major, while a clear hit from behind can injure your player and only get a 2 minute penalty) there's no suspension, no fines...no reason not to do it.

If you skate into a player without the puck and just level them, you don't get suspended for X number of games, you at worst get kicked out of that game. But if you did it to their star player and injured them, you're hardly at a loss for it.
 
# 69 D81SKINS @ 05/02/16 06:04 PM
This is what a hit looks like!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ER9u6-wx_gM
If EA could get defenders to naturally roll back on their feet and have all 1 fluid motion in hits. It's not just the hit, it's the attitude in the hit, Before, during and after.
We DO need hits to matter! I used to dominate on defense w/ Sean Taylor in Madden, he would LAY THE WOOD! We need the "Hit stick" to bring more variety to the table. I would like more options on how we do lay the wood, that would be good!
Just how EA added more catching options/animations, do the same for the D!

See how he drives his whole body through the player!
#Meast21RIP
 
# 70 Aggies7 @ 05/03/16 07:44 AM
Honestly as long as the hits are realistic I am fine with them. I just don't want to see over the top hit that you would never see on Sunday.
 
# 71 seriousluboy83 @ 05/03/16 08:37 AM
I think the "clean-up" hits need to be tuned accordingly and if not penalties and possible injuries need to occur. I like the way the "conservative" tackles have been added but the range of the conservative tackle is far too wide. I personally started calling them SUPERMAN tackles. And I've been thinking for a while now that the "aggressive/hit-stick" tackles need to be removed as a whole. If a guy has high hit power he'll still be able to force fumbles with a "conservative" tackle just not at as high of a rate with the "aggressive" tackle. And with the era of hard hits pretty much dead in the NFL i think it needs to die too within Madden. I mean aren't we trying to simulate the NFL we see on Sunday, this isn't the glory days of football anymore. With all the awareness of head injuries and such and lowering the target area of hits I think the "hit-stick" needs to be laid to rest
 
# 72 4thQtrStre5S @ 05/03/16 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seriousluboy83
I think the "clean-up" hits need to be tuned accordingly and if not penalties and possible injuries need to occur. I like the way the "conservative" tackles have been added but the range of the conservative tackle is far too wide. I personally started calling them SUPERMAN tackles. And I've been thinking for a while now that the "aggressive/hit-stick" tackles need to be removed as a whole. If a guy has high hit power he'll still be able to force fumbles with a "conservative" tackle just not at as high of a rate with the "aggressive" tackle. And with the era of hard hits pretty much dead in the NFL i think it needs to die too within Madden. I mean aren't we trying to simulate the NFL we see on Sunday, this isn't the glory days of football anymore. With all the awareness of head injuries and such and lowering the target area of hits I think the "hit-stick" needs to be laid to rest
I see yoir point, and understand where you are coming from, but on a fun level, I enjoy the hit stick; I would like ball carriers to brace for obvious big hits, such as those coming from a defender going for a hit from the head on position.

For me, the hit stick provides some of the old school hitting I remember as a kid; back when football was more violent and exciting from a defensive perspective..Now it is more about long passes and spectacular catches; the defense is left on the sidelines and Madden more closely resembles a basketball game; whoever scores last, wins..

Obviously the hit stick isn't what stops offenses from scoring, but it does help make defense fun, when you can punish a ball carrier, when that is all we have for fun on defense, for the most part...

As for defense, when playing the CPU, I would like to see more time before he snap to make adjustments; the offense of the CPU seems to always be in "hurry up" mode, and it makes defense rather boring because a player has a very small window to adjust, and we have a lot of adjustments we can do on defense but just not much time.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.
 
# 73 gjneff @ 05/12/16 12:39 AM
Big hits rarely feel like big hits in Madden anymore. D is so boring when you line a guy up and go in to lay him out and it does some awkward hug and they fall to the ground.
 
# 74 Cavicchi @ 05/14/16 08:25 AM
Yes, I care about dangerous hits, because I'll be 74 in August and don't want to get hurt.
 


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