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Madden 16: Is Connected Franchise Sacrificing Realism? (Roundtable)

Last week, we learned a ton about what Madden NFL 16 is bringing to the table when it comes to connected franchise mode. Several intriguing new features are coming, which will include a visual depth chart and a new weekly goal system. However, it is in that latter feature where the staff finds its biggest hang-up with the announcement of the mode. Is Madden sacrificing realism to create a more RPG like experience in Connected Franchise? We discuss after the jump!

Ben Vollmer: Unfortunately, this year's slate of changes have done nothing to convince me that Madden is looking to become more simulation and less arcade. There is a ton of examples of over-thinking what should be a simple process.

Player performance should dictate player progression, not a series of arbitrary goals (which one can only muse will be something like: "achieve two sacks with X player!"). There are so many things that go into playing a good game of football that it seems silly for it to all boil down to a few player goals. It marginalizes the team aspect of the game and puts far too much emphasis on stat-padding.

For instance, lets look at the example given in the release: "Breakout Running Back." The "Breakout Running Back" goal will almost certainly have an arbitrary number attached to it - let's say 1,000 yards rushing in a season. All that serves to do is promote an unrealistic style of team management in which you're doing everything in your power to achieve that goal for better player growth. Why not, instead of the whole goal system, have player progression be dictated by all-around performance and playing time? Rushing for 1,000 yards doesn't make my running back a better player, especially if that's coming at 2.0 YPC. It just means that I, the user, spam-rushed the ball in order to achieve some silly goal.

In the end, there's still a lot we don't know about the goal system (the vernacular used seemed almost intentionally vague), so it's best to hold off on judgement for now. Though, if the past is any indication, Madden 16 may do more to push players away from realism than it does to pull them toward it.

The details we are seeing from EA so far on Connected Franchise leave me with mixed emotions.

Jeremy Chisenhall: I really like the Sim-A-Win feature because it can allow me to control division races, and the Combine Stats so I can get a better look at potential draft picks. However, the goals system sounds like it is going to make progression even less realistic than it already was, as users will be earning XP more quickly to upgrade their players even faster. Not only that, but achieving little goals aside from winning games to earn extra boosts gives the game more of an RPG feel than a simulation football feel.

Aside from the lack of movement towards a more simulation game, the Free Practice mode is just another example of Madden taking something away just to advertise it as a selling point in a later release.

I'm sure the mode will still be fun to play, but the "weekly goals" and the additions of features that should have already been there shows that this series still is not where it should be.

Kevin Groves: As with most Madden news these days, I'm left with conflicted feelings. On one hand you have the welcome additions (or re-additions depending on how you look at it) of Sim-to-Win, Free Practice, and visible Scouting Reports. On the other hand you have the RPG-esque goal system which, IMO, takes steps away from a simulation based approach and could possibly lead to players focusing their efforts on solely trying to achieve these outcomes as opposed to incorporating realistic football strategies. Perhaps a better solution could have been a combination of these weekly/in-game RPG elements with a yearly, user selected set of goals. For example, I would haved loved to take over the Bucs and set a realistic goal for Jameis Winston along the lines of throwing for at least 3,000 yards, positive TD/INT ratio, increase in wins from the year before, etc.

Team based yearly performance goals (e.g. a +40% 3rd down conversion %, positive giveaway/takeaway turnover ratio, etc.) would also be a welcome addition as would be a more finely tuned regression system.

It's still early in the news cycle for Madden 16 so there's still hope for further expansions to Connected Franchise. The re-introduction of Formation Subs would go a long way towards gaining positive momentum for this franchise.

Chris Sanner: I'll just say this, we are early in the cycle and who knows what exactly the weekly goals are going to do. Its possible we are going in a fully RPG and not quite realistic route -- but it could be a fun mini-game within your connected franchise experience as well.

What does bother me though, is that you could take the news of the player confidence fluctuating and really come up with some fantastical scenarios that could really mess with the rating. If I'm Demarco Murray and I rush for 250 yards, but I fumble twice -- is my confidence up or down? What if I rush for 99 yards, one short of my game goal -- does that mean I'm less confident now?

Outside of that, at least getting that information to you on a more accessible basis is a good thing. However, I do fear the goals are going to be completely stupid at times. If I'm the head coach, I don't want a goal telling me to pass for 50 yards on this drive after running the ball down my opponents throat -- and if I don't meet it while scoring a touchdown my team's confidence goes down. Nuts.

Everything else sounds ok, but there's nothing in the release that I'd go out on a limb and say it's going to change how we play sports games. Connected Franchise is still an intriguing mode, but I fear it's trying to do too much, when the experiences within could be better tailored in a separate manner.


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Member Comments
# 121 cowboy_kmoney @ 06/11/15 12:56 AM
It's over for Madden. I Kant see a future for this team if they will just out anything out. Wow We are in need of 2K or somebody to get the Licence and make a game for real football lovers.
 
# 122 Gosens6 @ 06/11/15 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy_kmoney
It's over for Madden. I Kant see a future for this team if they will just out anything out. Wow We are in need of 2K or somebody to get the Licence and make a game for real football lovers.
It's not over for madden, and it probably never will be. This game will continue to sell, and sell fairly well this year and into the foreseeable future.

You have to realize this new generation of gamers that they're marketing to really could care less about a franchise mode and all the realistic aspects we crave.

We're in the MUT and online generation. The majority of guys don't care about playing offline against the cpu, it seems even online franchise guys are in the minority these days.

Madden isn't a true to life NFL sim, and it probably never will be. EA is catering to the online generation, and if those guys are happy and buying the game, nothing is going to change.

I think Skyboxer said it best. Accept the game for what it is, a football game modeled after the NFL, with elements of realism sprinkled in, or stop buying and disappointing yourself.
 
# 123 brza37 @ 06/11/15 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gosens6
It's not over for madden, and it probably never will be. This game will continue to sell, and sell fairly well this year and into the foreseeable future.

You have to realize this new generation of gamers that they're marketing to really could care less about a franchise mode and all the realistic aspects we crave.

We're in the MUT and online generation. The majority of guys don't care about playing offline against the cpu, it seems even online franchise guys are in the minority these days.

Madden isn't a true to life NFL sim, and it probably never will be. EA is catering to the online generation, and if those guys are happy and buying the game, nothing is going to change.

I think Skyboxer said it best. Accept the game for what it is, a football game modeled after the NFL, with elements of realism sprinkled in, or stop buying and disappointing yourself.
And the biggest factor why Madden will never die is that it is the only licensed NFL game. The NFL is so popular that any game, no matter how buggy or broken it may be will still sell millions of copies year in and year out if its the only choice on consoles. You could put an NFL logo on Shaq-Fu, call it Madden 16 and it would still sell a million copies.

EDIT: And to be clear, I'm not saying Madden is completely buggy or broken or comparing it directly to Shaq-Fu. I'm just stating the fact that any game with an exclusive NFL license will continue to thrive as long as the NFL and console video games are popular.
 
# 124 cthurt @ 06/11/15 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gosens6
It's not over for madden, and it probably never will be. This game will continue to sell, and sell fairly well this year and into the foreseeable future.

You have to realize this new generation of gamers that they're marketing to really could care less about a franchise mode and all the realistic aspects we crave.

We're in the MUT and online generation. The majority of guys don't care about playing offline against the cpu, it seems even online franchise guys are in the minority these days.

Madden isn't a true to life NFL sim, and it probably never will be. EA is catering to the online generation, and if those guys are happy and buying the game, nothing is going to change.

I think Skyboxer said it best. Accept the game for what it is, a football game modeled after the NFL, with elements of realism sprinkled in, or stop buying and disappointing yourself.


This is so true, its more likely guys like us will stop buying the game before Madden will stop selling the game, it sucks being part of the minority but it makes sense for Madden to focus on what really sells their game and for now that's the MUT stuff. I cant wait for the MUT movement to get old so they can get back to the meat and potatoes of the game the franchise mode.
 
# 125 therealsmallville @ 06/11/15 11:32 AM
17 years ago, Madden '99 debuted. "The Year of the Cyber Athlete". Granted, they were a year behind NFL Gameday in the 3D model department, but they introduced something so revolutionary that I'm not sure any sports title has surpassed yet (not speaking in quality here, but in "Holy #%#% I can't believe this exists!")...that revolutionary feature was called "Franchise Mode".

It was bare bones, of course, and it only went 15 seasons if I recall. But for the first time ever you had full control of your team, the players, their contracts. You had FA and the draft. It was amazing, it was groundbreaking, it was VISIONARY.

Yes, they had stiff competition then, and yes Gameday played more fluidly. But the Madden think-tank invented something huge, and it was built on iteration after iteration until the debut of the 360, all the while improving the on-field game as well. Back then, resources didn't need to be "focused" on this area or that; every area just got improved, like it was their job or something. They attempted to create a realistic front office experience, and Madden 99 was a damn fine first attempt.

What happened to the creative drive at EA? I hear talk of "we want the casual gamer", and "our primary concern is giving gamers what they want! Have some XP!", when the focus SHOULD be on "we have this amazing technology. Our predeccessors set a bar, but we can do better."

Yeah, I know there's no competition for Madden...but why did that kill the drive to create something amazing? It's killed the drive of every developer on the staff since 2005...I just don't get it. EA hasn't just sacrificed realism with floating XP animations and half-baked CFM modes...they've sacrificed drive and motivation.

To me, those are the biggest losses Madden has experienced in the last decade.


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# 126 roadman @ 06/11/15 11:50 AM
I feel it's misdirected drive and motivation.

This is based on their telemetry, numbers and the decision makers.

All they need to do is come out with options to choose from. Deep involved NFL Franchise mode or the quick COD type franchise mode.

It's all about spending the resources to do it.
 
# 127 Hooe @ 06/11/15 03:19 PM
I've always seen Owner Mode as pretty frivolous as well.

I suppose it's appropriate to have a mode for a step above coaches to manage hiring and firing of coaching staff, but I personally have no interest in managing the macro-economics of my team unrelated to football operations. I don't care about concession prices, parking space prices, or what have you.

I think I'd rather there be a distinction between the General Manager and the Head Coach, to be honest, with the GM responsible for player personnel and the head coach responsible for getting the best players the GM finds onto the field.
 
# 128 therealsmallville @ 06/11/15 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoom zoom
And those of us playing FPS FBPro were amused by what console gamers called "revolutionary."



"Oh cute, they are still controlling players with controllers. How adorable!"



Madden's franchise mode was, and is, honestly, the weakest part of their game. It has always been terrible. Seriously? Ticket prices, hot dogs, custom stadiums? You are talking about why I avoided it like the plague.

I believe there's a rule regarding discussion of other football games in Madden threads. You should probably keep the topic on track instead of talking about FBPro, and be amused somewhere else


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# 129 oneamongthefence @ 06/11/15 07:26 PM
I think it's sacrificing immersiveness more so than realism. Its hard to be immersed when everything comes down to a number. Scouting is just numbers, ratings are numbers, goals are just more numbers. We used to have scouting reports for drafts and scouting reports for upcoming teams. There used to be a morale system. Players were more or seemed like more than numbers. It's realistic to see players as numbers since that's what most gms and owners do. Stats and production but its also a very dry way to look at it.
 
# 130 ggsimmonds @ 06/11/15 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Hooe
I've always seen Owner Mode as pretty frivolous as well.

I suppose it's appropriate to have a mode for a step above coaches to manage hiring and firing of coaching staff, but I personally have no interest in managing the macro-economics of my team unrelated to football operations. I don't care about concession prices, parking space prices, or what have you.

I think I'd rather there be a distinction between the General Manager and the Head Coach, to be honest, with the GM responsible for player personnel and the head coach responsible for getting the best players the GM finds onto the field.
Coming from someone who enjoys owner mode, in its current implementation, yeah it is completely frivolous.

It needs to matter somehow. Granted that presents challenges with the NFL. In order to make it matter you may have to sacrifice realism/accuracy.

Personally I want the mode to be as deep as it can be, but I am primarily a PC gamer who started out playing the old school SimCity games so I am probably not the typical Madden gamer in that regard. I love me some numbers and graphs (that have meaning and a tangible effect)
 
# 131 tabarnes19_SDS @ 06/13/15 10:56 AM
I have not bought madden since they developed the xp system for progression. It's the most unrealistic progression system and destroys the franchise mode for me.

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# 132 Xavier LaFlamme @ 07/03/15 02:00 AM
Madden has continually let us hardcore fans down year to year with its additions..or should I say subtractions? It seems every year they bring back something that should have never left and think we won't notice that it was here before..and that we most likely loved it. I've seen the comments on formation subs which I 100%! Agree need to come back, so I won't touch on that. But I'm a huge realism guy. Nothing bothers me more than the fact that I can draft a team in CFM and draft QB, RB, and WR last because a 69 QB is barely different than a 92 QB. More so with skill positions. I draft Tavon Austin, Devin Hester and Deanthony thomas in the last rounds and they are the 3 best WRs in the league come the playoffs. I don't use cheat plays, or pad my stats, I just give them the ball and let them fly. they fly past Sherman and Revis because of the speed change which should happen maybe once the entire year. Maybe once. I can't tell my CB's who to guard because I can put my 80 WR in the WR1 spot and my opponents best CB will be on them while I rip apart his other CB with my 94 in WR2 spot. Just as everyone else said, I'm sick of these progression systems. I just ran the ball from my end zone to their end zone because they have a soft run stop and you want me to throw for 300 yards and 2 TD's or I don't get XP? If that's the case, Russell Wilson better be a mid 80's rating at best. He doesn't get 75 yards in a drive or whatever else that's gonna be unrealistically asked. Of course I'm gonna get madden this year, I'm a football addict. Along with going to every pats game, and checking my fantasy team every 20 minutes, I'll be doing my CFM mode and wondering why I can't do X, Y, and Z. Thank GOD they put in the combine scores to scouting, because not knowing a players physical ability without paying up is ridiculous. I just hope to god there are no negative points. if there is, I will have a tough time enjoying this game. If my players regress because I don't agree with a goal. I'm not gonna risk my game or force a play because of the goal. And I'm sure as h*ll not going to play my way to the goal. This is not call of duty. Next thing madden adds is gonna be perks and win streaks. "Win 5 games in a row get the other teams game plan". "Win 7 games in a row improve your QB's overall for the next game". I'm done with this arcade feel they're leaning towards. If they don't start adding what the madden community is asking for, they're gonna see a drop, if they haven't already. Disappointed to say the least
 
# 133 Skyboxer @ 07/03/15 09:11 AM
They'll continue to make millions.... they are delivering exactly what the "Madden Community" wants on most things.
"Hardcore" is the minority.
 
# 134 redsox4evur @ 07/03/15 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyboxer
They'll continue to make millions.... they are delivering exactly what the "Madden Community" wants on most things.
"Hardcore" is the minority.
I see this with so many different games. You need to think how many copies game x sells. With Madden that number is around 10-15 million I think. And I would venture to guess that the sim/hardcore community is around 10% of that number. The arcade community is probably 20%. And the reset are just casual fans who just play for the game for ****s and giggles. It's all that's out there so won't do it. If there was competition they would get Madden because it's what they have grown up playing.
 
# 135 jifgnb @ 07/03/15 12:22 PM
I paid for the game. Just let me have access to everything! And the observation is spot on - goals will make cheesing and exploits a high priority again.
 
# 136 CaseIH @ 07/05/15 04:52 PM
Love being able to sim a win for teams, because I like my franchise to be atleats close to whats happening IRL, its why I love manual injuries that MLBTS has had for a few years now.

I have been concerned since thye started this connected career modes that were losing realistic simulation, but Im willing to see how all this new stuff works, as it could very well be a great addition, or it may very well ruin it for hard core sports fans that want a true simulation of football.
 
# 137 kenchun24 @ 08/02/15 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantBlue76
How do you know this? Is there some quantitative measure you are using for this?

Anyone who plays a game cares about something that engrosses them. If that weren't true, then NBA 2k (for example) would never sell a copy. It's ridiculously in depth compared to what we have for football. Whether you like it or not is not the discussion here. It is the FACT that it is massive in depth from player controls, to playbooks, to the depth in the league and my player modes. If you like or love sports, you are interested in these things. There are modes in games for someone to just play a game of madden every once in a great while, however, those who are routinely buying the game every year (or a yearly sports game in general) are interested in a deep, immersive sports game.

I was discussing this very thing with a co-worker of mine. He plays MLB the show. He plays it daily. He does not follow Major League Baseball though. He doesn't watch MLB games on TV and doesn't really have a favorite team. He is what you would call your "casual" gamer. (I hate that term, because I think it is nonsense, but that's a whole different discussion). He plays it because he loves how immersive it is and how much stuff there is to do OUTSIDE of just playing the games. The team management aspects, contract aspects, player and personality management, etc. etc. all gets him psyched to play it.

This is my problem with Tiburon's approach. They claim that they want more people to play certain modes because not enough people are playing them. They reason isn't because they are "too in depth" or difficult. They aren't playing them because they are oversimplified, boring and there is very little immersion. There is a reason why so many of the people who went there providing input asked for an option to skip pre-season. Why do people want to skip it? Simple... Because it's pointless. It's just another game except worse. No confidence, no position battling, no real evaluation or storylines get generated about break out players, nothing. There is nothing interesting about it. Why bother? So instead of thinking along these lines, let's just make it one less thing to bother doing in the offseason/pre-season. Pretty soon there will be no point to contract negotiation or player management. Why bother? The contracts are simple beyond belief. There is nothing fun about managing my team. I simply offer 3 or 4 contracts to the player and he accepts or he says buzz off. Big deal. There is nothing about him outperforming a contract or having a major injury affect his value or price in the market. There is nothing that is exciting about doing any of this. How about weekly prep? You guys always talk about them wanting to make Madden fun for the masses. How is gameprep fun? I click a few buttons and rush through. I don't know anyone who is excited about preparing their team to play the following week. How about the ability to prepare like a real NFL team would? Give me a host of things to do that could affect my team differently than another guy's team in my league. How am I managing my injured players? Are they getting the best care? (Obviously I am touching on only a few examples here). There is so much that could be done here it's not even funny. These are the things that are fun. Something that is truly engaging and immerses me into the fantasy of running my own NFL franchise. Of course, you can always make it easier. Have OPTIONS (imagine that) that allow the user to be in control of as much or as little as he/she desires. There is so little in CFM currently that immerses a user into the feeling they are running an NFL team.

No one is asking to simply skip through everything and just get to the games. This is why people who are single player folks (I am not one of them, online league only) play the game for 2 weeks and then forget about it. It's boring. The actual games are only a small fraction of a franchise mode, and clearly, you can see that many people don't even PLAY the actual games. They want to be immersed in the management aspects and the play calling. Without that, those long time franchise mode fans are now alienated and don't feel inclined to play or purchase Madden.
100% agree. The games Franchise depth has been stagnant, while other MLB/FIFA/NBA games have ALL the stuff Madden should have had in Franchise mode since going back to Madden 2007 (released in 2006 on one year on new gen consoles) on 360/PS3 for crying out loud.
 
# 138 warhorseballa06 @ 08/02/15 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox4evur
Online, maybe but not MUT. There are 2 completely different development teams working on these 2 modes.

Da heck does that have to do with them not ruining CFM?? I don't remember the statement saying anything or disputing two different development teams...[emoji102]


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# 139 TwoIsBetterThanJuan @ 07/27/16 05:20 PM
Here is my wishlist for Madden CFM (in no particular order):
1. Ability to everything about a player any time (like 2k Sports and NCAA football). IMO it helps keeping it fresh.
2. Different Story lines, for more then just rookie prospects and often blandish, repetitive. Suspensions, hold outs, ect.
3. If I win a super bowl with the Vikings or any other team without a SuperBowl ring one year, then work my a** off in the offseason building through draft/FA and come back the next season to win back to back i dont want to hear "the Lombardi trophy is at long last headed to Minnesota" 2 seasons in a row.
4. Any other sports game makes an effort to keep track of historic stats at least a little, I haven't seen this for years in a Madden game. The legacy score is neat, but if thats the way you are gonna go at least incorporate more stats to show why the legacy is so high, not just "awards, conference championships, and SuperBowl wins. I wanna see total yds tds att ect. I know I am not the only person who feels like historic stats would add depth to the game as I have read countless posts regarding it but sadly if i want them I need to do it by hand. The only historic stats available are the top 10 records for each category which IMO feels incomplete.
5. I think the OVR ratings are generally way to high (for mechanics of the game) and combine that with how out of whack the sliders are and IMO it leads to a sloppy feeling game. I think custom sliders in game should be allowed, along with better/more complete explanations of what each one does. I like in NCAA how you can also have Heisman difficulty on offence and freshman on D if you want to more custom fit your playstyle/skillset.
6. If madden has the rights to everything NFL (virtually) why isnt the "news feed" NFL Network or ESPN based? Combine that with the story line improvements i mentioned before and i think it could add depth/realism to the game.
7. I know there is more I'm not thinking of right now, but basically what i want madden to do is combine their playcalling with nfl 2k5 type of physics/gm type stuff with the depth that NCAA offers.
 
# 140 TwoIsBetterThanJuan @ 07/27/16 05:29 PM
When it comes to how I feel about madden, it's 90% the little things that add up that bug me more then a couple of the big things. I understand trying to appeal to as many people as possible, I understand making video games/writing the code/ all that sh*t is not the easiest job in the world. I understand when making a sports game you probably are never gonna get the physics/real life decisions by cpu every time ect. However I do not understand how so many little things are taken out of the game and then 5 years later introduced as a "new feature" or the laziness to just not add it in. The little stuff is the difference between an average and great video game for me regardless of genre. I dont expect it to be perfect, but I wanna see that they at least take pride in their product/craft and for it to be evident in the game itself, not "well im proud we updated a roster, added a feature we had 15 years ago, and made millions from it because we bought the NFL and made it so anyone who wants to play a pro football game has to either play a very outdated one (granted rosters are available) or one with updated rosters that just feels incomplete. ok repetitive rant over. Have fun everyone!
 


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