Implementing a Better Spring Training in MLB: The Show

Feature Article

Submitted on: 03/13/2015 by Ben Vollmer

Every sports game is forced to tackle the same issue every year: how can you add a pre-season that feels both efficient and meaningful?

It is a complex issue because, while hardcore gamers are going to want spring training to feel as important as it is in real life, others simply want to simulate right through it and get on with the regular season. So accommodating both sides is the crux of the problem. Giving those who would normally simulate a reason to actually play through spring training seems like the most simple answer, so here are five ways MLB: The Show could more successfully implement spring training:

1. Treat it as a true tryout: This is one problem that is going to persist in sports gaming for as long as ratings exist. The Show tackles it the best, with hot and cold streaks often dictating a player's performance despite rankings. Still, it would be nice if player-ratings were a little more vague and slightly more flexible around spring training. Then, as spring training goes on, their ratings become more fixed and the picture of who your best options are becomes more clear. Depending on performance, the rating might be slightly higher or lower going into the regular season than when going into spring training.

2. Unique Presentation: Spring training should have a unique feel. The games are relaxed, broadcasts are much less formal, and fans react differently. This should be apparent in MLB: The Show.

3. Substitutions should be extremely frequent: This would require a major overhaul to CPU A.I., but it would be nice if teams were constantly replacing players on the field with new ones -- so as to get a look at everyone.

4. Create-A-Park: Would there ever be a better time to have a created ballpark than for spring training? Being able to use your own park for about a month every year would keep the game fresh and give more incentive to play some spring training games.

5. A time for "gems" and "busts": Having some kind of system where spring training opens the door for one "gem" and one "bust" every year would keep things interesting. This could be dictated by statistics over the course of spring training.

Have any spring training implementations you would like to share? Let's hear them!

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Member Comments

# 61 Knight165 @ 03/17/15 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @legendm0de


	Maybe you've had a different spring training experience than the rest of us.

In what respect?
That's a rather broad statement.

You mentioned....it's had the same issue since it's inception.
What issue is that?

You also mentioned that if they "don't care" about something...they remove it.
Can you elaborate? What have they removed that leads you to say this?

M.K.
Knight165

# 62 @legendm0de @ 03/17/15 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight165


	In what respect? That's a rather broad statement. You mentioned....it's had the same issue since it's inception. What issue is that? You also mentioned that if they "don't care" about something...they remove it. Can you elaborate? What have they removed that leads you to say this? M.K. Knight165

Well I'm certainly not just making this up, I'm only echoing what I've seen written and posted on this forum alone by game officials. This philosophy of removing from the game what players might find important because it's not valuable to enough people.
That's a very narrow minded way of making decisions, for me.

Spring Training has always been pretty poor, with the least accurately managed AI I've played of any games preseason and remaining unimproved, unchanged every season. In the past, they did implement a certain position battle feature for ST to spice it up, only to remove for reasons I can only guess as to why. Spring Training, is almost dreadful to play while at the same inevitably it's one of the most important times of the year to nail down your 25 man roster or just evaluate players in general as the mode is intended. Seems not to be a death-defying thing to accomplish but remains ignored.

Spoiler

It's been said here before, that their point of giving spring training to users was for them to basically selective have a month of games to play and learn the controls until they were tired of it and ready to play real games. That's a passable excuse back in 2006 but it's inexcusable now and has been for a long time. There's alot, obviously, that goes into the way Spring Training is managed in and out of games, and this series is no where near satisfying any of that.

At the same time, EANHL has had the deepest preseason options I've ever seen, FIFA and all other sports titles has put a reasonably good effort into preseason modes. Madden has always put effort into preseason, but baseball which has the most relevant preseason of any sport can't deliver.

# 63 Jr. @ 03/17/15 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @legendm0de


	Well I'm certainly not just making this up, I'm only echoing what I've seen written and posted on this forum alone by game officials. This philosophy of removing from the game what players might find important because it's not valuable to enough people. That's a very narrow minded way of making decisions, for me. Spring Training has always been pretty poor, with the least accurately managed AI I've played of any games preseason and remaining unimproved, unchanged every season. In the past, they did implement a certain position battle feature for ST to spice it up, only to remove for reasons I can only guess as to why. Spring Training, is almost dreadful to play while at the same inevitably it's one of the most important times of the year to nail down your 25 man roster or just evaluate players in general as the mode is intended. Seems not to be a death-defying thing to accomplish but remains ignored. Spoiler For anyone that's played one Spring Training game, AI issues are easy to spot, 25 man roster players get 75 to 100 percent of the playing time every day. CPU pitchers are programmed to start 3 innings, and following them their next teammate in the 5 man rotation (ie Strasburg, followed by Max Sherzer in the 4th, etc). No measure has even been introduced to handle tie ballgames and extra innings. Overall, it's poorly programmed and in 2014 it was severely neglected for next gen which I also find inexcusable. It's been said here before, that their point of giving spring training to users was for them to basically selective have a month of games to play and learn the controls until they were tired of it and ready to play real games. That's a passable excuse back in 2006 but it's inexcusable now and has been for a long time. There's alot, obviously, that goes into the way Spring Training is managed in and out of games, and this series is no where near satisfying any of that. At the same time, EANHL has had the deepest preseason options I've ever seen, FIFA and all other sports titles has put a reasonably good effort into preseason modes. Madden has always put effort into preseason, but baseball which has the most relevant preseason of any sport can't deliver.

You didn't really answer his questions. People have stated the substitution issues are fixed (BTW, Madden has equally poor substitution issues in Pre-season and provides nothing substantial.. I haven't played FIFA or NHL).

You only mentioned position battles as something that was in and subsequently removed. If that's your only example.. one occurrence does not make a philosophy as you are claiming.

I certainly think Spring Training could be improved upon, but I seriously doubt they will remove it because some (maybe most) people don't play it.

# 64 HozAndMoose @ 03/17/15 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @legendm0de


	Well I'm certainly not just making this up, I'm only echoing what I've seen written and posted on this forum alone by game officials. This philosophy of removing from the game what players might find important because it's not valuable to enough people. That's a very narrow minded way of making decisions, for me. Spring Training has always been pretty poor, with the least accurately managed AI I've played of any games preseason and remaining unimproved, unchanged every season. In the past, they did implement a certain position battle feature for ST to spice it up, only to remove for reasons I can only guess as to why. Spring Training, is almost dreadful to play while at the same inevitably it's one of the most important times of the year to nail down your 25 man roster or just evaluate players in general as the mode is intended. Seems not to be a death-defying thing to accomplish but remains ignored. Spoiler For anyone that's played one Spring Training game, AI issues are easy to spot, 25 man roster players get 75 to 100 percent of the playing time every day. CPU pitchers are programmed to start 3 innings, and following them their next teammate in the 5 man rotation (ie Strasburg, followed by Max Sherzer in the 4th, etc). No measure has even been introduced to handle tie ballgames and extra innings. Overall, it's poorly programmed and in 2014 it was severely neglected for next gen which I also find inexcusable. It's been said here before, that their point of giving spring training to users was for them to basically selective have a month of games to play and learn the controls until they were tired of it and ready to play real games. That's a passable excuse back in 2006 but it's inexcusable now and has been for a long time. There's alot, obviously, that goes into the way Spring Training is managed in and out of games, and this series is no where near satisfying any of that. At the same time, EANHL has had the deepest preseason options I've ever seen, FIFA and all other sports titles has put a reasonably good effort into preseason modes. Madden has always put effort into preseason, but baseball which has the most relevant preseason of any sport can't deliver.

And yet you still didnt tell us what they have taken out of the game.

# 65 mlblover15 @ 03/17/15 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countryboy


	because it costs money to license the individual ballparks. The teams don't own the ballparks.

well if that is the case put in as many generic stadiums as needed to make it realistic. two stadiums per state is boring to say the least...

# 66 @legendm0de @ 03/17/15 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HozAndMoose


	And yet you still didnt tell us what they have taken out of the game.

I'm surprised that I even need, that has been well documented over the last two months, even the spokesperson has come here and owned up to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jr.


	You didn't really answer his questions. People have stated the substitution issues are fixed (BTW, Madden has equally poor substitution issues in Pre-season and provides nothing substantial.. I haven't played FIFA or NHL). You only mentioned position battles as something that was in and subsequently removed. If that's your only example.. one occurrence does not make a philosophy as you are claiming. I certainly think Spring Training could be improved upon, but I seriously doubt they will remove it because some (maybe most) people don't play it.

Again I'm surprised that you're asking what it is, I'm referring to as being removed from the game. Spring Training, which is the topic of this discussion, has never had anything in it to actually remove in the first place. I certainly wasn't referring to position battles as the crux of the problem, just an overview of their history with that mode. They did remove the little bit of CPU Intelligence they did possess completely from MLB 14 (ps4) so I was referring to that a little bit. Now we're supposed to be happy that, the same olde system of Spring Training at least has returned.

I haven't played madden since 2010 on a PS2, so all I really know is of their effort to make preseason somewhat relevant moreso than I've ever seen of MLB The Show. Anyhow, I was being mildly sarcastic suggesting they would scrap Spring Training because not enough players in the grand scheme even use it or care aside from some of us here presumably. But that is the same wisdom, they have admittedly used on this forum lately to explain why they have scrapped other facets of the game which are arguably even more important than Spring Training.

# 67 Knight165 @ 03/17/15 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jr.


	You didn't really answer his questions. People have stated the substitution issues are fixed (BTW, Madden has equally poor substitution issues in Pre-season and provides nothing substantial.. I haven't played FIFA or NHL). You only mentioned position battles as something that was in and subsequently removed. If that's your only example.. one occurrence does not make a philosophy as you are claiming. I certainly think Spring Training could be improved upon, but I seriously doubt they will remove it because some (maybe most) people don't play it.

As I suspected...he blowing smoke and blustering.
His "rule of the day" is BS......*never happened and that is NOT what Ramone said*
...and they did not REMOVE the CPU AI logic for swapping out players more in ST.....I can nearly guarantee that they just didn't "turn on" that logic in the ST and All-Star games and it got through testing. It was an oversight that he's trying to turn into a mountain(for other reasons my guess)

His point about the CPU(the game for that matter) not giving you access to your full organization is his only point that he's really right about but we've discussed that already so it's not earth shattering news.
As far as the CPU using mainly the 25 man roster....
1-You don't have to do that
2- Yes....we've covered that as something we'd like to see...but again...the CPU is going to choose it's top 25 players with set position parameters.....until they implement something that takes those last couple of spots and add in something that makes the CPU choose one or the other....it is kind of pointless right now.(something that YOU can still do as your team GM)

"dreadful" and "inexcusable"...c'mon that's a bit much.

-and not that it matters here....but I play all the games he mentioned....and I don't see what is better about those pre-season games. The decision making on those games is basically the same...pick the top players.

I have to ask.....how the heck does a young man who is 21 y.o. get so miserable over a video game?
Yikes.

M.K.
Knight165

# 68 Jr. @ 03/17/15 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @legendm0de


	I'm surprised that I even need, that has been well documented over the last two months, even the spokesperson has come here and owned up to it. Again I'm surprised that you're asking what it is, I'm referring to as being removed from the game. Spring Training, which is the topic of this discussion, has never had anything in it to actually remove in the first place. I certainly wasn't referring to position battles as the crux of the problem, just an overview of their history with that mode. They did remove the little bit of CPU Intelligence they did possess completely from MLB 14 (ps4) so I was referring to that a little bit. Now we're supposed to be happy that, the same olde system of Spring Training at least has returned.

So is the CPU substitution AI showing the "philosophy" of removing things that have been in the game?

You can be surprised that people are asking, but you still aren't mentioning what exactly has been removed. I can't remember anything of great significance that has been removed after being in the game, and I've been playing the game consistently since '10.

So please, enlighten those of us who do not know what you are referring to.

# 69 @legendm0de @ 03/17/15 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight165


	As I suspected...he blowing smoke and blustering. His "rule of the day" is BS......never happened and that is NOT what Ramone said ...and they did not REMOVE the CPU AI logic for swapping out players more in ST.....I can nearly guarantee that they just didn't "turn on" that logic in the ST and All-Star games and it got through testing. It was an oversight that he's trying to turn into a mountain(for other reasons my guess) His point about the CPU(the game for that matter) not giving you access to your full organization is his only point that he's really right about but we've discussed that already so it's not earth shattering news. As far as the CPU using mainly the 25 man roster.... 1-You don't have to do that 2- Yes....we've covered that as something we'd like to see...but again...the CPU is going to choose it's top 25 players with set position parameters.....until they implement something that takes those last couple of spots and add in something that makes the CPU choose one or the other....it is kind of pointless right now.(something that YOU can still do as your team GM) "dreadful" and "inexcusable"...c'mon that's a bit much. -and not that it matters here....but I play all the games he mentioned....and I don't see what is better about those pre-season games. The decision making on those games is basically the same...pick the top players. I have to ask.....how the heck does a young man who is 21 y.o. get so miserable over a video game? Yikes. M.K. Knight165

I know I can manage my own team however I want during Spring Training, but in the 9th inning of a 7-2 ballgame I'm losing, I decide to put my A ball pitcher on the mound only to still be forced to face Andrew Mccutcheon and the rest of a Pirates lineup. That just shows how much the AI of opposing management stands in the way of playing this mode. Unless you know of a way to solve that problem, that I'm just not aware of.

IMO, the only thing being blown out of proportion here is the quoting and context of what I've said. I'm not blowing smoke and raging,

Quote:


	Well I'm certainly not just making this up, I'm only echoing what I've seen written and posted on this forum alone by game officials.

I do find ST dreadful certainly on the only PS4 version of the game out right now, MLB 14, where they have inexcusably neglected the mode for whatever reason. I'm sure they did have a legitimate reason, and it's no surprise they have fixed in for 2015. It would only be a surprise if they had not. However, this just does highlight the overall neglect for ST that has reached nearly 10 years now with no one held responsible for it.

Preseason in other games, don't have nearly the same problem I see with Spring Training here because they all are built to basically evaluate alternative players and strategies with every team. The philosophy here has been well documented that they only view this mode as a way for players to get some practice games in so they can learn controls get in a groove and start playing real games. I'm tired of that approach, but there is no sign they are willing to change it. Based on the pattern I've observed, Spring Training is one of the last things at the bottom of their list to really pay attention to.

# 70 @legendm0de @ 03/17/15 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jr.


	So is the CPU substitution AI showing the "philosophy" of removing things that have been in the game? You can be surprised that people are asking, but you still aren't mentioning what exactly has been removed. I can't remember anything of great significance that has been removed after being in the game, and I've been playing the game consistently since '10. So please, enlighten those of us who do not know what you are referring to.

to make this short, I'll just answer you with a no and a facepalm.

give me more credit than to be this shallow, that I'd link one spring training oversight from 2014' with such a claim.

I hope I don't have to legitimize anymore suggestions like this with another response.

# 71 redsox4evur @ 03/17/15 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @legendm0de


	I know I can manage my own team however I want during Spring Training, but in the 9th inning of a 7-2 ballgame I'm losing, I decide to put my A ball pitcher on the mound only to still be forced to face Andrew Mccutcheon and the rest of a Pirates lineup. That just shows how much the AI of opposing management stands in the way of playing this mode. Unless you know of a way to solve that problem, that I'm just not aware of.

I'm aware of a way to solve that problem. Just wait for MLB 15 to come out. It has been addressed and fixed. As I posted last night Woodweaver, a dev for MLB, said that he is aware this issue has been corrected. So just drop this point, it's been addressed for the upcoming game.

# 72 Jr. @ 03/17/15 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @legendm0de


	to make this short, I'll just answer you with a no and a facepalm. give me more credit than to be this shallow, that I'd link one spring training oversight from 2014' with such a claim. I hope I don't have to legitimize anymore suggestions like this with another response.

This is about what I figured. I keep asking for examples that show a "philosophy" of removing features that people apparently don't utilize, and you refuse to give them.

I'm only referring to what you've listed. But I know to ignore your posts now because you seem to have some kind of agenda against the game, rather than providing legitimate examples of what you're referring to.

Have a good one

# 73 redsox4evur @ 03/17/15 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jr.


	This is about what I figured. I keep asking for examples that show a "philosophy" of removing features that people apparently don't utilize, and you refuse to give them. I'm only referring to what you've listed. But I know to ignore your posts now because you seem to have some kind of agenda against the game, rather than providing legitimate examples of what you're referring to. Have a good one

The only one I can think of is analog hitting from last year, but that wasn't even removed completely but changed.

# 74 @legendm0de @ 03/17/15 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jr.


	This is about what I figured. I keep asking for examples that show a "philosophy" of removing features that people apparently don't utilize, and you refuse to give them. I'm only referring to what you've listed. But I know to ignore your posts now because you seem to have some kind of agenda against the game, rather than providing legitimate examples of what you're referring to. Have a good one

Well Jr. instead of emboldening 2 sentences of my two paragraphs post, why don't you try emboldening the entire two paragraphs and maybe it's possible you missed something.

edit

wow.. Agenda against the game ?

For all the blasphemy I'm accused of hurling, this is the most (probably only) blasphemous thing posted in the entire discussion. My only "agenda toward this game" is for it to become COMPLETE and avoid going backwards.

# 75 VinceJulien14 @ 03/17/15 01:50 PM

NHL doesn't even have a preseason anymore lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

# 76 @legendm0de @ 03/17/15 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox4evur


	I'm aware of a way to solve that problem. Just wait for MLB 15 to come out. It has been addressed and fixed. As I posted last night Woodweaver, a dev for MLB, said that he is aware this issue has been corrected. So just drop this point, it's been addressed for the upcoming game.

I'm aware, they've restored ST substitutions in later innings. Again, as I posted earlier, it would only be a surprise if they did not. I still find it inexcusable that they allowed MLB 14 to come out with that issue in place especially after making us wait until May to play it.

Even with that, it doesn't fix the lacking effort put into Spring Training in the first place if all they did was restore the same system we've had in place since 2006.

Again I just say, the ST is one of those things they are not interested in. And it shows with 1) the lack of improvements made to the mode in nearly a decade) and 2) allowing 2014 to completely sack the mode by not working out something to avoid it's issues.

It speaks to their overall pattern/philosophy (however you want to describe it) that if they feel some element of the game is not big ticket enough they will neglect it or remove it.

They have removed facets of the game away since 2012 and they are only continuing. They've even admitted to doing so, but I'm the one being asked to prove what has been removed from the game. That's an entirely different thread worth of material to express.

# 77 LastActionHero @ 03/17/15 02:16 PM

This is the most unconclusive discussion ever. I feel like I'm waking up to the same question and reply over and over...

# 78 bronxbombers21325 @ 03/17/15 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @legendm0de


	do you play spring training, anyone who does has a reason to be miserable at times. but more to my point, this franchise has been making a series of "neglectful" decisions over the last couple of years. My criticism is warranted, not sour grapes, even though I know its daring to critique this franchise because it's easy to get blinded with what things they do provide.

I'm 31 years old, will be 32 in three months. I started playing video games when I was 5. I can honesly say that I have never played a game that was important enough to me to make me miserable. If life was simple enough for a video game to make us miserable, then we would all have pretty easy lives. Video games are supposed to help us escape reality, and have a little fun for a few hours at a time. Here is a little tip from someone older than you. You are 21 years old and in the prime of your life, enjoy yourself, and don't let something as simple as a video game make you miserable. Trust me, you'll look back one day and regret that.

# 79 MetsFan16 @ 03/17/15 05:18 PM

I usually sim the entire Spring but I set my lineups before the spring starts and I take all of my Major League guys who i know will be on the big team and sit them on the bench. Then I put all of the prospects and young minor leaguers who are on the 40 man and put them all in the lineup. Same with the rotation, my 5 guys are set to the extra relievers so they do not pitch and all of the prospects are set to pitch each game. At the end of the spring, I look through the lineups to see all of my prospects stats and see who got hot and who struggled. This helps decide who gets the opening day call up and who starts at which level.

# 80 countryboy @ 03/17/15 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by @legendm0de


	do you play spring training, anyone who does has a reason to be miserable at times. but more to my point, this franchise has been making a series of "neglectful" decisions over the last couple of years. My criticism is warranted, not sour grapes, even though I know its daring to critique this franchise because it's easy to get blinded with what things they do provide.

Yes I do play Spring Training and no I do not ever feel miserable while playing it. While your criticism is certainly warranted as it is your opinion, to make snarky remarks about them removing something instead of fixing it is simply baiting people to get into a back and forth with you, which I'll respectfully decline to do.

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