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Fact or Fiction: Madden 12 Demo Edition
Madden plays better on the slow setting.

Caley Roark: Fact. The slow setting is my preference as it seems to give the players more weight and heft, as well as highlight a player's individual talents (if the "threshold" slider is tweaked).

Christian McLeod: Fact and Fiction. This is actually a loaded question in my mind. Last year, Madden played far too slow in my opinion on the default slow setting. While playing at E3 on the default setting, the game speed felt like a dream come true, seamlessly mixing the fluid animations typically seen on the slow setting with just enough of a speed infusion to keep the game from feeling sluggish. I even commented to an EA developer at the event about how good the game felt. The developer's comment to me was that the team felt last year's game speed was a bit too slow, hence the change to this year's default speed.

Fast forward to the demo's release and now we have a default normal game speed that feels even faster than NCAA 12's, which now just leaves me scratching my head. After tinkering with the demo's options, I found that the slow game speed in the demo played closer to the default speed I played at E3, yet it still felt a tad bit sluggish. The E3 version of the game was by far the best speed I've experienced in an EA football title to date.

So the only way to formally answer this question is to draw a comparison to one of the greatest fairy tales ever told (this is what happens to your brain when you have a kid). Last year's slow gameplay was too sluggish; this year's normal gameplay in the demo is too fast; and the E3 build's normal game speed was just right. Here's hoping the retail build of the game returns the game speed to the latter because I will spend a lot of time in that house, hopefully with some free porridge.

Dustin Toms: Fact and Fiction. I have to agree with Christian on this one. The slow setting is nice, but it's not the best route to take. With adjustable game speeds last year, Madden made a huge step forward. It made the game more playable and made it darn near impossible to go back to NCAA 11's super fast gameplay.

I hate it when I feel like my halfback can keep up with Sonic the Hedgehog. However, Christian has discussed how he felt the game speed was better in the E3 build, so that keeps my hopes high. Nevertheless, in the demo we need a perfect middle point between slow and fast.

Caley had this to say about the Madden 12 demo in our recent roundtable: "It doesn't feel like NFL football to me -- just an upgraded version of Madden that we have been playing for years." Caley provide some context for this statement because you obviously think this is fact -- you said it after all.

Caley: Fact (duh). I said in the roundtable that this demo "doesn't feel like NFL football to me -- just an upgraded version of Madden that we have been playing for years." I also know turning the speed setting to "slow" may seem counterintuitive, seeing as how the NFL is a fast game. I just feel like what's here, regardless of sliders or speed setting, feels like another iteration of the same game we have been playing for years now, a game not entirely representative of its actual sport.

For instance, a screen play in the NFL seems to happen relatively quickly. They are one of my favorite plays because of how fluid and organic they can be, and the fact that everyone on the field seems to be involved. In Madden -- and NCAA, to be fair -- it seems that if the QB doesn't drop back an unnatural amount of yards, he is either sacked or forced to pass before the play develops. And by "develops," I mean the halfback and the linemen need to find their spots, turn around, sort of stand there for a while and avoid any coverage that has seemingly joined the new flash mob on one side of the field. Screen plays in Madden can be fun, but they just don't look or feel quite like the real thing. The same, for me, can be said of play action, deep balls, pitches, etc.

Christian: Fiction. I don't agree with this sentiment. First and foremost, you are playing a video game with players dictated by programming AI. Because of this simple fact, there is always going to be something that feels or looks "off" in the video game. Nevertheless, saying the game doesn't feel like NFL football is a stretch. It's not like Madden 12 plays like NFL Blitz or even Tecmo Bowl for that matter. Sure, there is always room for realistic improvement, but Madden does a pretty good job capturing what NFL Sundays are all about.

Dustin: Fiction. What Christian said about Caley's comments are pretty in line with my views. When I play games, I expect to play a video game not to experience what it would be like to step into Tom Brady's shoes. I know it won't be 100 percent realistic, but EA does a damn good job letting us control and play as our favorite teams and players. Games like Madden Arcade and Blitz are games that appeal to a different set of gamers. I never once felt like I was in the NFL running down the sidelines as a Hot Dog man in Blitz. But when I break open a 60-yard touchdown run with Chris Johnson, it gives me the feeling of 'that could really happen this weekend' or 'I really just took it to the house with CJ.' Everyone has their own opinion of a perfect game, and with Madden there are always going to be obvious improvements. Perfection is the greatest goal to have, but unfortunately it will never be achieved.

The demo is a positive sign for Madden 12.

Caley: Fact. However, I'm not sure it's the gameplay as much as the advertising regarding the additions to Franchise mode. As primarily an offline player, I think this mode got some needed attention. Is it all it could be, or once was? Certainly not, but if the little things -- roster cuts, dynamic attributes, tendencies -- pan out, I think it will be the best Madden Franchise mode of this generation.

Christian: Fact. It's no big secret that Madden has struggled mightily the past five years, and the positive buzz surrounding the Madden demo is a great indicator that this game is going to be big. Let's just put it this way, I actually received some pretty harsh criticism in our forums and via Twitter for being "too hard" on the Madden demo, a first in my three years writing here at OS. If our rabid fans call me out for being too hard on a Madden game, EA is definitely doing something right.

Dustin: Fact. Remember how most everyone loved the NCAA 12 demo? Remember how the retail version was much better than that demo? Madden is only going to truly impress once the game actually comes out. With a solid demo showcasing the improved graphics, animations, fluidity and overlays, Madden gamers should not be ashamed to be crossing off the dates on their calendar until Madden 12 is released.

The presentation is finally where it should be in a top tier football title.

Caley: Fiction. I know our readers don't always enjoy it when we compare sports titles, but NBA 2K11 is an example of what presentation should be in this day and age. Despite the graphical upgrades, new cameras and flyovers, Madden is still way behind what's been done in other sports games when it comes to commentary, replays and highlight packages.

In other words, the TV-broadcast presentation portfolio has still not quite come together. Just look at the dynamic commentary in NBA 2K11 or MLB 2K11. Football has a fraction of the games on its schedule, yet I don't expect to here Collinsworth mentioning upcoming games or playoff implications in this year's title.

Christian: Fiction. Like Caley said, I know some folks don't like comparisons, and I especially hate using this example, but if NFL 2K5 was able to give us deep halftime and weekly highlight shows, complete with highlights from across the league, there is no excuse to not see these presentational features in a game like Madden 12. The new camera angles, banners and introductions are a great start, but until broadcast replays, graphical breakdowns and highlight shows are added, I can't say presentation is where it should be.

Dustin: Fiction. It's nice going third here because now I don't even have to bring up games from the past. All I have to say is the "bar" for presentation was set years ago. It's time to set it again.

The passing game is the weakest part of the gameplay.

Caley: Fact. From my breakdown of screen plays to the spotty play action to hypersonic QBs, there are too many problems in the passing game (at least in the demo). I hope these are fixed either in the final build or through a patch. If these elements are not corrected, a huge part of the game is going to be problematic.

Christian: Fiction. Yes, other games have done passing trajectories and control bettter, but the passing in the Madden 12 demo is no slouch. Money routes seem to be toned down, CPU defensive backs lack the psychic coverage abilities we've seen in past games, and ball release speed/trajectory does seem improved over the recently released NCAA 12. With that being said, I think it is extremely difficult to make a final judgment of this nature on any aspect of the game because the demo is an older build and definitely lacks the polish I saw in the E3 build. Ask me this question again once I get the final retail copy in my hands.

Dustin: Fact. I'm going to be the contrarian here. Yes, there are problems in the gameplay beyond the passing game, but my frustration with passing is starting to get to the point of no return. As Caley mentioned, play action is mostly useless. Half the time your quarterback does not even have time to get in his stance and look for an open receiver. The offensive line doesn't hold blocks half the time, resulting in even more sacks. This is not a big deal for some, but it can really alter stats and results in unfair ways.

Other than the passing game, zone coverage is pretty weak, too. I feel like the majority of the gameplay issues that Madden and NCAA have are quite similar, so it makes me wonder if it's just a tough task to actually get things put in the game. But, again, this is just a demo. NCAA 12 surprised the hell out of me, so let's hope Madden does the same.


Madden NFL 12 Videos
Member Comments
# 1 Bryzine21 @ 08/22/11 05:29 PM
Madden always comes through in the final product as far as I am concerned. Very good demo=great retail version.
 
# 2 guaps @ 08/22/11 06:04 PM
While all have their valid points, I agree most with Caley.

The Madden 12 demo is the best Madden demo I've tried on this generation of consoles and I also believe it plays best on slow, but it doesn't feel like football to me either. I'm especially annoyed by the passing game and the way the new zone coverage interacts with the running game (plus all the other stuff that Madden usually doesn't get quite right, e.g. special teams and OL/DL interaction).
 
# 3 roadman @ 08/22/11 06:11 PM
A mixed bag of opinions, which is good.
 
# 4 Xotros @ 08/22/11 06:21 PM
Agreed about passing. Defensive players sliding into interceptions kills the passing game and realism.
 
# 5 DeuceDouglas @ 08/22/11 06:43 PM
I honestly never understood the complete infatuation people have for the halftime and weekly highlight shows. From the very little I ever played of that game I maybe watched it the first couple times and then kept skipping it. I'm positive that I'm in the minority here but of all the things I'd like to see added to madden, highlight shows are near the bottom of my list.
 
# 6 Broncos86 @ 08/22/11 07:18 PM
Always a polarizing topic, really. And "Madden feeling like Madden" is not necessarily a bad thing. Tecmo Bowl feels like Tecmo Bowl, and it worked well for the franchise.
 
# 7 Hooe @ 08/22/11 07:19 PM
I thin the presentation will really be held back tremendously by the outdated commentary system that the game uses, but even with that what EA added this year is a tremendous step in the right direction for the Madden series. I'm looking forward to this game.
 
# 8 statum71 @ 08/22/11 07:22 PM
(Presentation being where it needs to be question)


I think EA did good in improving this year. I love the new camera angles and all.......but all three of these guys hit the nail dead on its head in these answers.
 
# 9 Broncos86 @ 08/22/11 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHooe
I thin the presentation will really be held back tremendously by the outdated commentary system that the game uses, but even with that what EA added this year is a tremendous step in the right direction for the Madden series. I'm looking forward to this game.
I always turn off commentary anyways. I like to do play by play in my head.
 
# 10 bukktown @ 08/22/11 08:02 PM
"The passing game is the weakest part of the gameplay."

Fiction.....................It is the underdeveloped dynamic that happens when pass blockers and pass rushers make contact with each other.
 
# 11 rudyjuly2 @ 08/22/11 08:04 PM
I don't think it's fair to trash the commentary as part of the presentation until you get the retail version. I think the presentation is pretty good and a nice step forward.

I like the Slow version of the demo. The players feel and move really nice at that speed. It feels a lot smoother than NCAA.

Passing feels good although EA really needs to add route based passing if they want to make it more realistic. It will open up the outside passing plays.

The demo is certainly a really good step in the right direction. I'm trying to keep my expectations down but this could be the first Madden in a long time that I play significantly.
 
# 12 BlackJackRabbit @ 08/22/11 08:05 PM
I agree that the commentary, replays, highlights, and halftime show needs work, but for the life of me, I can't understand why they keep saying that playaction is semi-useless. If you set it up, especially if you base it off of a routinely successful running play , it's effective.
 
# 13 schnaidt1 @ 08/22/11 08:12 PM
when he said he was crazy impressed with ncaa 12 from demo to final build.....was he high?? all the issues with ncaa 12..including psychic db's all the super linebackers. cpu knowing what ur calling, no blocking for play action passing. and hb screens always being sniffed out by the cpu...

what exactly where u impressed with?

ncaa 12 is unplayable for me.

kinda wanna go back to ncaa 11
 
# 14 RumbleStud @ 08/22/11 08:35 PM
Demo was good, Retail will be better. Gameplay improvements will make Madden 12 the best this gen so far and I don't give 2 sh*ts about the commentary just keep improving the offensive and defensive play on the field and I'm good.
 
# 15 crob8822 @ 08/22/11 11:20 PM
All I can say is next tuesday is madden holiday, there will be alot of empty cubicles, upset co-workers because they will have to cover.
And we (the Madden players) will be in video football bliss.
 
# 16 TheTodd84 @ 08/23/11 12:02 AM
All I can say is that there is just one, simple solution to a lot, if not all, of these issues. Real-time physics. It doesn't have to be rag doll or anything like that, but just the feeling of momentum and weight and things happening realistically. Fifa and NBA 2k12 are improving their collision systems by adding physics, so why can't madden and NCAA? This would make the game infinitely more realistic without really altering the system or the player models. This NEEDS to be implemented. And immediately.

The passing game is a borderline game-killer with the superhuman LBs in full effect and jumping up to make plays they would never, ever make in real life. The issue with that is partially because the trajectory of the football on passing plays is way off. It is almost impossible to throw the ball over a linebacker in between a safety without lobbing the ball and allowing the safety to catch up.

Until these two things are addressed, this game will never reach its full potential and will never feel like what you see on sundays, like caley said.
 
# 17 statum71 @ 08/23/11 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionMaximus
(s38s38s @ 08/22/11 03:59 PM)
The presentation is far from what sets the standard for me, which is NFL 2K5. Game was $20 dollars, and was the most impressive game I've played from a presentation stand-point, it's almost become mythic in the sense younger gamers can't appreciate good presentation because they never experienced something as deep as 2K5's.

I 100% agree with this. The detail and presentation was and still is unrivaled to this day. I remember (to my astonishment) after a penalty I could do a replay and actually see the penalty that was committed be it a facemask, clipping, or holding call. But back on topic I really am looking forward to this years madden I believe it will be the best madden to date.
I can only imagine a combination of the way Madden has improved with the CBS-like camera angles, intros and presentation......coupled with NFL 2K5's: start with host in the studio presenting the matchup, Halftime Show with narrated highlights, and post game wrapup back in studio.

Oh.....and NCAA's custom music feature. So I can add my Fox NFL Sunday and NFL on CBS pregame music.

Now, if we ever see THAT Madden..... I could lose my job. (figure of speech of course)
 
# 18 FlyBri @ 08/23/11 05:21 AM
Madden is finally getting to be at least playable for me, starting with last year, but to me it still needs a ways to go. Things still feel "forced" to me, and not natural. Tackling, while definitely improved, still doesn't feel as realistic as NFL2K5 (yes, I'm going there as well). Maybe EA should hire (or buy, knowing them) NaturalMotion, and use their engine for the physics. BackBreaker may not have been great, but the physics definitely were. And as other people said, the presentation on NFL2K5 was just out of this world. I still am yearning for the same level of ESPN integration in a game. Having Chris Berman do the weekly highlight reel in real time with all his catchphrases was just unbelievable. It's 7 years later and I'm still waiting...WTF?

You're getting their Madden, but you're taking your damn sweet time doing so...
 
# 19 Deelron @ 08/23/11 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph999
presentation will never be updated without competition its that simple.
It was just updated without any competition. Does it still have a ways to go? Probably but it was clearly updated.
 
# 20 Armor and Sword @ 08/23/11 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph999
presentation will never be updated without competition its that simple.

Sigh.

Please. Stop it. Can we please...please not allow another good discussion about Madden fall into this trap of "if they had competition" "Well 2K did this".

Enough. It is so friggin old, tired. And cliche.


I am not a mod but I felt compelled to post this. Because it will turn into a 50 page back and forth rant of the same old tired BS.


Let's just talk about Madden 12. That is the only NFL game with any relevance. That is the reality.

Yes the presentation is still a work in progress. However the demo has given me a nice glimpse of finally getting a TV style broadcast. I love the new camera angles. So far so good.

The next step is dynamic commentary and a more robust halftime, and franchise weekly show. And of course a balls to wall NFL draft presentation package.

As far as gameplay I am very giddy about 12. I think the game feels great.

And the new franchise enhancements are going to make this game the best Madden ever (that is my hope).

Judgement day is coming soon!

Peace.
 

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