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Fact or Fiction: Madden 12 Demo Edition
Madden plays better on the slow setting.

Caley Roark: Fact. The slow setting is my preference as it seems to give the players more weight and heft, as well as highlight a player's individual talents (if the "threshold" slider is tweaked).

Christian McLeod: Fact and Fiction. This is actually a loaded question in my mind. Last year, Madden played far too slow in my opinion on the default slow setting. While playing at E3 on the default setting, the game speed felt like a dream come true, seamlessly mixing the fluid animations typically seen on the slow setting with just enough of a speed infusion to keep the game from feeling sluggish. I even commented to an EA developer at the event about how good the game felt. The developer's comment to me was that the team felt last year's game speed was a bit too slow, hence the change to this year's default speed.

Fast forward to the demo's release and now we have a default normal game speed that feels even faster than NCAA 12's, which now just leaves me scratching my head. After tinkering with the demo's options, I found that the slow game speed in the demo played closer to the default speed I played at E3, yet it still felt a tad bit sluggish. The E3 version of the game was by far the best speed I've experienced in an EA football title to date.

So the only way to formally answer this question is to draw a comparison to one of the greatest fairy tales ever told (this is what happens to your brain when you have a kid). Last year's slow gameplay was too sluggish; this year's normal gameplay in the demo is too fast; and the E3 build's normal game speed was just right. Here's hoping the retail build of the game returns the game speed to the latter because I will spend a lot of time in that house, hopefully with some free porridge.

Dustin Toms: Fact and Fiction. I have to agree with Christian on this one. The slow setting is nice, but it's not the best route to take. With adjustable game speeds last year, Madden made a huge step forward. It made the game more playable and made it darn near impossible to go back to NCAA 11's super fast gameplay.

I hate it when I feel like my halfback can keep up with Sonic the Hedgehog. However, Christian has discussed how he felt the game speed was better in the E3 build, so that keeps my hopes high. Nevertheless, in the demo we need a perfect middle point between slow and fast.

Caley had this to say about the Madden 12 demo in our recent roundtable: "It doesn't feel like NFL football to me -- just an upgraded version of Madden that we have been playing for years." Caley provide some context for this statement because you obviously think this is fact -- you said it after all.

Caley: Fact (duh). I said in the roundtable that this demo "doesn't feel like NFL football to me -- just an upgraded version of Madden that we have been playing for years." I also know turning the speed setting to "slow" may seem counterintuitive, seeing as how the NFL is a fast game. I just feel like what's here, regardless of sliders or speed setting, feels like another iteration of the same game we have been playing for years now, a game not entirely representative of its actual sport.

For instance, a screen play in the NFL seems to happen relatively quickly. They are one of my favorite plays because of how fluid and organic they can be, and the fact that everyone on the field seems to be involved. In Madden -- and NCAA, to be fair -- it seems that if the QB doesn't drop back an unnatural amount of yards, he is either sacked or forced to pass before the play develops. And by "develops," I mean the halfback and the linemen need to find their spots, turn around, sort of stand there for a while and avoid any coverage that has seemingly joined the new flash mob on one side of the field. Screen plays in Madden can be fun, but they just don't look or feel quite like the real thing. The same, for me, can be said of play action, deep balls, pitches, etc.

Christian: Fiction. I don't agree with this sentiment. First and foremost, you are playing a video game with players dictated by programming AI. Because of this simple fact, there is always going to be something that feels or looks "off" in the video game. Nevertheless, saying the game doesn't feel like NFL football is a stretch. It's not like Madden 12 plays like NFL Blitz or even Tecmo Bowl for that matter. Sure, there is always room for realistic improvement, but Madden does a pretty good job capturing what NFL Sundays are all about.

Dustin: Fiction. What Christian said about Caley's comments are pretty in line with my views. When I play games, I expect to play a video game not to experience what it would be like to step into Tom Brady's shoes. I know it won't be 100 percent realistic, but EA does a damn good job letting us control and play as our favorite teams and players. Games like Madden Arcade and Blitz are games that appeal to a different set of gamers. I never once felt like I was in the NFL running down the sidelines as a Hot Dog man in Blitz. But when I break open a 60-yard touchdown run with Chris Johnson, it gives me the feeling of 'that could really happen this weekend' or 'I really just took it to the house with CJ.' Everyone has their own opinion of a perfect game, and with Madden there are always going to be obvious improvements. Perfection is the greatest goal to have, but unfortunately it will never be achieved.

The demo is a positive sign for Madden 12.

Caley: Fact. However, I'm not sure it's the gameplay as much as the advertising regarding the additions to Franchise mode. As primarily an offline player, I think this mode got some needed attention. Is it all it could be, or once was? Certainly not, but if the little things -- roster cuts, dynamic attributes, tendencies -- pan out, I think it will be the best Madden Franchise mode of this generation.

Christian: Fact. It's no big secret that Madden has struggled mightily the past five years, and the positive buzz surrounding the Madden demo is a great indicator that this game is going to be big. Let's just put it this way, I actually received some pretty harsh criticism in our forums and via Twitter for being "too hard" on the Madden demo, a first in my three years writing here at OS. If our rabid fans call me out for being too hard on a Madden game, EA is definitely doing something right.

Dustin: Fact. Remember how most everyone loved the NCAA 12 demo? Remember how the retail version was much better than that demo? Madden is only going to truly impress once the game actually comes out. With a solid demo showcasing the improved graphics, animations, fluidity and overlays, Madden gamers should not be ashamed to be crossing off the dates on their calendar until Madden 12 is released.

The presentation is finally where it should be in a top tier football title.

Caley: Fiction. I know our readers don't always enjoy it when we compare sports titles, but NBA 2K11 is an example of what presentation should be in this day and age. Despite the graphical upgrades, new cameras and flyovers, Madden is still way behind what's been done in other sports games when it comes to commentary, replays and highlight packages.

In other words, the TV-broadcast presentation portfolio has still not quite come together. Just look at the dynamic commentary in NBA 2K11 or MLB 2K11. Football has a fraction of the games on its schedule, yet I don't expect to here Collinsworth mentioning upcoming games or playoff implications in this year's title.

Christian: Fiction. Like Caley said, I know some folks don't like comparisons, and I especially hate using this example, but if NFL 2K5 was able to give us deep halftime and weekly highlight shows, complete with highlights from across the league, there is no excuse to not see these presentational features in a game like Madden 12. The new camera angles, banners and introductions are a great start, but until broadcast replays, graphical breakdowns and highlight shows are added, I can't say presentation is where it should be.

Dustin: Fiction. It's nice going third here because now I don't even have to bring up games from the past. All I have to say is the "bar" for presentation was set years ago. It's time to set it again.

The passing game is the weakest part of the gameplay.

Caley: Fact. From my breakdown of screen plays to the spotty play action to hypersonic QBs, there are too many problems in the passing game (at least in the demo). I hope these are fixed either in the final build or through a patch. If these elements are not corrected, a huge part of the game is going to be problematic.

Christian: Fiction. Yes, other games have done passing trajectories and control bettter, but the passing in the Madden 12 demo is no slouch. Money routes seem to be toned down, CPU defensive backs lack the psychic coverage abilities we've seen in past games, and ball release speed/trajectory does seem improved over the recently released NCAA 12. With that being said, I think it is extremely difficult to make a final judgment of this nature on any aspect of the game because the demo is an older build and definitely lacks the polish I saw in the E3 build. Ask me this question again once I get the final retail copy in my hands.

Dustin: Fact. I'm going to be the contrarian here. Yes, there are problems in the gameplay beyond the passing game, but my frustration with passing is starting to get to the point of no return. As Caley mentioned, play action is mostly useless. Half the time your quarterback does not even have time to get in his stance and look for an open receiver. The offensive line doesn't hold blocks half the time, resulting in even more sacks. This is not a big deal for some, but it can really alter stats and results in unfair ways.

Other than the passing game, zone coverage is pretty weak, too. I feel like the majority of the gameplay issues that Madden and NCAA have are quite similar, so it makes me wonder if it's just a tough task to actually get things put in the game. But, again, this is just a demo. NCAA 12 surprised the hell out of me, so let's hope Madden does the same.


Madden NFL 12 Videos
Member Comments
# 21 DeuceDouglas @ 08/23/11 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBri
Madden is finally getting to be at least playable for me, starting with last year, but to me it still needs a ways to go. Things still feel "forced" to me, and not natural. Tackling, while definitely improved, still doesn't feel as realistic as NFL2K5 (yes, I'm going there as well). Maybe EA should hire (or buy, knowing them) NaturalMotion, and use their engine for the physics. BackBreaker may not have been great, but the physics definitely were. And as other people said, the presentation on NFL2K5 was just out of this world. I still am yearning for the same level of ESPN integration in a game. Having Chris Berman do the weekly highlight reel in real time with all his catchphrases was just unbelievable. It's 7 years later and I'm still waiting...WTF?

You're getting their Madden, but you're taking your damn sweet time doing so...
What are you waiting for? You already have it. If you want your halftime show and weekly highlight show with Chris Berman, you already have it. Go fire up your XBOX or PS2, update the rosters and be happy with it. Channeling my inner Allen Iverson, "We're talking about Madden. Not 2k. Not 2k. Madden. We're talking about Madden." Madden will never be 2k and 2k will never be Madden.
 
# 22 RumbleStud @ 08/23/11 10:07 AM
7 days boys. And there's nothing wrong with the passing over LBs. The people that complain about this most (I used to be one of them) are people that only throw the ball 2 different ways, Bullet. or Lob. And believe me there's touch passing in the game and you either haven't learn it or just don't have it and never will.
 
# 23 TheTodd84 @ 08/23/11 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyBri
Madden is finally getting to be at least playable for me, starting with last year, but to me it still needs a ways to go. Things still feel "forced" to me, and not natural. Tackling, while definitely improved, still doesn't feel as realistic as NFL2K5 (yes, I'm going there as well). Maybe EA should hire (or buy, knowing them) NaturalMotion, and use their engine for the physics. BackBreaker may not have been great, but the physics definitely were. And as other people said, the presentation on NFL2K5 was just out of this world. I still am yearning for the same level of ESPN integration in a game. Having Chris Berman do the weekly highlight reel in real time with all his catchphrases was just unbelievable. It's 7 years later and I'm still waiting...WTF?

You're getting their Madden, but you're taking your damn sweet time doing so...
Couldn't have said it better myself. This has been repeatedly asked for year after year. Yet, no response from EA. They won't even address the issue on any of these forums. It's a shame really. I can tell you, though, I will not be buying an EA sports game at release ever again. And I especially won't be buying it until either there are 2 or 3 patches and tuner sets are out, or this thing called physics is installed in their games. I will not be buying madden for weeks, and even then, I may not, depending on the issues I hear about.

But FlyBri, they really should utilize the naturalmotion physics. It really is the only thing they can do to save this turd of an engine at this point. Everything else has been tried and has failed miserably.
 
# 24 Broncos86 @ 08/23/11 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarCityBandit
This slow versus normal debate is ABSURD. The ONLY way Madden gives you any semblance of a "Real NFL Experience" is by playing on VERY FAST. It is the only way to see the amazing job EA did with this game.
 
# 25 BlackJackRabbit @ 08/23/11 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deelron
It was just updated without any competition. Does it still have a ways to go? Probably but it was clearly updated.
Improved and updated aren't synonyms. EA made the presentation better, but it's not up to the standards of the other sports titles of today, so it's not up to date. That's was updating is. It's the process of bringing something up to date. When that process is finished, then it's updated.

If there was competition, the presentation ( as well as other elements) would be much further along than it is currently.
 
# 26 STLRams @ 08/23/11 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionMaximus
(s38s38s @ 08/22/11 03:59 PM)
The presentation is far from what sets the standard for me, which is NFL 2K5. Game was $20 dollars, and was the most impressive game I've played from a presentation stand-point, it's almost become mythic in the sense younger gamers can't appreciate good presentation because they never experienced something as deep as 2K5's.

I 100% agree with this. The detail and presentation was and still is unrivaled to this day. I remember (to my astonishment) after a penalty I could do a replay and actually see the penalty that was committed be it a facemask, clipping, or holding call. But back on topic I really am looking forward to this years madden I believe it will be the best madden to date.
I remember in 2K5 that the game would automatically sometimes do a instant replay of the penalty that took place. Its small stuff like that that Madden has to add to the feel of realism and presentation in there football game. I will admit the presentation in the Madden demo is good, and it seems to be headed in the right direction, but for Madden13, there can't be anymore excuses of the presentation not being upto par or better than NFL2K5, NBA2K11, MLB The Show.
 
# 27 statum71 @ 08/23/11 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarCityBandit
This slow versus normal debate is ABSURD. The ONLY way Madden gives you any semblance of a "Real NFL Experience" is by playing on VERY FAST. It is the only way to see the amazing job EA did with this game.
Disagree.

"Very fast" feels more like Mario Bros. than football.
 
# 28 Mike Smoove @ 08/23/11 04:19 PM
The weakest part of the game has to be either the o-line d-line interaction, or the lack of animations period. Not enough catching animations, everybody has the same run animations. Animations are still a bit stiff and robotic. QB play action animations are terrible. Line interaction is pretty much a stand still. And for some reason the defender always seems to toss the blocker to the side as soon as the ball carrier is coming up to pass the block. These are my weakest parts of the game would also include lack of footplanting.
 
# 29 DeuceDouglas @ 08/23/11 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky60
We are talking about Madden, and where it could be improved. Try and keep up.
Maybe the bold and colors will help you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceDouglas
What are you waiting for? You already have it. If you want your halftime show and weekly highlight show with Chris Berman, you already have it. Go fire up your XBOX or PS2, update the rosters and be happy with it. Channeling my inner Allen Iverson, "We're talking about Madden. Not 2k. Not 2k. Madden. We're talking about Madden." Madden will never be 2k and 2k will never be Madden.
 
# 30 turftickler @ 08/23/11 11:06 PM
Nuff said in this video. Period. This is not a sway by any means. Please make up your own minds.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TrueSimGamer?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/K7mGG0rO6fc
 
# 31 roadman @ 08/23/11 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turftickler
Nuff said in this video. Period. This is not a sway by any means. Please make up your own minds.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TrueSimG.../0/K7mGG0rO6fc
Already have, thanks.
 
# 32 mirrored32 @ 08/24/11 12:07 PM
I was going to blog about what essential things in Madden is very welcomed this year and the breaking point of what EA has done in good and what could be a death kneel for it. For it seems with the demo's it stirs such a fervor over what the REAL game will be. We all know the Demo every year is quite a handicapped idea to what the game really ends up being. I am not sure the demo should even be considered a 'demo' as much as a 'layout' demonstration. how the new HUD will appear and be approached. It is like seeing a trailer for a movie, it never really explains the true emotion of the movie, it is there to just create the hype and wow, not the full reality of the movie. i have seen a lot of movies that don't' have great trailers because they convey the wrong feeling of what the movie's emotion really was. the demo of madden always feels like that to me. should be considered a beta demo preview.

however, the statements in this article bring up some amazingly well put points and rounds it up for me.

"Caley: Fact. However, I'm not sure it's the gameplay as much as the advertising regarding the additions to Franchise mode. As primarily an offline player, I think this mode got some needed attention. Is it all it could be, or once was? Certainly not, but if the little things -- roster cuts, dynamic attributes, tendencies -- pan out, I think it will be the best Madden Franchise mode of this generation."

If the new features pan out. excellent point! i feel that EA's bad rap is really based on stating new features, but then not executing in getting them to work. not to say that they 'all' don't work, but that it seems every year a 'feature' that is in the game is simply broken and that makes us the consumers feel that 'false advertising' is in play. Madden is a huge game with huge marketing and revealing what the 'features are' requires due diligence to make sure on shipping day these features are working as advertised. perhaps they need 'tweaking' but fully working. simply put, as Caley said it best. 'if the little things - roster cuts, dynamic attributes, tendencies -- pan out, it will be the best madden franchise mode of this generation." he calls it little things, which translates to 'details' 'pride' 'solid gameplay' 'providing the features as stated' this is the make or break for me. if they work as intended (room for tweaking but not broken) then success. I worry because of the track record of Madden, this is a shaky hope. but i will dare it because i wan't it to work so bad. the demo doesn't even show anything of what the franchise mode is except talk. lets see what is when i pay my $60. wish there was a demo mode for offline franchise mode somehow. then i would be happy with a demo. franchise is what madden is for me. i could care less about 'play now'.

"Christian: Fiction. Like Caley said, I know some folks don't like comparisons, and I especially hate using this example, but if NFL 2K5 was able to give us deep halftime and weekly highlight shows, complete with highlights from across the league, there is no excuse to not see these presentational features in a game like Madden 12. The new camera angles, banners and introductions are a great start, but until broadcast replays, graphical breakdowns and highlight shows are added, I can't say presentation is where it should be."

"Dustin: Fiction. It's nice going third here because now I don't even have to bring up games from the past. All I have to say is the "bar" for presentation was set years ago. It's time to set it again. "

up to recently I always rolled my eyes when someone brought up 2k5. I played 2k something and always felt the gameplay was never Madden. IMO. (welcome to your own of course). But what I didn't know was what the presentation was. when I just recently saw the presentation of 2k5's NFL I about crapped my pants. 2005!!! we are in 2012 madden here. Dustin is right, the bar is set and Madden needs to start working on presentation for 2013. 2012 is a excellent step in the right direction. the demo hints at it with the visuals and HUD for play now, but not commentary so the full game will tell the tape, but there is a long way to go. the bar is set.
 
# 33 jetup2343 @ 08/24/11 06:48 PM
I just hope they don't decide that this year's visual presentation is good enough and then they won't improve it at all next year. That would stink.
 

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