Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

Feature Article

Submitted on: 03/31/2011 by Jayson Young

With video game baseball season underway, it's the perfect time to make this analogy What realistic hitting would be to baseball games, realistic line play would be to football games -- unplayable for 95 percent of gamers.

To put things in perspective, a hitter at the MLB level has less than .25 seconds to judge a pitch's speed, location and decide whether or not to swing.

How Hard is it to Hit a Baseball?

Hitting major league pitching is so difficult, that succeeding 30 percent of the time is considered successful enough to earn a multi-million dollar contract.

NFL quarterbacks have more time to make decisions than MLB hitters, but with so much more data to take in, a NFL quarterback’s job is arguably the toughest in pro sports.

What Constitutes a "Realistic" Pass Rush?

The average NFL play lasts five seconds from snap to whistle.

A NFL quarterback is trained to get the ball out in less than three seconds -- 2.7 seconds, to be exact -- according to USA Today's study of the St. Louis Rams rookie quarterback, Sam Bradford.

Why three seconds? In a Sports Science test, Steelers outside linebacker LaMarr Woodley was able to break through two layers of pass protection in 2.6 seconds.

In another Sports Science video, Chargers defensive end Luis Castillo reached Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in 1.3 seconds when coming unblocked off the edge -- just a few hundredths of a second before Roethlishberger could complete a five-step drop and get the ball out of his hand.

Are these just lab numbers unrelated to what happens on a real football field?

An analysis of Dwight Freeney's 25 sacks from 2009 and 2010 suggests that Sports Science's pass rush numbers are spot-on. According to ESPN Stats & Information, 2.5 seconds was the average time from snap to Freeney making contact with the quarterback.

Removing one sack from the sample pool that took 5.8 seconds (on this play, the QB rolled out to the sideline opposite Freeney), the time it took for each of Dwight Freeney's remaining sacks was an astonishing 2.1 seconds.

A "Realistic" Pass Rush Would Frustrate Most Gamers

Could gamers handle having only one to three seconds to make their reads and get the ball out before getting crushed by a realistic pass rush?

I believe 95 percent of gamers would be begging for a patch within a week of the game's release to fix the game's "broken" pass protection.

A similar reaction occurred with a recent football game -- a game that, before the pass protection was "fixed," had the most realistic line play of any football game to date: Natural Motion's Backbreaker.

When a bad offensive line goes against a good defensive line in Backbreaker, the results are ugly. A team can run the ball 30 times and end up with negative yardage at the end of the game. Quarterbacks can end up taking double-digit sacks.

In Backbreaker, a mismatch at the line of scrimmage plays out much like the 2008 Sugar Bowl in which Georgia demolished Hawaii's weak offensive line:

With only a four-man pass rush, Georgia's defense pressured Hawaii quarterback, Colt Brennan, into eight sacks, two fumbles and four interceptions.

NFL teams like the 2009 New York Giants, whose defensive line harassed Tom Brady en route to a Super Bowl XLII Giants victory, proved that a four-man pass rush can cause havoc even at the highest level of football.

Video Game Pass Rush Is Neutered To Satisfy Gaming Majority

Attempting to play as the video game equivalent of great 4-3 defenses like the Giants, Lions, Titans or Rams is an exercise in frustration.

Defensive ends do not get upfield, defensive tackles do not push the pocket back, and neither position seems to explode off the ball with the sub-five second 40-yard dash speed that today's NFL defensive linemen display.

In Madden and NCAA Football, defensive linemen get sucked into vacuum blocks, fail to use line moves properly, and don’t use the sprint button when pursuing the QB -- core issues that have gone unfixed in EA's football games for years. Even in All Pro Football 2K8, feared defensive linemen like Reggie White can be easily handled by a generic offensive line that is set to “pass block.”

Why are video game developers keeping the four-man pass rush from being the game-changing entity that it can be in real life?

To put it simply, because the people buying football video games are not NFL quarterbacks.

Madden NFL 12 Videos

Member Comments

# 121 RGiles36 @ 04/08/11 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarodd21


	You do? I got too many plays and scored too many points when I tried it at that. Sometimes I get too many plays and score too many points with 14min quarters with 25 second runoff. They should add a 30 second runoff for us fast playcallers. That would be perfect for 15min minute quarters for me.

The run-off doesn't even work this year, unless it was fixed in a patch. It only does 15 or 20 secs, regardless of setting. I play at 13 mins, which normally gives me an accurate amount of plays.

# 122 Jarodd21 @ 04/08/11 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgiles36


	The run-off doesn't even work this year, unless it was fixed in a patch. It only does 15 or 20 secs, regardless of setting. I play at 13 mins, which normally gives me an accurate amount of plays.

I just checked it out right now as we speak and 25 seconds went right off the clock after I choose my play. Went from 7:41 to 7:16. So it is working.

# 123 Hova57 @ 04/08/11 01:02 PM

For me as far as the article goes they have a point, but what I think would contribute to better line play would be the logic of the AI and ratings two things that most football games struggle with. The issues we all have madden and ncaa is technically Logic driven. No one argues the animations look wrong for the most part, but its the way the AI handles the interaction. oline should work inside out , dline should be in their gaps or techniques. this is where most of the problem comes if the logic was as this simple to put in I think we would have better line play. I believe this is what they are trying to do with the run game. telling the AI where they need to go instead of looking for a body. if they could handle that down to the individual positions I think we would have better line play.

though the article doesn't talk about it I believe its the same struggles with cb/wr interaction also.

# 124 k0brakai @ 04/08/11 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilla56


	Madden is run on animations, not movement. There isnt a speed rush, there is engage the guy in front of you asap, do a move asap, and run towards qb. There isnt a bull rush, there is engage guy in front of you, do insta rip on him, get to qb. The movements of arms, hips, legs, helmets and technique do not matter, so it won't look anything like real life. You put the game on all madden and watch the CPU pull crazy pressure on your butt. Replay it and it is one big jumble of insta rips/swims and super speed dlinemen. Madden 13 should stress technique.

The thing with madden is, anytime you see anyone blocking, its a 2 person (although they do have 3 person double+chip anims) animation selected from a library of animations. Which animation you see is probably driven about 75% by the difficulty you're playing on, and 25% the battle of the two players blocking stats. So in the case of CPU Vs CPU blocking, its already made its mind up as to how much time you will have.

Dont think i've ever seen a 4-3 defensive end come out his stance and run(read: get motion shifted) directly at the tackle's center mass in a real NFL game, but i see that all the time in madden

Backbreaker on the other hand never locks two players in animation, it's always two seperate players interacting of their own accord, which is why it instantly feels more real.

# 125 Senator Palmer @ 04/08/11 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarodd21


	You do? I got too many plays and scored too many points when I tried it at that. Sometimes I get too many plays and score too many points with 14min quarters with 25 second runoff. They should add a 30 second runoff for us fast playcallers. That would be perfect for 15min minute quarters for me.

I do it on All-Madden, so I don't know how huge of a difference that makes. I don't get the 120+ plays with the 25 sec runoff; it's usually in that 110 range. And I focus on the ground game with long, long drives, tough defense to keep the clock moving and I usually take my time pre-snap and go deep into the playclock.

My last franchise season, I went in with a focus on improving my run game and wound up leading the league in rushing with two 1,000 plus yard backs and I finished under 4,000 yard passing for the first time I can remember. The scores themselves weren't any crazier than I'm used to in Madden. I did average over 30 a game, although the "killing blow" usually came late in games. I had some blowouts, some great defensive battles -- one game I only put up 16 points against the Panthers no less.

I get something around close to 240 passing a game and 156 + on the ground.

Now, to be fair, if I did have a wide open offense and focused in being up tempo then I'm sure I could post the most asinine stats, but I make it a focus to keep things as grounded as possible. I played around with the Saints a few times because I like Peyton's offense and I threw the ball like 50 times and put almost 500 yards in the air with something like 59 points.

# 126 Jarodd21 @ 04/08/11 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	I do it on All-Madden, so I don't know how huge of a difference that makes. I don't get the 120+ plays with the 25 sec runoff; it's usually in that 110 range. And I focus on the ground game with long, long drives, tough defense to keep the clock moving and I usually take my time pre-snap and go deep into the playclock. My last franchise season, I went in with a focus on improving my run game and wound up leading the league in rushing with two 1,000 plus yard backs and I finished under 4,000 yard passing for the first time I can remember. The scores themselves weren't any crazier than I'm used to in Madden. I did average over 30 a game, although the "killing blow" usually came late in games. I had some blowouts, some great defensive battles -- one game I only put up 16 points against the Panthers no less. I get something around close to 240 passing a game and 156 + on the ground. Now, to be fair, if I did have a wide open offense and focused in being up tempo then I'm sure I could post the most asinine stats, but I make it a focus to keep things as grounded as possible. I played around with the Saints a few times because I like Peyton's offense and I threw the ball like 50 times and put almost 500 yards in the air with something like 59 points.

Yea I'm an all-madden guy myself(got some good all-madden custom sliders your might wanna try on my sig since your an all-madden player) I don't do all-pro at all. Haha!

But when I played a couple of games with it on 15min quarters with the 25 second runoff I was averaging about 80+(by myself) plays a game. I'm a run first guy. I was getting about 25+ passes with Eli and about 25+ carries each with both Jacobs and Bradshaw. Scores and stats was kind of up there. It might be because of how fast I call my plays I don't know but I only should be getting around 55-65 plays a game. I'm playing with 14min quarters now with a 25 second runoff clock and Its ok but sometimes with that I still get a high amount of plays. A 30 second clock would be perfect for me and I hope they can add this because I really wanna play 15 min quarter games..

# 127 Mike-O @ 04/08/11 08:42 PM

Great article! Put my gaming expectations in perspective.

# 128 ForUntoOblivionSoar∞ @ 04/09/11 08:53 AM

This is one of the main reasons I hate casual football gamers. Their desire to play arcade football has been ruining football videos games for years. Don't like a fearsome pass rush? Learn to use hot routes and screen passes to slow it down.

I do wish that football game designers would at least give us the option of playing with realistic line play, through sliders. I don't see why that cannot be done.

# 129 jfsolo @ 04/09/11 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hova57


	For me as far as the article goes they have a point, but what I think would contribute to better line play would be the logic of the AI and ratings two things that most football games struggle with. The issues we all have madden and ncaa is technically Logic driven. No one argues the animations look wrong for the most part, but its the way the AI handles the interaction. oline should work inside out , dline should be in their gaps or techniques. this is where most of the problem comes if the logic was as this simple to put in I think we would have better line play. I believe this is what they are trying to do with the run game. telling the AI where they need to go instead of looking for a body. if they could handle that down to the individual positions I think we would have better line play. though the article doesn't talk about it I believe its the same struggles with cb/wr interaction also.

I agree 100%. I think most of us could live with some deficiencies in animation coverage if we got the sense that the AI was programmed better in terms of trying to play assignment football.

# 130 Hova57 @ 04/09/11 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawarthog


	Operation Sports sound like a bunch of EA apologists. After that 9 rating for Madden 11 what more can I say. Madden can now be compared to Mario Games as far as realism (ok that's a stretch but if you don't believe Madden is terrible then you're not being truthful. EA even admitted they have problem with this generation of systems. We have to be realist and not stick our head in the sand like EA want us to. Because the next generation of game consoles is around the corner and THINGS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE WITH EA.

The only thing I have to dispute with this is that you think the next gen is around the corner. With the current economic state the thought of a new gaming system produced in the next 3 years would be bad business. maybe for xbox cause of some issues, but i think they cleared up alot with the slim and hd.

# 131 RGiles36 @ 04/09/11 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarodd21


	I just checked it out right now as we speak and 25 seconds went right off the clock after I choose my play. Went from 7:41 to 7:16. So it is working.

What about the play clock?

# 132 Jarodd21 @ 04/09/11 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgiles36


	What about the play clock?

I'll check that out the next time I play but the game clock is definitely working..

# 133 mjhyankees @ 04/09/11 05:27 PM

I just dont' see how hard it is to do good presentation. It's not a game engine, it's not anything that wasn't done on old gen. It's probably a cost-analysis thing. Maybe they don't feel the extra cost (staff, hardware, time etc.) is worth it because not enough people complain about it. I agree that the presentation could be WAY better and wouldn't be hard to do. I'd personally pay another $5 for a great pregame, halftime and post game show, more varied graphics pregame and postgame, special superbowl presentation etc.

# 134 Senator Palmer @ 04/09/11 06:04 PM

Just to add my .02, I believe they designed the play clock like that on purpose in Madden 11.

In Madden 10 the runoff would leave you with about 10 seconds left in the play clock before you could make any checks. 25 seconds would come off the play clock itself with a base minimum of 14-15 seconds by the time you broke the huddle. Meaning, if you used a huge chunk of the play clock and didn't select your play until there were 18 seconds left, then 25 seconds wouldn't roll off. It would leave you with around 14-15 seconds.

I would take second to look at the field position, down, then find my formation, play, and package. That would leave me with around 30 seconds, 32 if I rushed. 25 seconds rolls off with the base being 15 ticking down to 14 by the time I broke the huddle, with another 3 seconds before my guys got to the line and got set, which meant to soonest I could look over the defense was around 11 in the play clock. That only left me with time for one move to audible, motion or change the protection. So, if I saw something and wanted to change a protection, then a route, it was pretty perilous.

In '11 the base will roll you down to about 18-19 seconds in the play clock while 25 ticks off the actual game clock. And I'd much rather have it that way. The extra 3 seconds I have at the line to look over the defense is gold.

And it's an added benefit that the actual time it takes to get through a game is steady, while being able to keep a patient approach to selecting my plays.

# 135 Jarodd21 @ 04/09/11 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	Just to add my .02, I believe they designed the play clock like that on purpose in Madden 11. In Madden 10 the runoff would leave you with about 10 seconds left in the play clock before you could make any checks. 25 seconds would come off the play clock itself with a base minimum of 14-15 seconds by the time you broke the huddle. Meaning, if you used a huge chunk of the play clock and didn't select your play until there were 18 seconds left, then 25 seconds wouldn't roll off. It would leave you with around 14-15 seconds. I would take second to look at the field position, down, then find my formation, play, and package. That would leave me with around 30 seconds, 32 if I rushed. 25 seconds rolls off with the base being 15 ticking down to 14 by the time I broke the huddle, with another 3 seconds before my guys got to the line and got set, which meant to soonest I could look over the defense was around 11 in the play clock. That only left me with time for one move to audible, motion or change the protection. So, if I saw something and wanted to change a protection, then a route, it was pretty perilous. In '11 the base with roll you down to about 18-19 seconds in the play clock while 25 ticks off the actual game clock. And I'd much rather have it that way. The extra 3 seconds I have at the line to look over the defense is gold. And it's an added benefit that the actual time it takes to get through a game is steady, while being able to keep a patient approach to selecting my plays.

That makes sense. Thats how it should be..

# 136 jhogan3132 @ 04/18/11 09:32 AM

BRAVO SIR!!! That is a very well written article. IT DEFINETLY PUTS THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE.

# 137 RGiles36 @ 04/18/11 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	In Madden 10 the runoff would leave you with about 10 seconds left in the play clock before you could make any checks. 25 seconds would come off the play clock itself with a base minimum of 14-15 seconds by the time you broke the huddle. Meaning, if you used a huge chunk of the play clock and didn't select your play until there were 18 seconds left, then 25 seconds wouldn't roll off. It would leave you with around 14-15 seconds.

Ok, but in M10 you had options. If 25 seconds ran too much of the clock off for you, you could change the run off to 20 or 15. Problem solved?

It's not a huge issue in M11, I just think it's not right I guess. If the CPU would take more time at the snap, it wouldn't be a big deal at all to me. I'm hoping that's addressed this year.

# 138 Senator Palmer @ 04/18/11 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgiles36


	Ok, but in M10 you had options. If 25 seconds ran too much of the clock off for you, you could change the run off to 20 or 15. Problem solved? It's not a huge issue in M11, I just think it's not right I guess. If the CPU would take more time at the snap, it wouldn't be a big deal at all to me. I'm hoping that's addressed this year.

Yeah, I agree, the bolded is the issue. Last year I mostly did 15, and had plenty of time, but it felt like the games ran a little long. This year, the game moves at a good pace, but the CPU snapping the ball is ridiculous.

# 139 KDayisBack @ 04/03/14 02:18 PM

this was a good article

# 140 XXstormmXX @ 04/06/14 03:49 PM

I don't care about realistic line play. I just don't want the QB to be able to stand in the pocket all day before rolling out and throwing across his body for a TD.

But if you want to be like a real QB, try very fast game speed. It makes you have to throw a lot quicker.

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