MLB The Show 16 News Post

MLB The Show 16 Bullpen Tuning Details in Patch 1.04

07:20 PM - May 4, 2016 by Brian SCEA

The following bullpen details were also added to the latest MLB The Show 16 1.04 patch.

CPU managers will let starters pitch slightly longer in various situations. They're less likely to pull starters over individual runners on base.
In simulated games, CPU managers will pull starters slightly sooner. I.e. games you sim on the front end and fast forward (both RTTS and manual).
When a closer hasn't played in 3 or more days, the CPU may make them play regardless of the save situation to give them work.
As a result of the two previous changes, starters will pitch fewer total IP (and IP/G), while relievers and closers will play more games.
Other changes to how CPU managers manage relief pitchers in certain situations. These are all tuning changes.

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Member Comments

# 1 countryboy @ 05/04/16 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian SCEA


	I don't know where else to put this, but these are some changes for the patch. At the time of the patch I had to move on to work on other fixes, so I couldn't clarify these details until now. * CPU managers will let starters pitch slightly longer in various situations. They're less likely to pull starters over individual runners on base. * In simulated games, CPU managers will pull starters slightly sooner. I.e. games you sim on the front end and fast forward (both RTTS and manual). * When a closer hasn't played in 3 or more days, the CPU may make them play regardless of the save situation to give them work. * As a result of the two previous changes, starters will pitch fewer total IP (and IP/G), while relievers and closers will play more games. * Other changes to how CPU managers manage relief pitchers in certain situations. These are all tuning changes.

Excellent changes/additions!

# 2 p00p1 @ 05/04/16 07:32 PM

Really cool to see more details. Anything else not included in the notes?

# 3 Dynasty Legend 99 @ 05/04/16 07:34 PM

I noticed it in a game today against the Blue Jays.

The Jays brought in a reliever after a strike out to take advantage of the situation.

Never had seen that before.

Well done!

# 4 Turbojugend @ 05/04/16 07:36 PM

Thank you for taking the time to post this. These types of details definitely help!

# 5 bcruise @ 05/04/16 07:49 PM

Thanks a lot for posting Brian!

Some early test sims I'm running are still showing some very high complete game numbers on the default stamina/hook sliders. In one sim the Mets had 35, and the Giants had 30. The lowest number of CG's by a team in that season was 6, by several teams. Any idea why this might be happening after the patch? Is it because of the CPU's determination to hang with its starter when he's throwing a shutout/1 run game, regardless of how many pitches he's thrown? It definitely exhibits this tendency in played games as well as simmed.

The good news is that the hook slider + starter stamina combo still has a powerful effect on CG's - lowering stamina to min and raising hook to max made 11 the top CG number (by 3 teams) in another sim and one team, the Rockies, had none all season. It's still a tradeoff for innings pitched (and everything that goes with it, including strikeouts) when you do this, though.

Haven't gotten to try the in-game changes since you posted about this yet.

# 6 Ghost Of The Year @ 05/04/16 07:51 PM

I just wanted to reiterate thanks for posting the details and looking forward to seeing the bullpen tuning at work during my season.

# 7 p00p1 @ 05/04/16 08:02 PM

Would be great to see the new stamina meter shown for in-game bullpens. Weird to only have it at the pregame screen.

# 8 richmondn96 @ 05/04/16 08:21 PM

After the patch, I am seeing Starting Pitchers listed as Set Up pitchers in daily roster mode. In one game the Phillies put in Velasquez as a reliever, and for the Red Sox, Clay Buchholz & David Price are listed as Set Up. (PS3)

# 9 bcruise @ 05/04/16 08:29 PM

Hmm...maybe not so fast on that hook/stamina slider combo bombing IP:

Again, starter stamina minimum, hook maximum

Spoiler

That, honestly, is not bad. And I've had a few sims now that look very close to this as far as the leaders go. CG's have been very, very close to looking like real life numbers with this setting. I've probably got a little leeway to even lower hook or raise stamina to get a few more IP, and not throw anything too far out of whack.

Definitely want to hear Tabarnes' thoughts on this since he's the sim guy.

# 10 tabarnes19_SDS @ 05/04/16 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcruise


	Hmm...maybe not so fast on that hook/stamina slider combo bombing IP: Again, starter stamina minimum, hook maximum Spoiler That, honestly, is not bad. And I've had a few sims now that look very close to this as far as the leaders go. CG's have been very, very close to looking like real life numbers with this setting. I've probably got a little leeway to even lower hook or raise stamina to get a few more IP, and not throw anything too far out of whack. Definitely want to hear Tabarnes' thoughts on this since he's the sim guy.

Those numbers look real good. What do the numbers look like for the 3 and 4 starters? RP innings?

I probably won't get a chance to touch the game until tomorrow since I promised the wife a movie tonight.[emoji2]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

# 11 SMP7 @ 05/04/16 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian SCEA


	I don't know where else to put this, but these are some changes for the patch. At the time of the patch I had to move on to work on other fixes, so I couldn't clarify these details until now. * CPU managers will let starters pitch slightly longer in various situations. They're less likely to pull starters over individual runners on base. * In simulated games, CPU managers will pull starters slightly sooner. I.e. games you sim on the front end and fast forward (both RTTS and manual). * When a closer hasn't played in 3 or more days, the CPU may make them play regardless of the save situation to give them work. * As a result of the two previous changes, starters will pitch fewer total IP (and IP/G), while relievers and closers will play more games. * Other changes to how CPU managers manage relief pitchers in certain situations. These are all tuning changes.

Those changes are awesome! Did this patch also address the way the computer manages injuries in the starting rotation? Before the patch, instead of calling up a starter from the minor leagues off their 40 man roster when a member of the rotation landed on the DL, the computer would allow a RP to start a game instead. Several high profile relievers were also ending up in long relief roles as a result of this issue once the injured pitchers returned to the rotation. Thanks for continuing to improve the game with these patches. We all appreciate it!

# 12 Dynasty Legend 99 @ 05/04/16 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p00p1


	Would be great to see the new stamina meter shown for in-game bullpens. Weird to only have it at the pregame screen.

Am I the only one who liked the first version of that meter much better?

# 13 JBoo2911 @ 05/04/16 08:52 PM

Nice tweaks! Thank You

# 14 bcruise @ 05/04/16 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabarnes19


	Those numbers look real good. What do the numbers look like for the 3 and 4 starters? RP innings? I probably won't get a chance to touch the game until tomorrow since I promised the wife a movie tonight.[emoji2] Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

This is from a different sim (with somewhat lower IP's overall) and it's from Season mode, not franchise. Shouldn't really affect much with the SP's at the MLB level, though (aside from maybe callups not eating up some of the innings):

RP innings look high compared to real life previous years, with most teams having an 80 IP reliever and some having multiple. The highest were up in the 100's. Makes sense, because the sliders are where they are. That's what I meant by possibly having some leeway with them - if aces were only going 5-6 innings often, then lowering hook a bit might get them to the 7th-8th more often, but not push up CG's at the same time. I need to look at the individual game sims in more detail to get a clearer picture, but at least I have something to work with now!

The tune B Ma mentioned for closers throwing more innings was definitely noticeable as saves leader Hector Rondon had 70 save opps (blew 10) but made 90 appearances. In another sim, 52 saves, 8 blown, 76 total appearances.

# 15 EWRMETS @ 05/04/16 09:44 PM

I think it's great a closer would have to get some work but is there a penalty if a reliever goes a long time without pitching?

# 16 Brian SCEA @ 05/04/16 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcruise


	CG's have been very, very close to looking like real life numbers with this setting.

I'll take a look at CG stats in general next time I have a chance. The stat depends heavily on subjective "borderline" criteria.

The main focus of my changes were on IP/G and the fact that every starter would go an extra half inning per game. That adds up and heavily affects SV and G for relievers and also ends up potentially hiding other logic issues. The original problem was parts of this simming logic is shared for in-game manager decisions, so I had to fix things regardless of if I actually wanted to, in order to address in-game issues.

In other words, in-game logic was pulling starters too soon for one set of reasons, sim logic was letting starters play a little too long for another set. I'll take another look but at the end of the day, you have to balance between IP, IP/G, SV, and G versus CG from what it sounds like.

# 17 Brian SCEA @ 05/04/16 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richmondn96


	After the patch, I am seeing Starting Pitchers listed as Set Up pitchers in daily roster mode. In one game the Phillies put in Velasquez as a reliever, and for the Red Sox, Clay Buchholz & David Price are listed as Set Up. (PS3)

Unfortunately I don't know anything about that part of the game, or what changes have or haven't been made there. All I can say is I don't think my changes would affect that.

# 18 bcruise @ 05/04/16 09:56 PM

Didn't take me long going through game logs with hook maxed to find something I LOVE seeing post-patch - MANY examples of this:

I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen the CPU pull a starter with a shutout before this change, regardless of where I had the hook slider at - it could be maxed and it still wouldn't pull him. I counted at least 7 - 8 of these up to the all-star break for the Cubs games alone (including those pitchers whom they played against).

That's huge, HUGE for cutting down the number of CG's. Thanks a lot Brian!

# 19 Brian SCEA @ 05/04/16 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcruise


	I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen the CPU pull a starter with a shutout before this change, regardless of where I had the hook slider at - it could be maxed and it still wouldn't pull him. I counted at least 7 - 8 of these up to the all-star break for the Cubs games alone (including those pitchers whom they played against). That's huge, HUGE for cutting down the number of CG's. Thanks a lot Brian!

I agree, I'd like to work on this more. I'm curious what's important to people: totaled stats, individual game behavior, or situational behavior (division, playoffs, multi-game situations). CG and IP are an example of total stats, "managers pull starters too soon" is individual game, and the closer not getting enough work is a combination of total stats and situational behavior (i.e. the solution requires multi-game thinking).

The problem is, every person I've asked this to will give me a different answer, so it's hard to know whether I'm working on something hard to notice instead of something more important. I'm guessing I can probably work on this two weeks at the most.

I guess that calls for a poll? I'll follow up in a few weeks.

# 20 Bobhead @ 05/04/16 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian SCEA


	I agree, I'd like to work on this more. I'm curious what's important to people: totaled stats, individual game behavior, or situational behavior (division, playoffs, multi-game situations). CG and IP are an example of total stats, "managers pull starters too soon" is individual game, and the closer not getting enough work is a combination of total stats and situational behavior (i.e. the solution requires multi-game thinking). The problem is, every person I've asked this to will give me a different answer, so it's hard to know whether I'm working on something hard to notice instead of something more important. I'm guessing I can probably work on this two weeks at the most. I guess that calls for a poll? I'll follow up in a few weeks.

The CPU doing the best it can to win the game is really #1 here, at least for me. I'd love to see a realistic number of CGs and Shutouts and whatnot, but most importantly, I want the Phillies (who have a terrible bullpen) to leave their dominating starter in the game against me almost all of the time, and I want the Royals (who have a great bullpen at least on paper and from last year's stats) to have a pretty quick hook on their starters as soon as there are signs of trouble.

All in all, the CPU should leave their starter in until the starter is no longer the best option. Counting stats are arbitrary at best, and are secondary in importance to a properly behaving situational AI.

None of this applies in simmed games of course, in that case the priority should be on stats.

Not saying this is or isn't already happening post 1.04... I haven't played a game yet. Just sharing my thoughts. The changes you posted all seem like great/welcome additions.

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