MLB The Show 16 Bullpen Tuning Details in Patch 1.04

[Brian SCEA]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcruise

CG's have been very, very close to looking like real life numbers with this setting.

I'll take a look at CG stats in general next time I have a chance. The stat depends heavily on subjective "borderline" criteria.

The main focus of my changes were on IP/G and the fact that every starter would go an extra half inning per game. That adds up and heavily affects SV and G for relievers and also ends up potentially hiding other logic issues. The original problem was parts of this simming logic is shared for in-game manager decisions, so I had to fix things regardless of if I actually wanted to, in order to address in-game issues.

In other words, in-game logic was pulling starters too soon for one set of reasons, sim logic was letting starters play a little too long for another set. I'll take another look but at the end of the day, you have to balance between IP, IP/G, SV, and G versus CG from what it sounds like.

[Brian SCEA]

Quote: Originally Posted by richmondn96

After the patch, I am seeing Starting Pitchers listed as Set Up pitchers in daily roster mode. In one game the Phillies put in Velasquez as a reliever, and for the Red Sox, Clay Buchholz & David Price are listed as Set Up. (PS3)

Unfortunately I don't know anything about that part of the game, or what changes have or haven't been made there. All I can say is I don't think my changes would affect that.

[bcruise]

Didn't take me long going through game logs with hook maxed to find something I LOVE seeing post-patch - MANY examples of this:



I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen the CPU pull a starter with a shutout before this change, regardless of where I had the hook slider at - it could be maxed and it still wouldn't pull him. I counted at least 7 - 8 of these up to the all-star break for the Cubs games alone (including those pitchers whom they played against).

That's huge, HUGE for cutting down the number of CG's. Thanks a lot Brian!

[Brian SCEA]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcruise

I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen the CPU pull a starter with a shutout before this change, regardless of where I had the hook slider at - it could be maxed and it still wouldn't pull him. I counted at least 7 - 8 of these up to the all-star break for the Cubs games alone (including those pitchers whom they played against). That's huge, HUGE for cutting down the number of CG's. Thanks a lot Brian!

I agree, I'd like to work on this more. I'm curious what's important to people: totaled stats, individual game behavior, or situational behavior (division, playoffs, multi-game situations). CG and IP are an example of total stats, "managers pull starters too soon" is individual game, and the closer not getting enough work is a combination of total stats and situational behavior (i.e. the solution requires multi-game thinking).

The problem is, every person I've asked this to will give me a different answer, so it's hard to know whether I'm working on something hard to notice instead of something more important. I'm guessing I can probably work on this two weeks at the most.

I guess that calls for a poll? I'll follow up in a few weeks.

[Bobhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brian SCEA

I agree, I'd like to work on this more. I'm curious what's important to people: totaled stats, individual game behavior, or situational behavior (division, playoffs, multi-game situations). CG and IP are an example of total stats, "managers pull starters too soon" is individual game, and the closer not getting enough work is a combination of total stats and situational behavior (i.e. the solution requires multi-game thinking). The problem is, every person I've asked this to will give me a different answer, so it's hard to know whether I'm working on something hard to notice instead of something more important. I'm guessing I can probably work on this two weeks at the most. I guess that calls for a poll? I'll follow up in a few weeks.

The CPU doing the best it can to win the game is really #1 here, at least for me. I'd love to see a realistic number of CGs and Shutouts and whatnot, but most importantly, I want the Phillies (who have a terrible bullpen) to leave their dominating starter in the game against me almost all of the time, and I want the Royals (who have a great bullpen at least on paper and from last year's stats) to have a pretty quick hook on their starters as soon as there are signs of trouble.

All in all, the CPU should leave their starter in until the starter is no longer the best option. Counting stats are arbitrary at best, and are secondary in importance to a properly behaving situational AI.

None of this applies in simmed games of course, in that case the priority should be on stats.

Not saying this is or isn't already happening post 1.04... I haven't played a game yet. Just sharing my thoughts. The changes you posted all seem like great/welcome additions.

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brian SCEA

I don't know where else to put this, but these are some changes for the patch. At the time of the patch I had to move on to work on other fixes, so I couldn't clarify these details until now. * CPU managers will let starters pitch slightly longer in various situations. They're less likely to pull starters over individual runners on base. * In simulated games, CPU managers will pull starters slightly sooner. I.e. games you sim on the front end and fast forward (both RTTS and manual). * When a closer hasn't played in 3 or more days, the CPU may make them play regardless of the save situation to give them work. * As a result of the two previous changes, starters will pitch fewer total IP (and IP/G), while relievers and closers will play more games. * Other changes to how CPU managers manage relief pitchers in certain situations. These are all tuning changes.

This is excellent information. Thanks for the breakdown and all your work!

(and thanks to bcruise for his testing and great feedback as well!)

[oldtimey]

You will greatly reduce the number of innings that your middle and setup relievers pitch if you always keep a "6th starter" in the long relief slot in your roster. Your middle and setup guys innings increase when they have to pitch earlier in the game than the 6th and when they pitch multiple innings when a game goes into extras. To keep a long guy in the LRP slot in a 12-man staff, you should only have 1 one SU pitcher. Though there are 2 slots, a LH/RH combo in these slots is not necessary. Just one guy, with stuff that will suffice to occasionally close games, should be in the one slot. You will need all 4 of the MRP slots filled. If you go to a 13-man staff or when rosters expand, fill the LRP slots before the SU slots to further take pressure of your MRP guys. You will find that the CPU now will only use your MRP in the 6th inning or later, keeping their appearances at 1 IP or less. Your relief staff's numbers will then be realistic at the end of the season. You might get relievers with 85 appearances, but you will not get any reliever with close to 100 IP.

[Jr.]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brian SCEA

I agree, I'd like to work on this more. I'm curious what's important to people: totaled stats, individual game behavior, or situational behavior (division, playoffs, multi-game situations). CG and IP are an example of total stats, "managers pull starters too soon" is individual game, and the closer not getting enough work is a combination of total stats and situational behavior (i.e. the solution requires multi-game thinking). The problem is, every person I've asked this to will give me a different answer, so it's hard to know whether I'm working on something hard to notice instead of something more important. I'm guessing I can probably work on this two weeks at the most. I guess that calls for a poll? I'll follow up in a few weeks.

I would think that correct situational behavior would alleviate all of these, wouldn't it? A situation in a played game should play out the same way if it were the same situation in a sim, right?

I don't know if this is your area, Brian, but I would also imagine that adding L/R splits for pitchers would help a lot, too.