Madden NFL 17 News Post

Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

01:36 PM - April 25, 2016 by Steve_OS

The question of realism in sports games is always a tricky thing to discuss. Most of us want our sports games to be “realistic” depictions of what we watch on TV or experience in our day-to-day lives.

What that usually means is hoping Madden makes the passing game more diversified, or hoping you can botch your cap situation like a true Jerry Jones disciple. In many respects, what people are talking about wanting here at Operation Sports are “simulation” aspects that help keep a game dynamic and interesting. Repetition is the enemy.

But there’s another layer of “realism” in sports games, as well as another set of creative liberties that go along with it. I would classify this element of realism as visual realism. It’s one part graphics, but it’s also just one part physicality. Hockey games, football games, basketball games, even baseball games all have to deal with collisions and physics. What do these interactions look like? How do they make you feel? (Boxing games and MMA games are built around visual physicality, so I’m ignoring them here because combat sports are a whole other disucssion.)

Read More - Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden? (Written By: Chase Becotte)

Game: Madden NFL 17Reader Score: 8/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / PS4 / Xbox 360 / Xbox OneVotes for game: 17 - View All

Member Comments

# 41 SolidSquid @ 04/26/16 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gridiron


	What dangerous hits? In Madden, the players rarely even make actual contact with each other: And when they do, it's only done barely, so barely that the hit reaction is totally over the top: Even the WWE is more believable. What's crazy is that I thought real-time physics were supposed to eliminate that, and if I recall in Madden 12 (before Madden had RTP) the collision detection was way more precise to the point that it was impressive. How did they manage to add RTP and go backwards? Even with BackBreaker, a complete garbage game, the players were making actual contact.

This is because weight and momentum still don't matter. It's why a cornerback can take on any RB with a full head of steam and bring him down. Once players are in that "contact zone" the animations take over.

# 42 bigd51 @ 04/26/16 03:26 PM

I'll say it never crossed my mind until reading this article.

I'll also say, another reason I don't care about the welfare of the players in Madden is because EA does a horrendous job of making me care about them in the first place, outside of some numbers.

These guys don't give interviews, randomly jump over fences in their spare time to throw a ball around with some school yard kids on recess, they don't get suspended for anything, "news" about the players/hall of fame votes/retiring players is constricted to one, maybe two, extremely vague sentences about how long they played but not why they were considered a Hall of Famer, no news about charitable work.

The entire game just has zero character. None. And I'm not talking about gameplay presentation, either. I don't give a mess about on field cutscenes and highlights and all that jazz. I'm talking about presentation and immersion outside of gameplay. These players are completely lifeless off the field, so why should I care about their life on it?

So, no, the hits don't bother me because of "safety" concerns. What does offend me about those gif's in the OP, especially in the last gif, is how insanely stupid those players look around the pile and how anytime physics takes over instead of an animation, the player loses every ounce of motor function and simply topple over like a wilted flower.

You either have physics take over and see players tossing themselves carelessly around like fish jumping out of water, or you have animations take over and see players B-lining to the ballcarrier at mach speed only to instantly lose all momentum by getting sucked into a gang tackling animation. There has to be a way to utilize both, cohesively. Like physics takes over from the point of contact based on speed and direction to determine which way momentum will take the ballcarriers, then after like a split second, animations take over so players can take back control of their limbs to finish the process with all motor function intact. Only that would need an extensive animation library, much more than the one they have now, I would assume. Or it may just not be that time for sports games yet.

I don't know if they could, or even have the slightest idea how they could... but I hope they figure out something because the ragdoll affect is killing it for me right now.

# 43 howboutdat @ 04/26/16 03:27 PM

I agree .Its not about bashing, because i think most of us get it, the real reason big hits arent in the game anymore is because the NFL dont want them in there, due to the concusion issues in real life and they dont want someone claiming they in any way , shape, or form are "glorifying" them as some have called it by allowing it in a video game with their name on it.

If we are being real for a minute, who here does not like to see a good hard hit in real life NFL? Not talking about the Burfict type illegal hit on defenseless player( which is just being a sorry human being), but just a dang good hard hit tackle on a guy?( Like Kam did to Megatron this past year) Its one of the reasons we watch football, and if it turns into flag football, no one will watch that crap to see the "chess match" i can bet you on that.

I dont see why we cant have hard hits with the hit stick, Just make them legal hits, but give them some dang force and end this watered down tackling, or worse the warp tackling BS that somehow made its way back into this game this year after some patches.

What makes me mad is , the legal hard hits have been taken away from the game, due to the real life concussion issues.That should not be the case.I do feel bad for those real life players, that doesnt mean i want a watered down game, that basically is causing wonky animations to keep things from looking like people are being hit too hard.There has to be a balance somewhere. Just wish they would find it and bring back big hits to the game. Its always been a part of real football and the day its fully taken away, its not football anymore, its sarcastaball . http://southpark.cc.com/clips/k9a8o3...t-sarcastaball

# 44 bigd51 @ 04/26/16 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howboutdat


	If we are being real for a minute, who here does not like to see a good hard hit in real life NFL?

Like this thing of beauty:

All the way down to the way he seamlessly glides off Johnson and uses his hands to push himself up. This would be the perfect example I would use in regard to what I was saying about physics and animations being used cohesively.

# 45 howboutdat @ 04/26/16 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigd51


	Like this thing of beauty: All the way down to the way he seamlessly glides off Johnson and uses his hands to push himself up. This would be the perfect example I would use in regard to what I was saying about physics and animations being used cohesively.

Agreed , thats football and why we watch.Now someone some me how often that happens in madden.... ill go make dinner real quick and figure out nuclear fission while im at it waiting to see it.

To answer the title of the thread though,Do i care about dangerous hits in a video game thoug?To be honest , no. I care as much about it as i care about senseless acts of violence in a video game such as GTA. To me its nothing real about it, it carries no real world weight to me.I see no reason it cant be in there, but i understand why the NFL dont want to see it either. That said, i really wish the physics engine would be worked on alot , to make things like what was posted above been seen in the game. A legal hard hit.That dont look like ragdolls are involved as well as no real physics at all.

# 46 SportsGameGod @ 04/26/16 04:01 PM

I don't care about dangerous hits in real life so why i would i care about them in a game. I'm not apart of this sensitive unrealistic culture that is afraid of violence. We're all going to die one day and these players all know what they are signing up for.

If you don't want to get hurt then don't play.

# 47 SolidSquid @ 04/26/16 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigd51


	Like this thing of beauty: All the way down to the way he seamlessly glides off Johnson and uses his hands to push himself up. This would be the perfect example I would use in regard to what I was saying about physics and animations being used cohesively.

RB can't build up steam, LB has a running start, form tackle, respectable outcome. What suck is when this scenario happens in madden and the RB straight up bulldozes that LB, that's not a respectable outcome.

# 48 bigd51 @ 04/26/16 04:16 PM

Lol I just found this looking for an example of that Thomas Davis tackle in Madden, published by EA for Madden '15:

https://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/.../how-to-tackle

Apparently, the tackling in Madden is poor enough that it even violates Youtube's ToS.

Sorry, I just thought this was unintentionally funny relating to the thread discussion, so I had to share.

# 49 ksteward84 @ 04/26/16 04:51 PM

Honestly I have no concerns about my digital men getting digital Post Concussion Syndrome, or having digital repercussions due to their digital blows to the head.

As long as there is a realistic number of concussions and percentage of injuries due to big hits, I'm okay with it.

# 50 roadman @ 04/26/16 05:25 PM

We also need to understand that Madden is made for a wide splintered audience. This includes wannabe 10 year olds who want to pretend to be the next Rodgers or Luck.

The NFL will not sanction suspensions for a video football game, I just don't see that happening, just like you won't see too many concussions happening on the field. Concussions for the NFL are in the mainstream with movies and constantly football players retiring at younger ages.

So, in conclusion, there are a few factors that enter into the equation regarding hard hits entering Madden. They are playing to a wide audience and they are playing with the license of the shield.

I wouldn't mind hard jarring hits in the game if done right, but I also understand that would put the games ratings at a PG-13 vs a PG rating, putting it in movie terms.

# 51 DeuceDouglas @ 04/26/16 05:27 PM

I care about dangerous hits in Madden as much as I care about being an upstanding citizen in GTA. It's a video game. The thing that concerns me more about the GIF in the OP is that it's something that it's blatantly a flag and something you don't normally see but I think on a whole the clean up tackles do more good than bad. I remember pointing out instances before release of guys diving into legs as the whistles blowing and I think living on that edge is perfectly fine but when you get moments like this it looks bad.

My biggest problem with big, "dangerous" hits in Madden is that they have been so unrealistic for years. Watching Marshawn Lynch get decleated horizontally by a 195 lb. corner is comical to watch. Just like watching guys who are deemed big hitters stand flat footed and and explode guys.

But to answer the question, no. I don't care about the health of little digital foot soldiers or the "dangerous" hits they take.

# 52 dreneel @ 04/26/16 09:48 PM

I want the helmet popping off like back in the days... It's still a video game... Chill with the realism... Lol

# 53 perksg @ 04/26/16 09:57 PM

I always revert to the standard that it is a game played from a couch by using fingers and buttons. No matter how realistic the games become, there is always a power or reset button. Games can only mimic reality and never become reality.

# 54 roadman @ 04/26/16 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreneel


	I want the helmet popping off like back in the days... It's still a video game... Chill with the realism... Lol

Start with a petition to the owners and Goodell and the No Fun League.

# 55 blackscorpion11 @ 04/26/16 10:53 PM

Big hits are part of the game, my fear is that they would OVER do it with arcadey animations or POORLY render it so that it breaks the laws of physics in the game.

# 56 2_headedmonster @ 04/26/16 11:59 PM

I want more big hits with less of a heat seeking effect. Hit sticks should be easier to avoid.

# 57 Del Val Events @ 04/27/16 12:15 AM

Big hits play a much bigger part in real football than they do in Madden.

Upping their impact on Madden would only be an improvement.

Balance is important though. Make the players land them. No auto or suction aspects to big hits, please.

# 58 UFCMPunk @ 04/27/16 01:32 AM

The only question we have to ask ourselves when it comes to this subject is this. Is the NFL willing to work with EA in allowing "big hits" or "dangerous hits" allowing it in Madden but properly doing so? I get it, the NFL had concussions removed from Madden because of concussion issues. If the NFL and EA worked together, make it reflect real life and players would have to sit out a play or two after getting a head injury just like in real life.

EA would have to implement some alert system in the "Things To Do" menu within CFM where you would check on the status of a player with a concussion. You then get the report of how long he will be out and each week you'll have a status alert that informs you his progress and when he is fully healed.

That's a good compromise to bring back Concussions into the game. Then work together on how to properly handle other injuries within Madden. Then certain hits would be penalized, work with EA on when a certain hit is made and animation is done, a flag is thrown to reflect what we see on Sundays. That way you don't sacrifice big hits, and now you can teach people in Madden how the NFL handles injuries and the safety, etc.

# 59 Dr Death @ 04/27/16 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UFCMPunk


	The only question we have to ask ourselves when it comes to this subject is this. Is the NFL willing to work with EA in allowing "big hits" or "dangerous hits" allowing it in Madden but properly doing so? I get it, the NFL had concussions removed from Madden because of concussion issues. If the NFL and EA worked together, make it reflect real life and players would have to sit out a play or two after getting a head injury just like in real life. EA would have to implement some alert system in the "Things To Do" menu within CFM where you would check on the status of a player with a concussion. You then get the report of how long he will be out and each week you'll have a status alert that informs you his progress and when he is fully healed. That's a good compromise to bring back Concussions into the game. Then work together on how to properly handle other injuries within Madden. Then certain hits would be penalized, work with EA on when a certain hit is made and animation is done, a flag is thrown to reflect what we see on Sundays. That way you don't sacrifice big hits, and now you can teach people in Madden how the NFL handles injuries and the safety, etc.

You make a very good and valid point!!! It cracks me up when I hear that the NFL wants so much control over a video game... in the uniform error thread someone actually said that teams play in their uniforms because that's what the NFL wants, instead of allowing us to dress them in throwback unis.

But what's really crazy is all this control they have, we still see ridiculous stuff like players being hit out of bounds, that in real life, would definitely draw a flag. You see it on kickoff returns a lot.

But your point is great... if the NFL loosens up, they could help teach people - mostly kids - but they could teach them the right and wrong way to play the game of football. But I seriously doubt that the NFL will ever see it that way. So...

# 60 roadman @ 04/27/16 11:03 AM

Eh, game play with 2k, I am reminded I am playing a video game. They get more right than they get wrong, but there are some glaring issues.

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