Madden NFL 16 News Post

Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

11:28 AM - July 2, 2015 by RaychelSnr

Donny Moore, aka the ‘Madden Ratings Czar’, is leaving Electronic Arts as he will be “pursuing other interests.”

In an official statement on Twitter, Moore said, “After much thought & consideration, I have chosen to step away from @EASports & announce my retirement as the Madden Ratings Czar as I have opted to pursue other interests. I am especially grateful of the opportunity to rate players for some of the greatest fans in video games today. After 16 years, it is finally time to hang up the czar's mouse pad! #Czartirement"

For Moore, this ends a long tenure as the guy running the ratings and updates for Madden. Moore’s tenure spanned 16 years at EA Tiburon, which means he was easily one of the most tenured at that studio. There is no word yet on who will be replacing Moore, but we do expect an announcement soon.

The ratings position occupied by Moore has been a staple of Madden’s internet presence for years. Moore’s ratings oftentimes drew criticism, but the weekly ratings updates were always hugely anticipated by fans, despite what ire they may have drawn.

The ratings this year will likely still come in the same pacing as previous years, and it will be interesting to see if any differences in how much players move up and down the scale happens without Moore at the helm. We’ll certainly be watching it going forward!

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Member Comments

# 221 jerwoods @ 07/06/15 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	All they need to do is get real data and mimic the statistical distribution of that data. When you do that, you find out some very interesting things about your population of NFL players. Like how if you use the same methodology for every attribute, you find that NFL player have an average SPD of 68 (if you set the best to 99 and the worst to 1) and an average ACC of 65. Madden right now has an average SPD closer to 76 and ACC closer to 83. However, in their defense, I don't think they are using the data they need to use.

if they want to look players picking up and playing the game right off Madden 2000 was the closest thing very balened game it was a game so good u could play with default settings and the run game was near perfect

# 222 4thQtrStre5S @ 07/06/15 07:09 PM

I think the people at EA need to grab one of the copies of rosters using Dan's ratings and see how well they play....There is a PS4 and Xbox One version here in the Roster section; they give directions on how to find them in the Madden share system...

# 223 kehlis @ 07/06/15 07:12 PM

Dan,

Did you broach the topic of if you would be able to continue doing what you do (with your rosters, your site, etc.) if you agreed to either consult with them or even get hired by them?

# 224 ggsimmonds @ 07/06/15 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfsolo


	So every year when the game first releases and the overall team ratings basically range from 72-92, are they bumping up the lower teams when they really should be in the low 60's? or 50's? Are they making sure that every teams has a certain number of players with high ratings in every category? I'm trying to get a sense of what else "competitive gameplay" could entail.

I was pretty sure that the team overalls were just an arbitrary number Donny though the team deserved and not determined by a calculation using the roster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon46


	Well it matters in the sense that to EA a 90 rating in speed equals a player running a 4.42 40 yard dash. Having 460 players running under a 4.42 is not realistic, only about 175 players in the NFL have run under that time. And the over inflation of speed goes beyond the 90 rated players..... So when in reality you should have about 5-10 Running Backs with a 90+ speed rating.... you get 35. I dont want them to alter the scale, I want the scale to be realistic.... this in itself will lead to more realistic gameplay.

We are basically saying the same thing, I'm probably just being a bit pedantic.

Establishing 90 overall as being equal to a 4.42 40 time is scale. There is nothing realistic or unrealistic about that though. It is arbitrary. The problem you and I both seem to have is that EA does not follow the scale they seem to have set up.

As Dan points out, the distribution is key. Makes little difference (it does matter to an extent) what point you decide should be the benchmark.

# 225 4thQtrStre5S @ 07/06/15 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggsimmonds


	I was pretty sure that the team overalls were just an arbitrary number Donny though the team deserved and not determined by a calculation using the roster. We are basically saying the same thing, I'm probably just being a bit pedantic. Establishing 90 overall as being equal to a 4.42 40 time is scale. There is nothing realistic or unrealistic about that though. It is arbitrary. The problem you and I both seem to have is that EA does not follow the scale they seem to have set up. As Dan points out, the distribution is key. Makes little difference (it does matter to an extent) what point you decide should be the benchmark.

All there needs to be is a benchmark, and then have everything else fall in line from there...

The one issue is, anyone can setup a 40 yard dash in practice mode, as I have done too, and find out what constitutes a certain 40 time...

One thing is for sure, even if a 40 time is correct, acceleration is way off in Madden...All players accelerate too fast, within the first 5 yards all players are at full speed, but split times say that shouldn't be so..

# 226 4thQtrStre5S @ 07/06/15 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	That's discouraging.

What is even more discouraging is the fact that, in settings, there is an option for "even play" thus suggesting that ratings can be altered for equal teams...

Seems to me, that equal play option can be applied to any ratings, and thus ratings can be realistic to the scouting data of players, and then for competition online play, they can just use the "even play" option..then let the rest of us play with realistic rated player teams..

Cause for the life of me, why have an equal play option, when all the rosters are rated to be equal competition to begin with?

# 227 JPBeBeast @ 07/06/15 07:39 PM

Is something like 2 settings arcade/simulation out of the question. Include a pop up stating what would change ( disparity in ratings, slower gameplay, higher fatigue etc)

# 228 ggsimmonds @ 07/06/15 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	All they need to do is get real data and mimic the statistical distribution of that data. When you do that, you find out some very interesting things about your population of NFL players. Like how if you use the same methodology for every attribute, you find that NFL player have an average SPD of 68 (if you set the best to 99 and the worst to 1) and an average ACC of 65. Madden right now has an average SPD closer to 76 and ACC closer to 83. However, in their defense, I don't think they are using the data they need to use.

This is the stuff that interests me and we've talked about before.

Madden does not use a 1 to 99 though. Doesn't it use a 25-99 scale that is heavily left-skewed?

How do the standard deviations look? I would think bigger in your data but smaller in Madden? Almost to be expected with the difference in range.

# 229 DeuceDouglas @ 07/06/15 08:06 PM

I wonder if this emphasis on "competitiveness" over realism is a good part of the reason sliders and a lot of ratings don't seem to work or are more or less meaningless. This is really frustrating to hear but I guess I'm not all that surprised. I think there's much better ways to go about making the game competitive that doesn't sacrifice realism.

# 230 mestevo @ 07/06/15 08:22 PM

I'd wonder how far apart #1 and #2 are is all.

# 231 DCEBB2001 @ 07/06/15 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon46


	Well it matters in the sense that to EA a 90 rating in speed equals a player running a 4.42 40 yard dash. Having 460 players running under a 4.42 is not realistic, only about 175 players in the NFL have run under that time. And the over inflation of speed goes beyond the 90 rated players..... So when in reality you should have about 5-10 Running Backs with a 90+ speed rating.... you get 35. I dont want them to alter the scale, I want the scale to be realistic.... this in itself will lead to more realistic gameplay.

Since 1996, there have been 1027 eligible players that have posted a 4.42 or better. That is in a population of over 30,000 NFL eligible players, meaning that about only 3% run that fast in a 40. However, if you set the best time to 99 and the worst to 1, you find that a true 90 should be a 4.36. However, we all know that you can't just use the 40 time to calculate speed. The best way to do this is to map the run using the splits for each player and find the maximum velocity.

# 232 DCEBB2001 @ 07/06/15 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kehlis


	Dan, Did you broach the topic of if you would be able to continue doing what you do (with your rosters, your site, etc.) if you agreed to either consult with them or even get hired by them?

They asked me what my ideal involvement would be. I told them that being an outside consultant would be best. Reason being is that I could keep my intellectual property. I told that no matter what route they take, I will continue my site. If they bring me in to consult or even flat out provide their ratings, it would have to be on a long-term contract (4-5 years) so I can ensure that it is worth my time. The other thing I will need is to work with the guys who do the mechanics of the motion for the game. I have an amazing idea to literally make every player run EXACTLY at the same acceleration and speed they would run in real life. Each player would run only like themselves, and it may be pretty easy program, giving you a near infinite number of possible acceleration/speed combinations for just about any player...ever.

I didn't discuss this in detail, however, but if they bring me in, it will be mentioned and could change straight line player movement in Madden forever. I am THAT confident. The best part - all based on REAL data.

# 233 DCEBB2001 @ 07/06/15 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggsimmonds


	This is the stuff that interests me and we've talked about before. Madden does not use a 1 to 99 though. Doesn't it use a 25-99 scale that is heavily left-skewed? How do the standard deviations look? I would think bigger in your data but smaller in Madden? Almost to be expected with the difference in range.

The difference in standard deviation from the real population to Madden is statistically significant. Madden's ratings are top-heavy in every category...alarmingly. Meanwhile, the data is seemingly bottom heavy, in every category. That means that for either overalls or individual attributes, Madden thinks most players are closer to 99 than to 1 and the data suggests that most players are closer to 1 than 99, making elite players more rare.

# 234 Sausage @ 07/06/15 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The big thing that was apparent is that their priority is making a competitive game over having accurate ratings. It looks like they are ""willing to sacrifice some accuracy, derived by real world data, for competitive gameplay."" Questions?

The sentence I quoted just tells me that it's still all about the same old Madden ball and not a true football sim. The new slogan "play Madden ball not pro football". Been around long enough this game is still and mainly tweaked for ranked / tournament players that can't imagine penalties, inaccurate passes, or football strategies beating Madden strategies.

# 235 DCEBB2001 @ 07/06/15 08:52 PM

BTW - Before I forget, I do want to thank the many OSers who wished me luck via forum or PM before the interview today. I really do mean to do all of this for the betterment of the community and I appreciate all of you and your enlightening discussions around here - agree or disagree.

I want to add that if OS wants to do some sort of discussion (interview or Q&A style) so I can go a little more in depth about all of this, I would be open to that. I think there are some things that, honestly, can help make my involvement happen, including making a push by the community and getting the word out there. Even a petition would help at this point.

Believe it or not they didn't even know how my ratings worked in the game despite the fact that there have been youtube videos and forum topics about the related rosters.

Not sure if that would work, but it may help. Just throwing that out there. I will tell you the same thing I told a few other people around here; this whole thing is not about me or my ratings - it is about EA incorporating real data into the game, so long as it comes from a reputable source and the methodology is sound. In that way, we all win.

# 236 King Cardinal @ 07/06/15 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	I won't speak for Rex's desire to make a sim football game, but he did say that their number one priority is making the game competitive to play, with authenticity coming in after that top priority. To me, I would make the ratings for each player as realistic as possible, then make the game fit those ratings. They are more concerned about the gameplay (making it competitive for anyone who picks up a controller) first, then the accuracy of their player ratings second.

I think Rex made the right choice by making the game competitive first because that's the charm of playing Madden. Sure adding realism is good, but taking away some of the control for the user loses some of Madden's character (not to mention the vast majority of Madden players like the competitiveness of the game). And while the news may be discouraging to some, let's not forget they finally made penalties a thing, made some major improvements gameplay wise and even making some major adjustments to speed to make it less broken (also eliminating many cheese plays). As long as Rex and the Madden team add some of the features that we have been wanting (and improving the experience) and whoever in charge of ratings is doing a good job of making them more realistic, then Madden's future is bright.

# 237 kehlis @ 07/06/15 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	BTW - Before I forget, I do want to thank the many OSers who wished me luck via forum or PM before the interview today. I really do mean to do all of this for the betterment of the community and I appreciate all of you and your enlightening discussions around here - agree or disagree. I want to add that if OS wants to do some sort of discussion (interview or Q&A style) so I can go a little more in depth about all of this, I would be open to that. I think there are some things that, honestly, can help make my involvement happen, including making a push by the community and getting the word out there. Even a petition would help at this point. Believe it or not they didn't even know how my ratings worked in the game despite the fact that there have been youtube videos and forum topics about the related rosters. Not sure if that would work, but it may help. Just throwing that out there. I will tell you the same thing I told a few other people around here; this whole thing is not about me or my ratings - it is about EA incorporating real data into the game, so long as it comes from a reputable source and the methodology is sound. In that way, we all win.

I think many would very much appreciate a Q&A thread but if I were you I would just triple check with EA to make sure they're cool with you discussing all the details of your chat.

I know they said they were okay with you talking about it in general but maybe cautious about you going into details.

I'm not suggestion they wouldn't be but just because of what's potentially at stake for you I would be overly cautious.

# 238 charter04 @ 07/06/15 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S


	I can see EA's position...Why would I want to play as the Jaguars if I am going to lose regardless of skill, because the team is that bad?

I guess that's fine for online ranked games to an extent but, in CFM most like the challenge of rebuilding a bad team. If everyone is the same then what's the point?

Certain ratings do matter already in the game. I can tell a clear difference when I play someone with much worse team than me.

It seems strange that they want to make the ratings wider to make star players stand out more but, they don't want ratings to matter to much and override the skill of the player. It's kind of a contradiction.

That's why we just need a simulation mode. Arcade, Default, and simulation.

In sim mode the players would play purely based on ratings.

# 239 redsox4evur @ 07/06/15 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kehlis


	I think many would very much appreciate a Q&A thread but if I were you I would just triple check with EA to make sure they're cool with you discussing all the details of your chat. I know they said they were okay with you talking about it in general but maybe cautious about you going into details. I'm not suggestion they wouldn't be but just because of what's potentially at stake for you I would be overly cautious.

Yea Dan you are better safe than sorry on this one. Just because they say they are cool with it doesn't mean they really are. It's like when applying to college or for a jo, they say they don't search for you on social media but they probably do it anyway.

# 240 Skyboxer @ 07/06/15 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Cardinal


	I think Rex made the right choice by making the game competitive first because that's the charm of playing Madden. Sure adding realism is good, but taking away some of the control for the user loses some of Madden's character (not to mention the vast majority of Madden players like the competitiveness of the game). And while the news may be discouraging to some, let's not forget they finally made penalties a thing, made some major improvements gameplay wise and even making some major adjustments to speed to make it less broken (also eliminating many cheese plays). As long as Rex and the Madden team add some of the features that we have been wanting (and improving the experience) and whoever in charge of ratings is doing a good job of making them more realistic, then Madden's future is bright.

Thing is though they made it so penalties aren't an issue on competitive online modes. They could have did the same with ratings.
No reason we can't have both "All teams equal for online" and "Realistic ratings for CFM leagues/offline"

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