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NBA 2K15 News Post


(Promoting this post to the homepage, written by Mike Wang, Sr. Game Designer for NBA 2K15)

Let me clarify up the design of the shot meter. In previous 2K's, shot timing was just another factor within a huge list of other things that spit out a final shot % which we then rolled dice against. So really, it was Real Player % with a bit of help from the user. But the skill of the user had a minimal impact.

In 2K15, all factors that make up a good vs. bad shot get rolled up into a value that then scales the timing window for your jump shooter. So now, timing is a much more crucial factor in whether you make or miss. This puts the onus on the user to execute with more precision and separates the skilled users from the lucky ones. It's actually very similar to the design of Free Throw shooting. You can make the shot if you manage to get perfect timing but your % falls the further you are from the ideal release point. If you're way off, it's a guaranteed miss.

It's also a much more useful feedback system. If you're unfamiliar with your players, it's much easier to get a sense of their timing by glancing at the meter. Also, it's much easier to see how close or off you were with your timing after the fact to help you learn... much more useful than the letter grade system (which is still an option btw.)

My intention was never to make shooting a "meter game." The most successful people in the office are the ones who still watch the shot animations for visual cues of when to release, using the meter only for feedback or for occasional guidance.

I knew there would be some concerns, so let me try to address those now:

- No, you cannot "master" the meter and hit every shot you take
- Yes, you can turn it off in the options menu
- Yes, Real FG% is still an option
- Yes, it is very difficult to get "perfect timing," especially on the higher levels

Hopefully that clears some things up. IMO, shooting is much more engaging now and I think you guys will like the feature.

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Member Comments
# 21 I Djm @ 08/15/14 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live2K
Hopefully fatigue and some situational things come into play. Seems like if you just run down the court with curry every play and jack an open 3 is a viable strategy whereas in real basketball it's not and leads to fast breaks the other way.
I hope the fatigue affects your success and not your range
 
# 22 Phreezy P @ 08/15/14 04:47 PM
Can you airball your free throws now and does the free throw meter also determine whether it'll miss short or long?
 
# 23 stillfeelme @ 08/15/14 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Djm
This sounds promising but does it keep people from making shots they have no business making more than they should?
I think they are going to put out something called shot fatigue where taking too many shots can drain the players over a course of a game. Mike mentioned it in a tweet. He didn't really say yet but I think there is something in the code that determines a good shot and bad shot. I expect the meter to reflect that. It will probably be related to turbo holding and dribbling for long durations and the type of shot taking probably a tendency thing
 
# 24 eko718 @ 08/15/14 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quehouston
What I got out of it:

A players shot ratings + his current situation is going to determine how big or small that "perfect timing" zone is.

So you take a fatigued player and shoot a heavily contested, off balance 3 with him, his zone is going to be extremely small, compared to a fresh player taking an open, spot up 3. So bad shots will miss with regularity, as they should. Also means players online could be punished for jacking 35+ shots with one player, as fatigue now affects shots more.

The higher the ratings = The bigger the sweet spot, though its still difficult to get perfect releases depending on the level.
Right, this is what I'm getting at. I think you're right actually after having reread his post.

Quote:
In 2K15, all factors that make up a good vs. bad shot get rolled up into a value that then scales the timing window for your jump shooter.
So it's clear that the timing window will vary from player to player, and I'm assuming specific ratings are included among the "factors" that will affect the timing window. I do however, still wonder how much influence a shot animation has on the timing window... your interpretation that the timing window is larger may be correct... that makes the most sense.
 
# 25 Da_Czar @ 08/15/14 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDAlum
Thanks for the information. That solidifies my decision to exclusively use the Real Player % as I don't want it to be a battle of who can master the shot of a terribly rated player who has an easy release to master.

I'd prefer the player attributes be the #1 factor in my game.

This is going to be amazing for the guys who really enjoy the "competition" side of things and are all about stick skills. They'll be able to craft their skills and have more control over their success which is ideal for that crowd.

Best of both worlds.
Who are some bad shooters with easy releases you guys are most concerned with ?
 
# 26 Da_Czar @ 08/15/14 05:56 PM
Just an FYI I am a sim type of player and I have not been able to abuse this on Superstar SIM. I think the key is finding the right level to play on. I have not once felt like "ok I am going to win this game now" If you know what I mean.

Mike worked and tuned this along with how well I was shooting and I think at least on superstar sim it is in a really good place.

On open shots I have that little excitement in my belly because I know I can really influence the open shots and that also puts a little pressure on you to execute especially when your down.

I usually play all star because I hate AI cheese but Superstar sim seems very balanced to me where it is right now. Def a challenge shooting wise.

I played a few games on HOF and I really had to concertrate and I only play that level with teams I know well.

Any time I felt it was too easy Mike made adjustments. But again it will really depend on what level you select.
 
# 27 eko718 @ 08/15/14 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Czar
Just an FYI I am a sim type of player and I have not been able to abuse this on Superstar SIM. I think the key is finding the right level to play on. I have not once felt like "ok I am going to win this game now" If you know what I mean.

Mike worked and tuned this along with how well I was shooting and I think at least on superstar sim it is in a really good place.

On open shots I have that little excitement in my belly because I know I can really influence the open shots and that also puts a little pressure on you to execute especially when your down.

I usually play all star because I hate AI cheese but Superstar sim seems very balanced to me where it is right now. Def a challenge shooting wise.

I played a few games on HOF and I really had to concertrate and I only play that level with teams I know well.

Any time I felt it was too easy Mike made adjustments. But again it will really depend on what level you select.
So maybe you can answer this question I asked earlier. Is there more 'grace' with the meter to be able to achieve a perfect shot with say a Step Curry than there is for a Kendrick Perkins? Is the zone within which a perfect release can be achieved larger for good shooters versus poor shooters?

The concern is an easy shot animation that belongs to a poor shooter, may produce higher shooting percentage than a more difficult shot animation that belongs to a good shooter. Maybe you can shed some light.
 
# 28 Da_Czar @ 08/15/14 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eko718
So maybe you can answer this question I asked earlier. Is there more 'grace' with the meter to be able to achieve a perfect shot with say a Step Curry than there is for a Kendrick Perkins? Is the zone within which a perfect release can be achieved larger for good shooters versus poor shooters?



The concern is an easy shot animation that belongs to a poor shooter, may produce higher shooting percentage than a more difficult shot animation that belongs to a good shooter. Maybe you can shed some light.

Depending on all accounted for factors, yes.

I asked above but post guys you are concerned about on both the bad shooter easy release and good shooter difficult release.
 
# 29 NDAlum @ 08/15/14 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Czar
Who are some bad shooters with easy releases you guys are most concerned with ?
I can't answer this until the games comes out.
 
# 30 Rockie_Fresh88 @ 08/15/14 06:21 PM
Makes shooting feel less random huh ?
 
# 31 bxphenom7 @ 08/15/14 06:22 PM
Most likely turning it off for visual purposes. I think shooting has always worked fine, except for the excessive amounts of threes but that's really if you don't play simulation style.
 
# 32 jersez @ 08/15/14 06:25 PM
Will the meter also be applied to quick release shots like hook shots, floaters and runners? How will the game handle those shot success?
 
# 33 JerzeyReign @ 08/15/14 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Czar
Superstar sim seems very balanced to me where it is right now. Def a challenge shooting wise.
SS sim isn't balanced for us online players. In fact, it doesn't even seem like the difficulty is raised at all this release.

Honestly, if ratings aren't properly adjusted, for example guys like Lebron running around with an 88 3pt rating (better than Ray Allen btw), this system doesn't seem better than the current one. It really sounds worse. Putting everything on stick skills instead of ratings will show its ugly face once guys have learned their releases.
 
# 34 JerzeyReign @ 08/15/14 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Czar
Who are some bad shooters with easy releases you guys are most concerned with ?
Not sure of his rating but I'm positive Norris Cole can hang with the best shooters in the game - ask any guy who plays MyTeam haha.
 
# 35 El_Poopador @ 08/15/14 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerzeyReign
SS sim isn't balanced for us online players. In fact, it doesn't even seem like the difficulty is raised at all this release.

Honestly, if ratings aren't properly adjusted, for example guys like Lebron running around with an 88 3pt rating (better than Ray Allen btw), this system doesn't seem better than the current one. It really sounds worse. Putting everything on stick skills instead of ratings will show its ugly face once guys have learned their releases.
You'd rather every shot be 100% dice roll?
 
# 36 eko718 @ 08/15/14 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Czar
Depending on all accounted for factors, yes.

I asked above but post guys you are concerned about on both the bad shooter easy release and good shooter difficult release.
For me, it's more of a concern of the mechanic itself. If the mechanic results in mastery of an animation taking precedence over the players ability then it will suck either way. Roster editors including myself often correct many shooting forms in the game, so I don't have any specific shooting forms in mind. And as suggested, I am hoping the shooting animation doesn't matter that much as it sounds like it may.
 
# 37 JerzeyReign @ 08/15/14 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Poopador
You'd rather every shot be 100% dice roll?
The current system, ratings play a bigger role. In this system, it seems user input is the bigger factor.

How long before us hardcore 2Kers master the timing windows? I'm sure the timing windows will still be at the top of a player's jump. What role does the ratings of the player play in this current system? I'm sure this may be answered but I don't see it answered in Beluba's explanation.

Not to continue rambling and to give my answer to your question, yes, I would prefer the current system with a little more 50/50 balance. It seems like they went to go fix the 'why am I missing A+ Excellent shots' complaints. Valid complaint but trying to please the community sometimes opens up a different another level with a different devil - I enjoy knowing my devil, thats all.
 
# 38 thedream2k13 @ 08/15/14 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eko718
For me, it's more of a concern of the mechanic itself. If the mechanic results in mastery of an animation taking precedence over the players ability then it will suck either way. Roster editors including myself often correct many shooting forms in the game, so I don't have any specific shooting forms in mind. And as suggested, I am hoping the shooting animation doesn't matter that much as it sounds like it may.
Shooting animation = shot release , yes it should matter
 
# 39 eko718 @ 08/15/14 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedream2k13
Shooting animation = shot release , yes it should matter
Read the full trail of messages. I am not saying it shouldn't matter. I am saying the same thing JerzeyReign said above.
 
# 40 eko718 @ 08/15/14 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Czar
Depending on all accounted for factors, yes.

I asked above but post guys you are concerned about on both the bad shooter easy release and good shooter difficult release.
Czar, can you try this? Choose a shooting animation you are comfortable with and apply it to both Steph Curry and Kendrick Perkins. What are the results when shooting with both of them? I am questioning the impact of ratings on this system.
 


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