Madden NFL 25 News Post

Will People Adjust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

11:33 AM - November 7, 2013 by RaychelSnr

RGIII is dangerous running the ball, but only because he is a rare talent.

One of the Madden franchises' most glaring issues in past versions of the game has been with its offensive and defensive line interaction.

The gamer never got a realistic representation of an incredibly important part of football in the line play. We ended up seeing the same two or three animations that didn�t portray any kind of realism.

Madden 25 on next generation systems is touting a new �War in the Trenches� feature which promises to not only give overhauled offensive/defensive line play, but more importantly, it promises to change the way we play the game.

Read More - Will People Adjust to the Pocket in Next-Gen Madden?

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# 61 therealsmallville @ 11/08/13 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RexDEAFootball


	I can assure all of you the new pocket collapse system has a direct and immediate impact on gameplay. Here are a just a few of the ways it changes the game: 1) It is now critical to read blitzes pre-snap, as slide protection is now a big component of protecting yourself against the blitz. 2) With 5 man protection, you can only block 5 defenders. If they send 6, one will get through. This makes hot routing TE's and RB's in to block another key strategy in running an effective offense. 3) Understanding the concept of a 'hot read' receiver with a short curl, hitch or smoke screen route is often necessary against the blitz. 4) Less time in pocket means less time to go deep. Expect to adapt and hit your check down routes like shallow drags and RB's leaking out into the flat. There are also huge upgrades in pass defense, making it more important than ever to make good reads. Rookie and Pro are still pretty safe for the casual, but for everybody else the hope is that they change their play style and employ real football strategies to adapt to the change in direction.

Rex,

thanks for coming by the forums! This all sounds great. Will d-lineman put their hands up if a QB is throwing a low pass over their heads? Will they knock the ball down?

Thanks!

# 62 wordtobigbird @ 11/08/13 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RexDEAFootball


	I can assure all of you the new pocket collapse system has a direct and immediate impact on gameplay. Here are a just a few of the ways it changes the game: 1) It is now critical to read blitzes pre-snap, as slide protection is now a big component of protecting yourself against the blitz. 2) With 5 man protection, you can only block 5 defenders. If they send 6, one will get through. This makes hot routing TE's and RB's in to block another key strategy in running an effective offense. 3) Understanding the concept of a 'hot read' receiver with a short curl, hitch or smoke screen route is often necessary against the blitz. 4) Less time in pocket means less time to go deep. Expect to adapt and hit your check down routes like shallow drags and RB's leaking out into the flat. There are also huge upgrades in pass defense, making it more important than ever to make good reads. Rookie and Pro are still pretty safe for the casual, but for everybody else the hope is that they change their play style and employ real football strategies to adapt to the change in direction.

I may be able to play random games online in Madden again. This is huge.

(and btw, this exactly when I meant when i said devs posting to clear up myths and someone said people will believe what they want anyway. of course they will, but now WE know what to expect. Thanks for the feedback Rex)

# 63 hanzsomehanz @ 11/08/13 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therealsmallville


	Rex, thanks for coming by the forums! This all sounds great. Will d-lineman put their hands up if a QB is throwing a low pass over their heads? Will they knock the ball down? Thanks!

Players already have this logic but the occurrences are rare: players known for defeats should attempt it more often.

This should be covered under the hood as one of those AI features re knowing their surroundings - true intelligence (I think its called).

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk

# 64 wordtobigbird @ 11/08/13 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanzsomehanz


	Players already have this logic but the occurrences are rare: players known for defeats should attempt it more often. This should be covered under the hood as one of those AI features re knowing their surroundings - true intelligence (I think its called). Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk

This. I've seen a few bat downs at the LOS in current gen so its definitely in there. They actually improved the tipped ball physics over previous years too, I've seen some nice tips in different situations.

# 65 hanzsomehanz @ 11/08/13 02:01 PM

While I appreciate the outline of Rex's direction: I still suspect suctioning, and blatant (static) holding that does not get called.

One thing I did value from the pocket vids was the impact of the pushing and shoving in the trenches.

From here I would like to see speed rushes blow by the edges untouched and even thru the A gaps on stunts and blitzes. This is something I could see on M13 at 0 Min speed threshold.

In M25 the roided blocking system actually watered down the effect of the run free tools as it has very much restrained the critical need for ball carry vision and special moves - just beeline to the edge and s-swerve.

The same can be said for next gen trenches if the average blocker continues to maintain his hold with no dynamic footwork in the pocket: sliding and warping to protect the blindside, static holds, tackles leaving their ground only to magnetize w the edge rusher.

There is QB avoidance (still needs work) & RB avoidance: we still need *defender avoidance.

*Defenders must try to avoid and elude blocks, especially those who lack power moves and or cannot win the leverage battle (next gen logic).

The pocket must collapse and it peeves me to oftentimes see it so flat and "static" -- the o-line tackles must bend and dig deep (rex knows this).

Instead of the warped blitz pickups and overdosed static holds: why not allow us to use the qb avoidance tool?

This is football and the same kids who play Madden also play COD and Halo - I am sure they can handle the violence of the game and "war" in the trenches.

→I wish the trench battle were more arcade like: implement some nfl blitz + battlefield tech.

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk

# 66 regroc88 @ 11/09/13 02:09 AM

where the HELL is the gameplay videos for this game it come out next week !!! EA still on that Bull**** !!! is the game not ready yet???? Sould bee all kinds of videos by now!!!

# 67 woody2goody @ 11/09/13 05:22 PM

I say they should make it as realistic as possible and if the casual/arcade gamers don't like it then tough. They all watch football. They all realise that rolling out on every play doesn't happen.

I think they'll adjust, and to be honest a lot of casual fans might be glad for the changes as it will look more like real football. In past years I've tried to make a conscious effort to pass more from the pocket but if we're forced to do so in the name of realism then I'm all for it.

Also, it will mean that if people do want to run a lot, for once they'll have to be smarter about it which will make a great Michael Vick play a lot more rewarding.

# 68 wordtobigbird @ 11/09/13 05:23 PM

As long its fun, people will play it. We all know real football is fun. If they recreate real football it will be fun.

# 69 ruttentud @ 11/09/13 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpdavis82


	I think some people will complain, but some people have always complained. If what Kolbe has in mind for this game gets implemented, I've been told some people (casuals) are going to HATE Madden in the future. They have been talking about making some drastic changes towards simulation with Kolbe. He's all about simulation, so if he has much to say about it, I would expect a lot of casuals to be very upset with the direction this game is heading. From what I've been told by people who have played next gen Madden 25, is that you will have a 2-3 second window to throw the ball and make your reads, due to the realistic pocket forming now. The pocket is not going to be forming artificially at all, Clint Oldenburg has been working day and night on this line play stuff and I think people need to be more appreciative of what he's doing. If everyone over there worked as hard as he has, this game would be something very special. The last thing we want to do is start bashing him and push him away, instead of encourage what he's trying to do, especially before we have ever even played the game.

I'm unsure, but doesn't Clint just kinda sit there and tell people what to do? He's not actually programming or anything like that, is he?

# 70 4thQtrStre5S @ 11/09/13 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RexDEAFootball


	I can assure all of you the new pocket collapse system has a direct and immediate impact on gameplay. Here are a just a few of the ways it changes the game: 1) It is now critical to read blitzes pre-snap, as slide protection is now a big component of protecting yourself against the blitz. 2) With 5 man protection, you can only block 5 defenders. If they send 6, one will get through. This makes hot routing TE's and RB's in to block another key strategy in running an effective offense. 3) Understanding the concept of a 'hot read' receiver with a short curl, hitch or smoke screen route is often necessary against the blitz. 4) Less time in pocket means less time to go deep. Expect to adapt and hit your check down routes like shallow drags and RB's leaking out into the flat. There are also huge upgrades in pass defense, making it more important than ever to make good reads. Rookie and Pro are still pretty safe for the casual, but for everybody else the hope is that they change their play style and employ real football strategies to adapt to the change in direction.

Excellent information if it all works in actual gameplay....A big concern of mine is the proper use of player attributes; as we have all seen from online videos that just with the offensive line, you can replace all the players with 5'6" 160lb linemen with all ratings set to "5" and there is no difference in blocking...Just hope that size/weight and all attributes will be playing a true and effective role in M25 NG...

# 71 mestevo @ 11/10/13 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghettogeeksta


	Im not sold their will be a real pocket in this game. Its probably another half done, over hyped feature.

Given the videos we've seen I don't see how anyone can think that. Drop back too far or ignore the pocket and you will be eaten alive as far as we can tell.

Looking forward to having to actually step up rather than roll out or back further whenever there is pressure.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

# 72 msdm27 @ 11/10/13 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mestevo


	Given the videos we've seen I don't see how anyone can think that. Drop back too far or ignore the pocket and you will be eaten alive as far as we can tell. Looking forward to having to actually step up rather than roll out or back further whenever there is pressure. Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

You mean the videos manufactured by EA under controlled circumstances that could only show positive aspects of what they were touting? And even in those we could see some sliding/canned animations :/

I'd say we have no proof, positive or negative, as to whether these changes work.

# 73 NDAlum @ 11/10/13 03:17 PM

I have to agree with the above. I'm just holding out judgment for a few more days. If I had to put money on it I'd say that the game will be exploitable and the tourney/arcade guys like sgibs and all them will find ways to exploit the game for high percentages of success.

# 74 24 @ 11/10/13 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDAlum


	I have to agree with the above. I'm just holding out judgment for a few more days. If I had to put money on it I'd say that the game will be exploitable and the tourney/arcade guys like sgibs and all them will find ways to exploit the game for high percentages of success.

I think that people will always find a way to exploit something. It's impossible to make it perfect so someone with enough time on their hands will find a bug and find a way to exploit it.

I'm trying to withhold judgment as well. I'm hoping something magical happens and EA completely blows us away with something we've never seen before. At the same time I'm not expecting it to happen.

# 75 TeeDogg @ 11/10/13 04:05 PM

Rex if you are still reading. It would be nice to have the animations put back in for LBs and DBs biting on Play Action. I see the would be ball carrier tackled occasionally in the back field, but I haven't seen a second level defender bite in years. occasionally one should peruse the run, then stop and scramble back into coverage. We will also need occasional bite on pump fake animations. preferably the flow of the game and awareness ratings would be big factors in frequency.

if playing QB is truly going to the nxt level in difficulty we need these tools to be more than just for show.

# 76 wordtobigbird @ 11/10/13 04:07 PM

http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/11/08...boys-vs-saints

Watch how these guys play. How the guy rolls out with Brees every single play. Hopefully this stops on next gen.

# 77 ThunderingHerd06 @ 11/10/13 10:17 PM

I don't know much about the whole oline/dline thing in the game because well it never has been realistic. Passing game in general over the past few years has just been way too easy. I mean I actually stopped playing this year because just to try and make realistic #s I had to purposely throw the ball away. I was playing on all madden difficulty with the Falcons and still completing 85% of my passes, rarely getting sacked and definitely no INTs. My biggest problem isn't animation or pockets or any of that.. it has to do with realistic passing (QBs need to be less accurate and throw to spots instead of at receivers.. the DBs need actual reaction ability too) the best way the QB accuracy has been done was with the QB cone in Madden 06. Still was my favorite madden of all time because of this feature that so many people seemed to hate. Fact is better QBs had better window to pass and if you weren't in the cone looking your receiver you were inaccurate it made the whole passing more realistic. Maybe if you could at least do something not quite like that but similar that helps. Or for that matter the HORRIBLE reaction in general by defensive players not being controlled by users needs to be fixed. The game is way too offensively focused and that needs to be fixed.

# 78 LBzrule @ 11/11/13 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RexDEAFootball


	I can assure all of you the new pocket collapse system has a direct and immediate impact on gameplay. Here are a just a few of the ways it changes the game: 1) It is now critical to read blitzes pre-snap, as slide protection is now a big component of protecting yourself against the blitz. 2) With 5 man protection, you can only block 5 defenders. If they send 6, one will get through. This makes hot routing TE's and RB's in to block another key strategy in running an effective offense. 3) Understanding the concept of a 'hot read' receiver with a short curl, hitch or smoke screen route is often necessary against the blitz. 4) Less time in pocket means less time to go deep. Expect to adapt and hit your check down routes like shallow drags and RB's leaking out into the flat. There are also huge upgrades in pass defense, making it more important than ever to make good reads. Rookie and Pro are still pretty safe for the casual, but for everybody else the hope is that they change their play style and employ real football strategies to adapt to the change in direction.

This is great stuff to hear. Sounds better than CG already. Sounds... Now my follow up question is when will pressure be more about the total number of guys you send to a particular spot. For instance, if we outnumber the offense on the weak side 4-2 and my other guys from center to the strong side drop out in coverage, can we get a free runner? After all it is 4-2. This is without slide protection of course. I would really like to see overloads and deceptive looks play an enormous role with defensive play.

# 79 Hiro1 @ 11/11/13 09:47 PM

I just want slide protection to matter again. Nothing is worse than calling a blitz overloading left side of the line only for the right tackle to slide all the way to the left side of the line to pick it up.

# 80 Pokes404 @ 11/12/13 05:37 PM

If they do create a realistic pocket and cut down on the scrambling, why not have the game take people straight into a "Pocket Presence" training drill the first time they fire up the game? Show them how rolling out and/or dropping back 20 yards is not the best way to buy yourself time with this new blocking system (and in real life). Maybe even show them a few examples of when you should escape the pocket (such as a DE crashing inside and losing containment). Even if "arcade" players aren't as interested in realism, they're usually pretty good at adjusting to the game if you just show them how.

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