Madden NFL 13 News Post

Run/Pass Commit In Madden NFL 13 - Make it More Realistic

11:36 AM - June 11, 2012 by LBzrule

In episode 230 of Madden Daily, Sgibs revealed that run/pass commit is in Madden 13. Check the video out here:

Also I've already submitted this to the appropriate folks at EA. But this is where the community comes in. If they don't see a big reaction they are not going to address it. So you guys need to chime in. I don't want the Run/Pass Commit in Madden 13 to be like NCAA which is an all or nothing affair and which also does not focus on gap control/force/containment. To me this is EA's chance right here to do something really great. To see run/pass commit in action in Madden 13 see this video: Browns vs Seahawks.

7:18 in this video you see run commit left. I don't like it like this. I don't like the complete nullification of the defensive play called and having everyone sell out. Here is what I sent to the devs.
Can you guys make the following tweaks:

1. The run commit only activates against run plays. This way it operates more like a run fit, which is more realistic than having complete sell outs against the run and plays into their read and react defense theme. Allow Play Recognition to govern whether guys bite on Play Action.

2. When committing left or right, edge defenders; DE's and 3-4 OLB should step up the field and set the edge.

3. All other defenders in the front seven, with the exception of the backside DE or OLB, should simply attack the next gap over.

4. Backside DE/OLB should step up field first as if he is looking for boot action or reverse, then trail the play.

So for the 3-4 for instance you would have something like this

In the above diagram you have the defense in the base 3-4 with the DE's in 5 and the NT head up center. As the diagram shows, all the guys are going to do is hit the next gap over. So if I go run commit right then the DLine should look like this from left to right. B A C. RDE takes backside B gap; NT takes right side A gap; LDE takes right side C gap. RILB has backside A gap, and LILB has front side B gap. Edge players step up and set on the right side; back side player steps into the back field checking for backside boot, reverse and playing cutback. So that would actually look like the following:

Notice the NT LDE and RDE. Based on their alignment they are only going to fire to the next gap over. Also whether the offense runs right or left, there will always be a backside player.

Let's take some other examples from the 4-3 Stack and Over

4-3 Stack

Run commit left here (might be different since the direction is based on looking at the screen and this diagram is at the back of the defense, but you should get the picture)would have Duckett/Seawright firing to C, Jospeh firing to A, Strahan stepping up field to set edge, Osi stepping up field backside looking for boot, reverse, if neither are there trail the play down the line. Pierce has left A then scrape, Arrington left B then scrape (I only advocate this for Madden since all they can probably do is get guys to fire to the next gap over. In real life Duckett Seawright would have B and Arrington would have C) Emmons backside B then scrape.

4-3 Over

Let's go run commit to the right from the backside of the defense. Strahan, backside contain player looking for boot, reverse and then just trailing play; Joseph to A; Duckett/Seawright to B; Osi Fire to C. Arrington checks C; Pierce Check A; In Madden Emmons would be on the line of scrimmage so, Fire up field and set edge.

I would also hope it is clear that run commit does not automatically mean that I stop the run even if I have the "right" fit call. It should mean a great deal given certain offensive plays. For tosses it should work great if I have the right call. But against a wide zone, it should be less automatic because if the linebackers run outta there too quick, cutback lanes should be there, especially if the back side guy over pursues.

This is very important. Please do not have the defenders just arbitrarily running right and left. Have them hit gaps, step up and set the edge, play backside contain, pursuit. This is a chance to do something really nice for run defense IMO.

Pass commit. Can this be used to change the rush angles and engage points of the DE's/3-4 OLB's with the OT's. Can we get the engage point much deeper and closer to the Qb as he is dropping?

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Member Comments

# 81 speedy9386 @ 06/13/12 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	Hell No. That's the biggest reason why I wrote this. And I think getting underneath the underpinnings of why EA added it to the game reveals that it is a GIMMICK to deal with abuses in their game. Rather than going to the meat of the problem, they keep putting a band aid on it. Now I will say that the language and logic makes sense in practical scenarios. For instance, in life, if I am on a field running right then I cannot be going left. That type of logic makes sense. Ahh, but that is not how defensive football works one bit. Was just reading Dean Pees this morning and he had this to say about playing Ravens defense. Credit Baltimoreravens.com Kevin Byrne The key one for this discussion is the one in the middle. That one right there should tell anyone that there is no such thing is BLINDLY doing whatever. It's always about reading and reacting. What it boils down to and I am not going to necessarily disagree with gibs, bootz ect because their argument is on a different plane. They arguing from within the Madden program and how things work and how they can be balanced in that regard. I'm arguing about something outside the program that needs to be in it and is a better solution than the gimmick.

Well if that's the case then I don't know why this is even a discussion. If it doesn't happen in real life then it shouldn't be in a simulation football game, point blank period.

# 82 speedy9386 @ 06/13/12 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdevil20


	If this is the mindset that Tiburon is going to continue to have then they need to stop doing 2 things. 1. Stop promoting your game as the most authentic NFL simulation ever - especially since you don't even have all of the proper rules implemented in the game. This is a major fundamental area of the game. 2. Don't bitch when you constantly get flack about your product or get compared to 5 year old unlicensed games that have a much more realistic portrayal of the NFL than yours. Knowing AJ, I can't imagine him NOT wanting this in the game. He was very critical of the run fits and gap assignments in Madden 10. If we are talking about making a simulation, fixing this should not be incredibly hard. It's 90% there in APF, Madden should go to 100%. What may seem to be insignificant on the outside, these types of things add up into creating an uber realistic game and a great experience for us football nuts to enjoy.

Surprisingly it seems like the people that buy the game make more excuses for them than the actual devs do.

# 83 ch46647 @ 06/13/12 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	The run pass commit is the nfl equivalent to the MLB yelling "toss right" or "run left". If you are on the d line and your teammates yells that you are naturally going to follow that direction. It's up to the user to make the correct determination and obviously if he chooses wrong you could get smoked. Risk/reward at its finest. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

What does the "pass commit" do CR?

# 84 speedy9386 @ 06/13/12 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	The run pass commit is the nfl equivalent to the MLB yelling "toss right" or "run left". If you are on the d line and your teammates yells that you are naturally going to follow that direction. It's up to the user to make the correct determination and obviously if he chooses wrong you could get smoked. Risk/reward at its finest. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

But I don't think that just because that happens the d line just ignores their assignments.

# 85 videlsports @ 06/13/12 04:21 PM

I never Liked it, I wish they would not put this in because it Cheapens the E xperiance. Run Pass Commit stops the stratagy instead of forcing you to pick smart defensive plays.

# 86 LBzrule @ 06/13/12 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	The run pass commit is the nfl equivalent to the MLB yelling "toss right" or "run left". If you are on the d line and your teammates yells that you are naturally going to follow that direction. It's up to the user to make the correct determination and obviously if he chooses wrong you could get smoked. Risk/reward at its finest. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Outside of a few players who have done that, when have you seen guys yell toss right/left. They will say WATCH the toss right or left/ but most of the time aint nobody committing to nothing until that football is snapped. And even then, guys don't just go out of there and do what they are told. I'm reminded of a game between the Ravens and the Colts where Ray Lewis told Bart Scott before the play toss right toss right. On the snap Bart Scott still stood there as if he didn't know what the offense was doing. There goes Joseph Addia up the side line for a 30 + yard run. Ray Lewis said "Man I just told you toss right." So it still does not justify the gimmicky feature that punishes the offense just because you called it. In real life there are just too many variables. Suggs got reached. Did he hear Lewis say toss right? We don't know. Some players do not hear the call. Some players even when they do hear the call are slow to react and get blocked which is exactly what happened to Bart Scott on that play. It is not a simulation to real life my friend.

Let me just stay within your logic for a second. Even if I'm on the defensive line and my teammate tells me watch the zone left. I can only hit the next gap over. So if I am the NT I hit the A gap and get on the outside shoulder of the Center. That's still an assignment. That's not blindly running all the way to the left side of the field like run commit in Madden/NCAA has it. Somebody still has to have a gap; somebody still has to set the edge; somebody still has to play contain or else when we get to the sideline that's where we will be for the rest of the game. And even when we do all of that sometimes the guy in front of me is just a great football player and I got blocked. End of story. I tried to set the edge, but he got the best of me. I tried to get to the Center's outside shoulder but he walled me off.

Again run commit in Madden/NCAA is not realistic and plays out unrealistically.

# 87 LBzrule @ 06/13/12 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedy9386


	But I don't think that just because that happens the d line just ignores their assignments.

They don't. Nobody does. I just gave an example from a Ravens Colts game a few years back and even though Ray Lewis was right in telling Bart Scott toss right before the snap, they still gave up 30 yards as Addai went right up the side line because Bart Scott got sealed inside and Suggs got reached. Secondly, if Lewis would have said toss right and it would have been a pass play I guarantee 100% they would have dropped into their zones. He just would have been wrong that it was toss right. You still have to read and react. And sometimes even when someone is completely correct about everything, that still does not mean the play is going to get stopped like run commit does in Madden/NCAA. It is a gimmick feature that attempts to deal with abuses in EA's game. I don't think it is anything more or less than that.

# 88 LBzrule @ 06/13/12 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by videlsports


	I never Liked it, I wish they would not put this in because it Cheapens the E xperiance. Run Pass Commit stops the stratagy instead of forcing you to pick smart defensive plays.

I think it sets a very dangerous precedent if they do not make some changes to it. I'm not going to be the least bit surprised to see Quarters, Dollar base defenses, run commit and then have superb coverage against every offensive formation.

# 89 RyanFitzmagic @ 06/13/12 04:49 PM

Haven't read through the whole thread (tried searching keywords-- didn't work), but if you choose "Pass Commit" and they run a playaction, it'll make your players less likely to fall for it, right?

# 90 LBzrule @ 06/13/12 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	This is what I was referring to back in post #31 on page 4 of this thread about discussing how to make an unrealistic to real football, invented for Madden feature, more realistic. You can't, without removing it or completely changing into something else, imo. Audibles and no huddle are implemented unrealistically in Madden but they are realistic to football, unlike the run/pass commit feature. So we could discuss how to implement the audible and no huddle feature differently to function more like the NFL but run/pass commit functioning like the NFL, wouldn't exist as preplay control feature. I so want to be a part of this discussion because I am all for anything making Madden play better but I just can't figure out exactly where the focus is on this topic. Are we trying to make the current run/pass commit feature more balanced conceding that it's unrealistic or are we discussing how to realistically represent run/pass commit?

Big I'm glad you asked these two questions. My initial effort was to do both; namely talk about the unrealistic nature of the way Run Commit is in Madden/NCAA and then propose some solutions on how if they really want to represent run/pass defense in the NFL, NCAA or HS at the snap, I think those four solutions would be adequate tweaks to using the R Stick pre-play. They might need to change the language from commit to something else just to eliminate confusion.

Then I made a move to just saying maybe they can accomplish it by just changing the nature of the crashes (left/right).

# 91 LBzrule @ 06/13/12 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanFitzmagic


	Haven't read through the whole thread (tried searching keywords-- didn't work), but if you choose "Pass Commit" and they run a playaction, it'll make your players less likely to fall for it, right?

Yes. This has a plus and minus side too. Yeah on 3rd and 2 I might call it. But why should I need to call it on 3rd and 20. Given Madden's history, you need it for the latter situation as much as you do for the former

# 92 Senator Palmer @ 06/13/12 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdevil20


	How do the lineman actually react in a "pass commit"?

In the past, as it was in NCAA, which this seemed to have been lifted verbatim from, the linemen were more likely to jump the snap. As you know, everything about the interactions along the lines in both games is wins/losses. So, the pass commit didn't activate any more animations like a spin, or an inside move, it just made your linemen more likely to quick-win their match-up by jumping the snap.

But I'm wondering if this is going to be the case in Madden 13, because "jump the snap" was taken out a few years ago. So, did "jump the snap" make a return, or is something else at work?

I'm also wondering what this means for 3-4 outside linebackers, because "jump the snap" ONLY ever applied to down linemen when I played NCAA. As it was when Madden introduced the "edge rush" defensive line adjustment, it had no effect on the rush of the linebackers.

I'm really hoping that's not an oversight that's been repeated here.

# 93 LBzrule @ 06/13/12 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	For the most part they will in the nfl unless they are playing an outside technique with strict contain responsibility. Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

CRM, my question is what is the basis for the claim? Where is the evidence? What coaches, players ect call or do anything like run commit in Madden/NCAA and have it work like it does in these games? Lastly, is there a youtube video or something of said evidence? Is there a reference book on football that advocates any of this? I'm only asking these questions because I see the claim that it is realistic and that it is NFL based. If that's the case there should be some evidence out there for it. I'm curious to see, what it is that you've seen watching an NFL game that you think this feature represents.

# 94 videlsports @ 06/13/12 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	I think it sets a very dangerous precedent if they do not make some changes to it. I'm not going to be the least bit surprised to see Quarters, Dollar base defenses, run commit and then have superb coverage against every offensive formation.

Maybe if they can Have you pick a line ,Like the option to have linebackers run Commit, or Secondary, or Defensive line seperately, but then again they have plays that are designed that way. NA Still don't like it. Too many people use it online. And your right too many people will pick Quarters and Run Commit Like NCAA.

# 95 Blue Ninja @ 06/13/12 06:59 PM

If anything, it should only be done pre-snap, and most definitely not too extreme to where the defenders ignore all the gap assignments. Then I could see this being a nice addition, if they plan to play one side aggressively offence can call counters/misdirections, if they pull right towards the middle offense could beat them outside, and ofcourse PA should torch them unless a LB/DL with a great awareness sees it and decided that abandoning the assignment and get to the QB is the best play in the middle of the play, they committ to pass then draws would counter it...If its done right, it'll add more chess game and would make it even more realistic imo.

# 96 KBLover @ 06/13/12 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	The run pass commit is the nfl equivalent to the MLB yelling "toss right" or "run left". If you are on the d line and your teammates yells that you are naturally going to follow that direction.

So...why would the OL not block them on run commit?

Why should it be an instant TD if the "guess" is wrong? Sure, guys should be out of position, but one block and TD each time?

Representing communication is one thing - for it to do what it did in the video is ridiculous, imo.

Ratings should not be negated. A highly AWR player should recover faster since he realizes the mistake in the call. A bad player shouldn't shoot through because "the commit was correct".

That's not football. That's not respecting ratings or abilities. Even in a pure "competitive gaming" sense - it removes differences in personnel, team strengths/weaknesses, etc.

Why is that a good thing?

# 97 KBLover @ 06/14/12 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	Should run commit shut down the run? No but you defenders should all have an easier time of getting gap control in that direction if called correctly.

They were doing more than just getting gap control in the video. And why would the defense communicating cause the offensive line to not block? That what was happening in the video. I didn't say you said anything - I'm referencing the video that was posted, not you.

It was causing the OL to not block (negating their ratings), allowing the defense to come free (not requiring much from them) and all of that negates the HB.

As far as gap control - that should just be in the game. What I saw in that video LB put up wasn't gap control - just blockers not blocking. And based on what LB said when running against the counter, that's equally bad.

Adjusting gaps to attack is what crashing should be for. What exactly is run/pass commit doing that PRC and AWR can't/isn't doing - and why have this instead of AWR and PRC doing it?

# 98 GuideMe1 @ 06/14/12 03:33 AM

Listen to me Madden players...U DO NOT WANT THIS FEATURE IN MADDEN! It is in NCAA currently & it completely ruins the online gaming experience. Run/Pass Committing is basically a cheese/cheat! It turns your defensive players into hall-of-famers. On Run Committ, D-linemen move faster than the offensive lineman can pick them up--On Pass Committ, defenders play the ball in the air as if..as if..as if they are Hall of Famers! It's crazy looking on NCAA & it allows ppl to get away with terrible play calling. I can't believe that such a gimmick is even being entertained. If U don't know what it is, download NCAA 13 demo or rent NCAA 11/12. Trust me, U might think that it's cool in the beginning, but in 1 month, U will demand that the feature be removed. There is a growing contingent, including me, that count it as an awful addition to the NCAA series.

# 99 GuideMe1 @ 06/14/12 04:03 AM

With RC & PC, U can have an absolutely terrible team & hang with an elite team, simply be utilizing this "feature"(gimmick). Yes, there are ways to beat it, but why should I have to now waste my time learning how to beat a gimmick, when I could be spending my time more constructively in learning how to actually play the game. Me & my friends call it the Swarm bcuz of how fast it makes the players move. Please don't do this EA. I love EA Sports games, but this is not good for your franchise.

# 100 jyoung @ 06/14/12 02:57 PM

All of these features need to be taken out of the NCAA series:

--Run/pass commit
-- Jump the snap
-- Telling the CPU to automatically attempt ball strips on every tackle

These are all just unfun, gimmicky gameplay mechanics that people abuse like crazy online, to the point that it ruins the head-to-head online play for NCAA.

The ratings should determine how players react on the field, not some cheesy feature that overrides all the ratings and turns everyone on the field into supermen.

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