Madden 12 News Post

Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

02:51 PM - January 19, 2012 by RGiles36

Grantland's Tom Bissell, has posted an article discussing Madden NFL and the future of video game sports. Quite a few interesting topics of discussion inside.

Quote:


	On this point, Weber was surprisingly forthcoming: "We read the forums, we read the consumer feedback, we read reviews. I think in general there's a feeling that EA's football titles are starting to feel a little bit stagnant in terms of how you play them. And while the games have progressed on a graphics and rendering and A.I. side, how you experience them, and how you play them, hasn't changed that much, especially in this generation of consoles. Clearly, the way sports games are played, and the way Madden in particular is played, is ripe for some massive paradigm shift. Why doesn't the quarterback position feel as visceral and pinpointy as firing a rifle in a first-person shooter? Could you make the experience of being an offensive lineman as interesting as anything on the ball? Why, for that matter, is running the ball such an isometric experience? When I put these and other questions to the Madden team in Florida, many of them smiled.

You'd have to read the lengthy article to put those quotes into their proper context, make sure you check it out, right here.

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Member Comments

# 41 roadman @ 01/21/12 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	Understood but does one have to be linked to the other? It seems like the last regime would say something like, we can't add realistic penalties without an in-game save feature and that is hard to implement. One shouldn't prevent the other from being in the game. Also, there is currently no mode that I am aware of, offline or online that has the realistic pace of a 60 minute NFL game. If someone adept at playing Madden was to play 15 minute quarters, even on All Madden difficulty, I cringe to think how much yardage and how many potential points would be tallied. For starters, I would love to see personnel packages actually come on and off the field again like they did back in the day in Madden. One of the most arcadey elements that linger in next gen Madden is the timing, imo. Gamers that just want the "highlights" of the NFL in a video game "quickie" should be catered to in NFL Blitz, not a NFL simulation. It's cool if you or anybody else only has the allotted time for an one hour or less game with 5-7 minute quarters and I would love to see in-game saves added. However, that doesn't mean that a shortened game should have to playout at an arcadey pace, in the meantime.

I wish I played 5-7 minute quarters, but I don't for. I play 12 minute quarters and finish in 1 hr and 15 minutes.

Yes, call me selfish if you want, but I don't see any reason why we can't have increased penalties and a save option in 2012.

If you are saying that we can't have save options to forsake more penalties, then I would need to adjust the minutes downward and I don't feel I should need to do that.

# 42 roadman @ 01/21/12 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	I am just saying the two are separate additions and one shouldn't be dependent on the other. If realistic penalties were added without an in-game save feature, like you stated earlier, it should be an option, that anyone could turn off or on. No need for anyone to adjust minutes. I would also like that same type option for the game to playout in real time, including broadcast and player's moving on/off the field.

Yes, there are separate additions, but both additions I would really want. I'm not the only one that wants saves in games.

Sorry, Big, but people have been asking for in-game saves at OS for years. There's more people than me out there that would love more penalties and a in-game save feature, too.

To me, it seems like you are trying to accentuate which one is more important. I envy people who have time to immerse themselves in a football video game, but there is a market that has family, commitments and just want to chill for a while after working a long full day and spending time with the kids. The only time I have on the 360 is after 10pm at night. If people are fortunate not to use an in-game save feature, that's great, but I would think there would be support even if you don't need it. It's all about options, right? I don't play online at all, but I support the online community in obtaining the same amount of features as the offline people do.

I really don't think an in-game save feature is out of the realm of possibility, especially, since it was discussed during a podcast last summer.

# 43 pegout @ 01/21/12 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	I am surprised to hear this but I don't play the CPU and have only ran offline franchise with friends. I would think that you are policing yourself to play the CPU on 15 min quarters without putting up inflated stats but maybe not. I know there is no way me and my friends could play a Franchise with 15 min quarters with realistic stats unless we created some house rules. lol

got ya. iv only played one person using 15 min Q with the run down to 10 sec wasnt to high scoring like 35-42 or something(using custom sliders) but my friends did it on all madden and the score got in the 100 by the third Q but that was last years madden

# 44 roadman @ 01/23/12 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	I belive 90% of Madden fans would be happy w/ a Madden 12.2 and not this yearly cycle of BS. EA, take a 3-4 yr development cycle and just use your Tuner Sets and Patches to update M12, 12.2, 12.3, etc. I get tired of hearing the memory and the time constraint excuses from EA. How much data can be stored on Blu-Ray disc EA? Didnt they dude say he has no limit to what can be stored on the software, so that means its the F'n hardware thats limiting them! Its sad that we are in 2012 now and game developers are still being held back because of the lack of advancement in hardware and software technology(mainly microsoft). Its just as sad that EA has been throwing out features(ie. vision cone) and adding other crap yearly(pink arm bands and stickers). Come on man!

Unfortunately, the license mandates they come out with a yearly game.

# 45 Smoke6 @ 01/23/12 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfos81


	I belive 90% of Madden fans would be happy w/ a Madden 12.2 and not this yearly cycle of BS. EA, take a 3-4 yr development cycle and just use your Tuner Sets and Patches to update M12, 12.2, 12.3, etc. I get tired of hearing the memory and the time constraint excuses from EA. How much data can be stored on Blu-Ray disc EA? Didnt they dude say he has no limit to what can be stored on the software, so that means its the F'n hardware thats limiting them! Its sad that we are in 2012 now and game developers are still being held back because of the lack of advancement in hardware and software technology(mainly microsoft). Its just as sad that EA has been throwing out features(ie. vision cone) and adding other crap yearly(pink arm bands and stickers). Come on man!

Its just another excuse to me from them as always. Dont get me wrong, I am enjoying this game more that I have others but these issues have been present since last gen and the same exact excuses were being made then.

Now we're on to better hardware and still here the SAME STUFF about limitations. But there are other games this generation that push the envelope feature wise and in the gameplay department and I still dont understand there excuses. Like someone said earlier, leave the cosmetic stuff like towels, handwarmers, and socks and sutff alone and lets focus on the core issues at hand.

Running backs at full sprint after the ball is handed off with no momentum needed.

Foot planting and physics that will keep people from taking much higher risks doing things like Running starts with their safeties before the ball is hiked and are still able to make plays on the field no matter what.

Players playing out of position or being moved manually to the opposite side of the field. The Risk v Reward system is all screwed up. Anyone remember when "hit stick" was introduced and the devs said if you missed that you "paid" for that gamble? Bring that back!

Wr/DB animations play out the same regardless of situation, i dont see any jostling between the players and for the love of football, why is it that when I have a WR taking a Safety or corner for a deep ride to open up the field for me underneath, that the DB can make it back before I can even gain some true ground when his back was turned the whole way down field?

Illegal touching

Illegal contact

Pass Interference (been in previous madden on inferior hardware)

Not every catch attempt should result in the same animation whenever we choose to. It should actually play off the situation more than it should be in the players hands like it is now. As it stands only 2 type of passes are being made and that Rocket Catches and those Over the Shoulder side line catches.

Specific player moves and agilities are a thing of the past, I want to know and see Jared Allen on the field! Suggs, Peppers, Osi, JPP and the others aswell.

Too many "blind deflections" go on aswell, when have you ever seen a defender with his back turned toward a play only to "perfectly deflect" almost 9-10 times a game.

Not too many passes hit the ground without getting touched by someone in the secondary, dunno whats the issue here with it but its not right for some reason.

Throwing across your shoulders has to be tweaked too, too many times I have seen someone full sprint to the sideline only to throw perfect strikes to the other side of the field.

Grey out WR's who are out of sight in getting the ball as accurately as they would get it if the QB was in a better position to throw the ball. Another Risk v Reward type of thing.

I could go on but you guys get the gist of it, I know its a "video game" but im tired of hearing that as being an excuse to why the game gets abused by online players like it has been.

# 46 cmidd @ 01/25/12 08:15 AM

What happened to the "A year is not enough time to make significant improvments" excuse? Now its a console memory issue?!? Soccer has 11 players on the field per team, crowd AI, etc. fifa's devs aren't making excuses their making great games

# 47 tfctillidie @ 01/25/12 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	Game devs from all over the world have recognized Madden for the difficulty of programming a football game at the E3 conference. Only guys that don't program anything fail to recognize this difficulty. Console limitations has always been the 'excuse' because it's the reality of developing games... Football is easily the hardest sport to program because of the resources required to calculate all of the collisions required to simulate the sport. Soccer isn't even close to the same programming difficulty... Calculating each collision require resources. Soccer NEVER has more than one to three player simultaneous colliding. Football ALWAYS does. The challenges are NOT the same even though the number of players is. Later

IIRC Naturalmotion's game had the GPU calculating it's collisions which I don't believe is the case with Madden.

It's silly to deny how much potential that kind of technology has, it was simply designed by a very small team with no real interest in making a good football game, they just wanted to showcase their technology with it. Put that in the hands of a larger team with EA's resources and we might see something incredible, but that's not something we're going to see anytime soon...or ever.

So lets not paint a picture that "football games" are like this, EA's style of sports game is like this and creates this difficulty based on it's own design choices. For example, you could free up computing power if the game isn't constantly referencing animations from memory, which in turn frees up space for data which they have explained is a limitation for them in the past.

Simply put, EA's way is not the only way to make a game. Their limitations are from their own design.

# 48 DJ @ 01/26/12 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	Nice post... While I don't write software, I have a decade of user support experience. I'm sure you'll agree that the USER is always the wildcard. The USER may press the wrong button, but still wants the right thing to happen and will be frustrated when it doesn't even if it's his fault. That said, you said that building code properly takes effort and time. No doubt, the effort is there but how much can you really do within a 9-month cycle - especially when support for the previous title continues after the title release. As odd as it sounds, it makes me nostalgic about the days when there was no after-release support, patches, updates, or online communities to rail against the game... IMO, in the history of console video games, only 3 fall into the category of "GOOD." Super Tecmo Bowl, Madden, and NFL2K - in chronological order. The rest of the pro football gaming choices have ranged from ABYSMAL to barely passable. This speaks to the difficulty of producing a football game... That said, what we have now as a NG football product is a casualty of the first 3 years of NG Madden. Those 1st 3 versions were horrid and it took 3 more years to get back to a 0 point. Madden 12 may have been in our hands years earlier had it not been for the scramble to reverse the course and correct the "Ortiz" years... In essence, the pooch was screwed and the code was built wrong and we are suffering because the game tried to go in a different direction from Madden '06-'08. We're 3 years behind where we ought to be. Later

I'm in agreement with you on this generation of Madden; they've been trying to dig themselves out of a 3-year ditch. With Madden 12, they got close to the surface of where they likely should have been ... back in 2006.

It is what it is at this point. Bringing in Kolbe from SCEA was a HUGE move, imo, for EA and Madden. I think he, along with Cam, get the game to break through the dirt and reach the surface in the next couple of years.

# 49 kjcheezhead @ 01/26/12 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	Nice post... While I don't write software, I have a decade of user support experience. I'm sure you'll agree that the USER is always the wildcard. The USER may press the wrong button, but still wants the right thing to happen and will be frustrated when it doesn't even if it's his fault. That said, you said that building code properly takes effort and time. No doubt, the effort is there but how much can you really do within a 9-month cycle - especially when support for the previous title continues after the title release. As odd as it sounds, it makes me nostalgic about the days when there was no after-release support, patches, updates, or online communities to rail against the game... IMO, in the history of console video games, only 3 fall into the category of "GOOD." Super Tecmo Bowl, Madden, and NFL2K - in chronological order. The rest of the pro football gaming choices have ranged from ABYSMAL to barely passable. This speaks to the difficulty of producing a football game... That said, what we have now as a NG football product is a casualty of the first 3 years of NG Madden. Those 1st 3 versions were horrid and it took 3 more years to get back to a 0 point. Madden 12 may have been in our hands years earlier had it not been for the scramble to reverse the course and correct the "Ortiz" years... In essence, the pooch was screwed and the code was built wrong and we are suffering because the game tried to go in a different direction from Madden '06-'08. We're 3 years behind where we ought to be. Later

The thing is, they didn't reverse course from the Ortiz years. As others suggested, they could've reworked Madden from scratch for a year or two and released updated versions of an "Ortiz year" game. They didn't. They chose to continue to build off of what was clearly a broken foundation instead.

They have also made mistakes post Ortiz. The horrendous commentary in Madden 12 is based off coding done post Ortiz. The team also chose to get Madden Ultimate Team and Team play off the ground while completely ignoring both online/offline franchise in the process...more choices that delayed the growth of the current core game modes.

You also bring up the only "good" games in football history, but fail to mention Gameday. Whenever I hear about how difficult it is to get Madden right, that game comes to mind. Remember, EA said 3d players weren't possible and 989 proved them wrong. Forgive me if I don't something can't be done because EA says it can't.

# 50 roadman @ 01/26/12 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	The thing is, they didn't reverse course from the Ortiz years. As others suggested, they could've reworked Madden from scratch for a year or two and released updated versions of an "Ortiz year" game. They didn't. They chose to continue to build off of what was clearly a broken foundation instead. They have also made mistakes post Ortiz. The horrendous commentary in Madden 12 is based off coding done post Ortiz. The team also chose to get Madden Ultimate Team and Team play off the ground while completely ignoring both online/offline franchise in the process...more choices that delayed the growth of the current core game modes. You also bring up the only "good" games in football history, but fail to mention Gameday. Whenever I hear about how difficult it is to get Madden right, that game comes to mind. Remember, EA said 3d players weren't possible and 989 proved them wrong. Forgive me if I don't something can't be done because EA says it can't.

You are right, I just think the transition from LG to NG was a big downfall for them, they weren't ready for it.

No one back then said, double the game play team, either.

Someone has now.

I just hope the new Madden team keeps reading this stuff. The anger from year to year doesn't go away and it won't go away until people are satisfied enough that the game is a better representation of NFL football.

# 51 roadman @ 01/26/12 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdevil20


	I think Ortiz made a lot of mistakes, but he wasn't the one making the decisions. Everyone is clear to defend Ian Cummings because he used to hang around here, but no one blames him like they blame Ortiz for everything. What about the colossal fail that was online "franchise"? The decision to make a separate franchise mode on the server... WRONG! The revamping of sideline catches and running animations... We heard Ian mention it 100 times. I showed two videos of him talking about it. One was from 2007, the other 2009. Both were nearly identical talking about how "this year's game finally has it". Really? SMH. Madden 11 was a total fail - basically zero improvements from 10. The whole pro-tak nonsense was an embarrassment as well. Pick which one you want to blame - it's the console, no it's David Ortiz, not it's disk space! You know what? All of it is complete and utter bull. The fact of the matter is, it was the team making the game. They did a lot of things wrong, and they didn't stop after Madden 10. Madden 12 has plenty of problems remaining, but the worst part is, it's the best Madden we've seen in 7 years, which is really sad Hey, it's a good thing what Cam Weber claims he is trying to do, but Tiburon won't earn any respect from me until I actually see it. Every year is the same set of empty promises and disappointing let downs. We do have Chase and AJ there, which is a really good thing. Doubling the size of the gameplay team? Well, more developers can be good, but it's not everything. I work on a team at my job of 4 total developers, and we churned out an enterprise level product in 11 months. It's got A LOT of great features too. "More" does not always equal "better", so be wary of the fact that it may not translate to better gameplay. The real failure in Madden came when EA wanted to make the game something for "everyone". This is where the whole "greed" thing comes into play. They have a successful franchise in Madden for 20+ years. Now they want to grow it, expand it, etc. etc. When you try to make a game that is suitable for 30 year olds who know football while also try to make that game playable by your average 10 year old, it's not going to work. Make the game a true simulation, the 10 year olds and the casual pick up and play guy won't know the difference, but the majority of Madden gamers will.

I used to blame Ortiz because I heard he was trying to make the game for the tournament crowd and because I truly believe the Madden 10 and 12 were better than 06-09.(yes, people, I know that isn't saying much)

Now, I just blame the whole system instead of pointing the finger at one person. How the heck do I know what goes at in Orlando?

All I know there is a ton of pent up anger year after year because Madden isn't replicating the NFL. I never said more on the team will make it better, but it's a start in the right direction.

I expect the doubters to continue to doubt and the haters continue to hate until the game proves them otherwise.

# 52 roadman @ 01/26/12 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	Gotta disagree completely - but only because I've been to Orlando and had face to face conversations with devs who were working to reverse the course of the series after 3 years of NG creative direction under Ortiz. Whether those 3 dev teams (06-08) were making a game for the tournament crowd or not isn't certain - but they certainly weren't making a game consistent with what we knew as the "Madden" brand. I always assumed there was a 2K influence, but I've since been informed that the "Ortiz 06-08" didn't feel like 2K either. I played 2 games of Madden '06 on 360 a few days after launch... HORRIBLE isn't strong enough a word to describe how alien the game felt despite having some of the basic controls. The sprint button became more like a "Turbo" when it moved to the trigger, the play call screen, and the movement of the players all felt extremely foreign (not US/Canada foreign - more like US/Borneo foreign). When Madden '09 came out, so many elements had to be stripped out and rebuilt from scratch to give Madden back it's Madden feel. Foundational elements as simple as the grass had to be rebuilt because the Ortiz led dev teams felt field degradation was more important enough to usurp the resources that would have been for game play. The result was a game that played STUPID. The flight of the ball was actually designed to move toward a player's hands instead of moving the hands toward the ball... The dev teams that came after Ortiz, (Ian and Phil moving from LG to NG) couldn't FIX what was broken foundationally - they were forced to SCRAP and REBUILD. If that's not reversing course, I don't know what is. Later

Not sure where the disconnect is?

# 53 kjcheezhead @ 01/26/12 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	Yes. I agree there have been some mistakes post-Ortiz. I fully expect there to be mistakes post-Cummings and in the future post-Weber (he won't be there forever). If the pattern persists, Cam will be off the dev team in 3 years. Also, the development of MUT didn't come from the dev teams, per se... They were charged with finding a way to make use of new technologies to drive more revenues from DLC and new game sales because the rise of the used game market drastically cuts into EA's profit margin. I can't comment on commentary - I always turn mine OFF and listen to the field sounds instead. I bring don't bring up GameDay when I mention good games because it SUCKED. Yes, GameDay 98 had 3D models but that's where the goodness ended. Despite the eye-candy of the player models - Madden '98 sprites still made it a better game to play and replay. But GameDay 98 was good enough for me to buy GameDay 99 - which remains the only game in any genre that I've ever returned to the store. It wasn't as good as the 98 title. IIRC, that year was the last time I bought a console football game NOT named Madden (that's right, I've never played 2K but I still know a good game when I see it). Later

Pro-tak, fight for the fumble, unfinished online franchise, commentary/sound are just a few examples of poor features just like MUT and Team play is an example of a questionable calls in what the team chose to work on between Madden 10 and 12. They are all equal to Ortiz's additions as far as I can tell. You point out field degradation being a silly thing for the Ortiz team to concentrate, yet fail to mention Ian pointing out animated hand towels and having the proper number of refs make it into Madden 10. I don't see the difference myself.

As for the Gameday series, give some credit where it is due. The Gameday series went downhill fast but 98 was a really good game. A company like EA doesn't take a year off from Madden and lose all those sales to match something that sucks.

# 54 roadman @ 01/26/12 06:22 PM

KJ;

I wouldn't blame Ian for the hand towels, blame OS.

This place was screaming for them and they put it in.

Otherwise, you are spot on.

# 55 kjcheezhead @ 01/26/12 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	KJ; I wouldn't blame Ian for the hand towels, blame OS. This place was screaming for them and they put it in. Otherwise, you are spot on.

I don't really blame Ian for the miscues anymore than I believe Ortiz was at fault when he was in charge. I also believe it will continue under Cam Weber.

My point is the same as what I said way back on page 3. I don't get excited to hear about a new lead designer or doubling of the team size because it doesn't seem to matter. It could be the suits deciding on the next 3 year plan or the NFL eliminating animations deemed too violent, idk. Whatever it is, really questionable decisions continue to be made year after year.

# 56 jyoung @ 01/26/12 07:45 PM

A lot of people thought Gameday was a great game, including EA Tiburon.

From the Grantland article:

Quote:


	One of the Madden devs I spoke to still remembers 2K5's day of sneak-attack infamy: "It scared the hell out of us." NFL Gameday proved an arguably tougher opponent (from the same dev who was scared by ESPN NFL 2K5: "We were always nervous about Gameday. We wanted to crush them")

# 57 KBLover @ 01/27/12 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	I bring don't bring up GameDay when I mention good games because it SUCKED. Yes, GameDay 98 had 3D models but that's where the goodness ended. Despite the eye-candy of the player models - Madden '98 sprites still made it a better game to play and replay. But GameDay 98 was good enough for me to buy GameDay 99 - which remains the only game in any genre that I've ever returned to the store. It wasn't as good as the 98 title. IIRC, that year was the last time I bought a console football game NOT named Madden (that's right, I've never played 2K but I still know a good game when I see it).

You and me both. I sent GameDay 99 right back where it came from and went back to Madden. Stayed there until 08 when it left PC and begrudgingly gave this console-focused play a chance. And even then, I didn't get 11.

I did play 2k5 (for PS2) and loved it, but the main reason I even got it was the $20 price. I just can't get 2 football games both at $50+. I couldn't do it then or now and since Madden was still on PC then, I stayed with it.

If the situation was the same now, I might be on the 2K boards right now. Who knows.

But as far as new team members or whatnot - I'm in wait-and-see, year-by-year mode. Just like with real life sports teams, new members don't necessarily mean improved performance. Sometimes it works, sometimes you get more of the old with new faces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	IMO, the disconnect is US. We, the target audience, want and expect vastly different things from our football gaming experience. Because of that, EA is 'chasing it's tail' trying to please everybody everywhere with one product that is packed with features and functions that never seem to get finished...

Disagree that we all want vastly different things. NFL-like gameplay will placate the vast majority of players of any mode.

But, let's say what we want is very diverse. I don't see that as an excuse.

OOTP can please all the "factions" of it's fan-base - from people who want to run a MLB-style league to people who want fictional setups that, literally, can span the globe, to those who want the college and high school levels represented, to the historical replay type folks. I can, literally, have hundreds of teams handled by the game, tens of thousands of players, all being tracked, along with hidden players you can discover, and everything else.

All with full customization and editing of anything relating to a player. Didn't Ian say that allowing Users to edit players would mess with the code or something? What? It's a number in a database..

MLB the Show seems to do a very good job of the same, and has a better "put yourself in the game" mode (RTTS > Superstar).

Yeah, I know, football is hard. However, they chose that burden themselves. Being an NFL player is hard, doesn't mean we forgive poor play or poor teams. They knew it was hard, and they chose to do it. So do it and do it right. I hold game designers to the same standard. I know it's hard. Programming is hard. It's also a challenge they took upon themselves.

And besides, as a business making a product - you have to expect a diverse customer base (unless you're a niche company). It's like being a fashion designer. Not all women like the same dresses and skirts and blouses and shoes - how often do you hear a designer say "women like too many different things so I can't please them all!" as if to blame the customer base for his own lack of vision or inability to create new lines.

And I think that's what you're doing in a way, blaming us for EA's inability to be more creative in its development and fleshing out the various modes.

I mean, seriously, online, franchise, head-to-head "pick-up" games are pretty much the staple of every non-text sim sports game ever. At the heart, the on-field action is going to be the same in all three. It's still 11-on-11 NFL football. So if that's nailed down, well that takes care of a chunk of all the modes. There's not much more to do for the "pick-up" games and for ranked online matches - you're pretty much done too. That leaves online/offline franchise mode, online team play, and MUT.

From what I understand, MUT is basically the same game, just your team is whatever cards you have in your deck (kinda like football Pokemon), so it's still 11-on-11 football. Online team play is 3 vs 3, no? So just a scaled down NFL football-type game, like doing a 7-on-7 drill. Same concepts, just fewer players.

And franchise mode - why didn't they think of DPP earlier? Or bring roles back earlier? It couldn't literally take them 6 years to say "oh, hey, that role stuff was a half-decent idea".

It's not our fault EA is just now getting Madden to 2005-2006 levels.

It's not our fault that EA doesn't refine anything, but strips it out and replaces it with a new flavor of the year feature.

It's not our diverse interests that dug them in the pit. That's their own design choices.

It's not our fault that they seem to be trying to patch things on top of broken and bloated code. I mean, slow menus? Really? Is it really that hard to tell the PS3 to show a list of numbers? Come on.

They need to strip it down and start over. No, you can't do all that in 9 months, so what they should do is release the "bare bones" game (at a fitting price, maybe try the $20 strategy) that's focused on getting 11-on-11 NFL football right, and then release the rest as DLC when they can flesh it out right. I mean, I love franchise mode, but I can keep stats on a spreadsheet like I did as a kid. If that was the price of getting true NFL-like play, I'd suffer for the cause. Heck, with the way I have to run 32-teams to get something as basic as run/pass ratio right...

I hate to keep bringing up OOTP, but that's what they did to transition between 6 and 7. They took a whole season "off" so that Markus could develop the game to something he thought fitting. And that's basically a one-man "team".

Why can't a big development house accomplish this? Why can't they "take a year off" from developing anything NEW and just IMPROVE what's existing. Take that year to improve the code, make it more efficient. Take the year to implement a couple facets of football intelligence in players. Take that year to add more realistic physics. Tweak the ball physics and and add true player locomation/weight/momentum concepts.

# 58 TMJOHNS18 @ 01/27/12 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	I imagine EA being a bus driver with 5 million passengers - each with a different destination. One person wants to go to Wyoming, another wants the bright lights of Chicago, while someone else wants to go to the moon. In trying to accommodate everyone's wishes no one ends up where they want to be before the bus runs out of gas. LOL

I'd say it's more like the cash cab, EA ask what they want in the new Madden and they get so many different answers at once that time runs out and most of the wishes get kicked to the curb. What do they end up with? A few very happy people, some moderately happy, and many still wanting something else.

I almost wish EA would not make Madden 13. Not because I'm tired of buying Madden (gotta get my fix), but because I'm tired of them doing so little every year. They don't seem to have the same innovative spirit we see with other sports franchises and have seemed to rely too much on their brand recognition for sales instead of advancing Madden.

To think if what they could really do if they had a solid year of just working on the game. Instead of having to fix a few issues with the current release, add some in for next year and quality test them (well... you'd think they do but we all know that might be skipped...) is a bit much. If they could take a step back, look at the entire package, and have an extra year to really dive into it, I think they could really do something amazing with what they have.

# 59 Thunderfan @ 01/28/12 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	LOL... I love that show! And I like the analogy. That said, there are far more people happy with Madden in the other 38 communities I am a member of than here at OS. By far there are more disgruntled people here than anywhere else I've been. But like you said, there are so many answers to the question - EA is at a real loss as to how to make all the people who are disgruntled more gruntled (it's a word now... lol) Later

How can they be at a loss as to how to make the NFL gaming fans happy? Maybe they could start with why they are disgruntled.
Just by reading that top 5 list, pretty much summed it up for me. Does EA read these boards?

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