Madden 12 News Post

Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

02:51 PM - January 19, 2012 by RGiles36

Grantland's Tom Bissell, has posted an article discussing Madden NFL and the future of video game sports. Quite a few interesting topics of discussion inside.

Quote:


	On this point, Weber was surprisingly forthcoming: "We read the forums, we read the consumer feedback, we read reviews. I think in general there's a feeling that EA's football titles are starting to feel a little bit stagnant in terms of how you play them. And while the games have progressed on a graphics and rendering and A.I. side, how you experience them, and how you play them, hasn't changed that much, especially in this generation of consoles. Clearly, the way sports games are played, and the way Madden in particular is played, is ripe for some massive paradigm shift. Why doesn't the quarterback position feel as visceral and pinpointy as firing a rifle in a first-person shooter? Could you make the experience of being an offensive lineman as interesting as anything on the ball? Why, for that matter, is running the ball such an isometric experience? When I put these and other questions to the Madden team in Florida, many of them smiled.

You'd have to read the lengthy article to put those quotes into their proper context, make sure you check it out, right here.

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Member Comments

# 21 kjcheezhead @ 01/20/12 12:00 PM

I read an article like this last year and the year before. Here is the one from last year.

Overall, it's not a bad read but it doesn't get me any more or less excited about the team in place. Stale gameplay, lack of presentation/story, and player interactions aren't something the Madden team hasn't been aware of for years.

I also gotta say that I'm getting a little tired of hearing of the rendering 22 players on a field problem. I think on the whole, Madden does a solid job of assigning the proper players the proper tasks. It's how these things animate that is so frustrating. Db's mirroring the wr routes and defenders coming off blocks the instant the ball carrier gets close isn't what we should be seeing.

# 22 roadman @ 01/20/12 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	Overall, it's not a bad read but it doesn't get me any more or less excited about the team in place. Stale gameplay, lack of presentation/story, and player interactions aren't something the Madden team hasn't been aware of for years.

When is the last time you heard a public official from EA speak about stale game play of Madden to the media?

# 23 RGiles36 @ 01/20/12 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	It's always fun to speculate and I kept picturing a new position specific field level gameplay view option when reading that part. Just seems like a rather simple addition that instantly adds more immersion and realism. imo.

Yeah, speculation is all we can do this time of year, so let's have at it!

I too thought of field level gameplay, but how much bang for their buck will they get with that? I don't have a firm grasp on what experience the average Madden fan wants, but would anyone really want to play as an OL? A tight end? A safety? I think people would give it a shot, but it wouldn't be a preferred method of playing the game. I don't think it would be a simple addition to make every position on the field playable -- not to mention developing control schemes for each position and most of all finding a way to make those various positions fun.

I did like what Roy Harvey spoke to though, as far as streamlining the experience and being able to provide various levels of depth for different gamers. A lot of us are getting older

. I'd like to be able to customize my gameplan from my desk at work. Or do some franchise scouting online or something. I'm not sure what direction they're going in, but I think there's definitely a market who could appreciate being able to take their game (franchise) with them.

# 24 kjcheezhead @ 01/20/12 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	When is the last time you heard a public official from EA speak about stale game play of Madden to the media?

They do it everytime new developers get on board. Ian Cummings was going to move away from Ortiz's arcade direction. Now Cam Weber is on board and they are going to a more simulation and NFL broadcast style.

This as close as the execs actually come to openly speaking out about stale gameplay anyways...

Quote:


	On this point, Weber was surprisingly forthcoming: "We read the forums, we read the consumer feedback, we read reviews. I think in general there's a feeling that EA's football titles are starting to feel a little bit stagnant in terms of how you play them

So the feedback Cam Weber reads is that the game is starting to feel stale? Really? Come on, Man! EA can go back and read feed back for any version of current madden, it pretty much the same. Presentation is not existant, game modes are too shallow/bare bones, animation/interactions are bad.

The part of the artricle we are talking about is only about a paragraph long by the way. The rest of this article discusses EA watching NFL film, picking John Madden's brain apart and meticuously making the best football game possible with technology available. Either that, or it discusses EA's challenges like casual/experienced gamers, and how to make a sports game "artistic".

This article doesn't spend a lot of time dicussing the staleness of Madden, or any other of Madden's shortcomings.. and when it does it usually talks about sports games in general.

# 25 roadman @ 01/20/12 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	They do it everytime new developers get on board. Ian Cummings was going to move away from Ortiz's arcade direction. Now Cam Weber is on board and they are going to a more simulation and NFL broadcast style. This as close as the execs actually come to openly speaking out about stale gameplay anyways... So the feedback Cam Weber reads is that the game is starting to feel stale? Really? Come on, Man! EA can go back and read feed back for any version of current madden, it pretty much the same. Presentation is not existant, game modes are too shallow/bare bones, animation/interactions are bad. The part of the artricle we are talking about is only about a paragraph long by the way. The rest of this article discusses EA watching NFL film, picking John Madden's brain apart and meticuously making the best football game possible with technology available. Either that, or it discusses EA's challenges like casual/experienced gamers, and how to make a sports game "artistic". This article doesn't spend a lot of time dicussing the staleness of Madden, or any other of Madden's shortcomings.. and when it does it usually talks about sports games in general.

All I asked was when the last time you read a Madden executive talk about the stale game play. I don't recall Ian coming out and saying Madden's game play was/is stale, do you?

Cam Weber hasn't been on board a year, yet, and he was suppose to know before he came to Madden what the Madden forums were all about?

Puzzling to me.

# 26 jmik58 @ 01/20/12 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danknugmelo


	They need to omve away from Madden and get in people who are more familiar with how football is played NOW. Madden hasnt coached since, what, the late 70s? And he hasnt announced in 4-5 season. Game has changed and left him in the past.

You've taken a lot of criticism over this comment but I had a similar thought when reading about Coach Madden's involvement with the game. It was well known that Al Davis held back the Raiders franchise by infusing his 1970's philosophy into a team that tried to compete in modern times. I don't put John Madden on that same level, but I do think it would be constructive to have input from others who have current/recent coaching and/or playing experience on the pro level.

Anyone who watches the NFL can say "Oh, the bubble screen is trending this year," or "Rugby punts are something we need to add because teams do that now," or "The nickel back should line up here because that's how it's done in a base defense..."

John Madden's experience is either in the past or on a viewership basis where he doesn't understand modern schemes and modern philosophies to the extent that is possible.

He never coached/gameplanned/scouted any of the current players and/or coaches that run the present NFL game. I doubt he has taken the time to break down modern day blitz packages or coverages. As a commentator he may have been the guy who used the telestrator to help "educate" viewers, but he doesn't go to the levels of a Chris Collinsworth to really explain the "why" and the "how" of the intricacies of each play.

John will tell you that Marvin Harrison was supposed to be here and usually is there, but sometimes he's not going to be there.

Chris Collinsworth will tell you why he should be there and why he was or wasnt, and what the other team or players did to make that happen.

Schematics/philsophies are evolving on a yearly basis in football. Coach Madden isn't breaking down film and drawing up adjustments on a weekly basis anymore. He hasn't done that for decades.

The game is in the present and moving forward. Madden has good fundamental insight, but he lacks the present day knowledge and innovation that is alive in younger, more recent coaches and players, etc.

I respect John Madden and think he does a fine job providing input. But we need some modern day John Madden's riding shotgun to help bring the X's and O's of the gameplay along.

The fundamentals and basics of the game may never change and for that reason Coach Madden is a great asset. But his contribution can't reach a dynamic level like that of someone with more recent experience and input.

# 27 roadman @ 01/20/12 05:28 PM

^^^^

Very good well thought out post.

I'm not convinced Madden is as much as behind the times as people may think he is. He was very much involved in the hiring process of the Raiders new GM. He surely can't talk about yesteryear when interviewing the GM's, he has to talk in the now and the future.

We don't know what Madden does in his off time. He may consult with other teams in the league and knows what schemes they run.

He has a lot more time being retired than he did as announcer to keep up on things. If he is consulting with the Madden team, I would think and say he needs to be up to speed with what is going on now, not in the past.

# 28 Rocky @ 01/20/12 08:45 PM

The 22 players excuse is quite ridiculous IMO. It isn't like Madden is the first and only 11 on 11 football game ever made.

# 29 shadia147 @ 01/20/12 09:05 PM

Here's my problems with this article;
1) The writer openly admits to not watching "American" Football or Video Games regarding Football since the 1980's. So then , why exactly is he giving us his opinion??
2) As mentioned earlier, I'll reinterate... In all these breifings and watching games on TV, Has John Madden actually SEEN the video game himself? Or is he just getting "feature " Briefs from the Devs? Much like the articles we get from the same people hyping the game every year. It's one thing to have people TELLING you how wonderful the game is, it's another thing to actively be involved with PLAYING the game and seeing the issues yourself.
3) None of the DEVS actually played football beyond the high school level... This above everything else is a problem. You gotta have people who know the game involved with the game. Otherwise all this other stuff is all for naught. It has nopoint of reference.
It's like having Ken Burns tell us what it means to be a Jazz Musician.. How would he know if he's never played an instrument? Or been to a club? Or been on Heroin, or been discriminated against becauseof the color of his skin? How would Ken Burns qualify as an authority?
I ask the same question of this writer.

# 30 roadman @ 01/20/12 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadia147


	Here's my problems with this article; 3) None of the DEVS actually played football beyond the high school level... This above everything else is a problem. You gotta have people who know the game involved with the game. Otherwise all this other stuff is all for naught. It has nopoint of reference.

Did you read the whole article?

Cam Weber started at QB in college, Larry Reichardt played QB in college and I know I'm missing some others who played college football.

Actually, Larry wasn't in the article, but I've know that from the past he played QB at one of the Florida colleges, which isn't low level.

# 31 shadia147 @ 01/20/12 09:39 PM

Sorry, I stand corrected. Nevertheless, they played at a very low level. I think one played in canada which is not the same.

# 32 shadia147 @ 01/20/12 09:42 PM

I've said this before.. But to me the perfect guy to have on the Dev team would be Peyton Manning.
A) He's a master of play vision.
And B) He probably plays the game in his spare time.
He'd be a natural to take over the Madden name some day.

# 33 huskerwr38 @ 01/21/12 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky


	The 22 players excuse is quite ridiculous IMO. It isn't like Madden is the first and only 11 on 11 football game ever made.

Yes I'm tired of this excuse as well. They act like they are the only ones who have ever made a football game. APF 2k8, NFL 2k5, and last gen all did it better in terms gameplay than any next gen Madden. There should no excuses.

# 34 sactown_13 @ 01/21/12 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huskerwr38


	Yes I'm tired of this excuse as well. They act like they are the only ones who have ever made a football game. APF 2k8, NFL 2k5, and last gen all did it better in terms gameplay than any next gen Madden. There should no excuses.

Hell, i thought last gen's maddens did a excellent job also. While some of this gen's games have been fun they lack the depth and pure football of the games on ps2/xbox imo. maybe its because im getting older and remember those days so fondly...

# 35 sactown_13 @ 01/21/12 01:32 AM

Madden 10-12 were improvements from the past installments on the next gen but whenever i purchased my ps3 back in the day i expected them to build on the success from the previous consoles. i didnt expect to have to wait till madden 10 to get a enjoyable game of football. here's to hoping this next installment will fix some of those gameplay issues that make me turn off my console.

# 36 roadman @ 01/21/12 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	Out of this post, I have to agree about the penalty system. We have been all but assured about the presentation, including commentary, highlight show, etc, being upgraded but the penalty system might be the simulation "canary in the coal mine" for M13. The developers keep stating that they are reading the forums and taking note, so if that's true, I don't see how they can ignore penalties and challenges another year. I don't know if I would go so far as to boil down M13's success or failure for me on one area but I just don't see how they can have simulation credibility on authenticity and being "True to the game" if such a routine penalty like pass interference is continually treated like an afterthought.

Big, you probably heard me before say this, but the answer to that in the recent past is that more penalties called would take longer to play the game. It was said that gamers were getting a half an hour on the NHL game.

In contrast, my games take an hour and 15 minutes as it is now on Madden. Now, that is a good chunk of time with a family. A save feature then would come in handy, but I heard from Mike Young that that would be costly to implement.

So, maybe they have a button for sim and arcade and just know that sim games are going to take much longer with the inclusion of more penalties.

I'd reach for the sim button, but I know my time is precious as it is.

# 37 Gotmadskillzson @ 01/21/12 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cre8


	I am trying to understand if this is an issue with physical memory on a disc or RAM from the console. Makes me wonder if this will change with the new rumored consoles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	I personally would say disc since it is developed on 360. HdDVD has much less disc space tan blu-ray

It would be the console. Have nothing to do with DISC space since most PC games come on ONE DVD and they have better AI.

# 38 roadman @ 01/21/12 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adfletch71


	Hey roadman, I have too disagree with there idea of football if there not going too be true to the game with penalties. If they think it's too long for the game too be played, then that's the purpose of penalty sliders. If u don't want certain penalties called, then turn them off altogether. There no excuse that pass interference is called once in every 5-10 games. Also there is no fighting for the ball between players as well, so that might be another reason because of the animations. They need to add more animations so that the animations can play out too a offensive or defensive penalty. They can't get away with this after 8 years on the console and years of complaining from the community.

Fletch,

That's why I said, click on a button for sim or click a button for arcade/default.

Sim = all the penalties to your hearts content and arcade/default some penalties.

Isn't options what we are ALL looking for.

# 39 roadman @ 01/21/12 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	I feel what you're saying and I remember that "reasoning" being offered up in the past. However, that's my point about penalties potentially being an early indicator of just how much the POV for creating Madden has actually changed from the past. I read Cam and the current developer team stating all kinds of things about NFL authenticity instead of that old mantra espoused by Ian/Phil of balancing realism and fun. However, if their actions in how they create the game still seem to adhere to that old concept, what they state in interviews won't mean a Hover Dam thing in relation to Madden being more realistic. Like Adfletch stated and you alluded to, there seems to be no good excuse for not having the option for more authentic penalties. Also, this makes me wonder when Madden will actually have a mode that generally represents real time in relation to a NFL game. There needs to be some mode in Madden where points are at a premium instead of these 20-28 min four quarter yardage fests. I would love to have to literally fight for every yard and set up a true playcalling Gameplan and strategy for yardage instead of the Pop Warner style, basketball pickup game pace, currently in Madden.

Yep, I want more penalties, but I want a saves option also.

As far as your last statement, as far as offline goes for me, that depends what team you are playing with or against. To me, there seems to me more open offenses this past year until they go up against a killer defense. The Packers and Saints come to mind. I've heard Aaron Rodgers state he wants to keep the pedal on the gas. Patriots are another team that does this.

# 40 pegout @ 01/21/12 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big FN Deal


	Also, there is currently no mode that I am aware of, offline or online that has the realistic pace of a 60 minute NFL game. If someone adept at playing Madden was to play 15 minute quarters, even on All Madden difficulty, I cringe to think how much yardage and how many potential points would be tallied.

iv played 15 min Q for the last 2 maddens the most ever scored on me was 59 and the most iv scored was like 52 most the time i avg 300-400 total yards while the cpu get like 300-350, plays split pretty much down the middle 60-65 me 60-65 cpu sometimes i get more somethings they do

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