NCAA Football 12 News Post

New Features Aren’t All Free in NCAA Football 12

09:13 AM - May 26, 2011 by Steve_OS

Kotaku's Owen Good chimes in with some of his thoughts surrounding the latest micro-transactions to make their way into NCAA Football 12.

Quote:


	There may not be any optimal time to tell gamers about all the microtransactions and DLC for which they can expect to pay extra in an upcoming release. But the official reveal of a game's main features -- the stuff folks expect to come with the $59.99 retail price -- would probably be the least optimal.

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# 141 N51_rob @ 05/27/11 12:58 PM

I just remembered a problem that needs to be fixed from NCAA 11. In all three of the dynasties that I was in last year, in an off-season, the comish no longer could advance the dynasty and couldn't give control to some one else. I beleive they couldn't even get back into the dynasty. (an example of the problem can be found in the OS Vets threads as it happened to both the 360 and PS3 leagues)

They dynasty had to be restarted using an old save file that another member had and they became the comish. So If I pay the $2.99 and the problem pops up again, what is going to be EA's response? Full Refund credit for next year? If this feature had been in last year, with how awful the servers were at times (some bowl game dropping after the first play was picked. Formations in bowl games that cause the connection to drop.) how sure are they that this stuff won't happen again?

File had to be loaded by a different user to be the comish.
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2041451009

Formations causing bowl games to drop.
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2041696199

Championship game being dropped and having to be simmed.
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2041984236

My point being I have no problem paying for some online features, but of the services I paid for aren't working after the fiasco that was NCAA and even Madden 11 what is EA going to do with customers who are not satisfied with the services they purchased?

# 142 kbmnm247 @ 05/27/11 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poopoop


	We're talking about a company that once sold AFL jerseys as DLC for Madden. Yeah they don't have a history. I'm gonna laugh if/when they release the gamestop pre-order uniforms as DLC this year. I'm sure there'll be a line of people telling me why that's ok too though. And no competition wouldn't eliminate DLC, but we'd be much more likely to get the most value for our money. That's the whole point. EA has it made, they don't have to worry about any comp and like the article points out they can charge for DLC with little to no backlash from the consumers. Again props to Kotaku for at least trying to change this.

thank you for being one of the only other voices of reason in this thread. Every post you make I fully agree with and it's my exact feelings. Half of the posters I'm reading are arguing against us and then later they post an anecdote that completely agrees with what you've been trying to say.

Look, companies can make money WITHOUT ridiculous questionable DLC. GAMEPLAY is what sells, not dreads, grass kicking up, online dynasty advancements remotely, etc.

Why is NHL winning game of the year awards? Because 2K was on their heels and they had to do something or else they'd lose their market.

Why was the Madden after 2K one of the best ones released? Because they had competition and knew it was only way to get the maximum revenue.

Why is FIFA much better now and taking unbelievable strides compared to what it used to be? Because Pro Evo Soccer came in and was starting to pull some gamers their way.

None of this has anything to do with DLC. Business is business and they are in it to make profits I agree. But EA Sports only does this because they CAN, period. If you don't see that then you need to look closer.

# 143 kbmnm247 @ 05/27/11 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	And in the "good old days" before DLC I remember actually playing football games without the real NFL teams OR players period. What is wrong with EA charging for the AFL uniforms? It's an EXTRA, you didnt have to have those to play the regular, traditional NFL game. I guess my question to you is this, why does EA owe you the throwback AFL uniforms free of charge?

Because there were games played during the regular season with teams wearing said uniforms.

Why do they owe you any uniforms at all?

ODogg, you're obviously a mature adult if you've played Atari 2600, so how can you just be accepting all of this and what is given to you and siding with these huge power corps?

Why do they owe you anything year to year? Why are you asking questions that are just going to create horrible situations in the future for gaming consumer if all of us just accept all of this as standard?

# 144 4solo @ 05/27/11 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbmnm247


	thank you for being one of the only other voices of reason in this thread. Every post you make I fully agree with and it's my exact feelings. Half of the posters I'm reading are arguing against us and then later they post an anecdote that completely agrees with what you've been trying to say. Look, companies can make money WITHOUT ridiculous questionable DLC. GAMEPLAY is what sells, not dreads, grass kicking up, online dynasty advancements remotely, etc. Why is NHL winning game of the year awards? Because 2K was on their heels and they had to do something or else they'd lose their market. Why was the Madden after 2K one of the best ones released? Because they had competition and knew it was only way to get the maximum revenue. Why is FIFA much better now and taking unbelievable strides compared to what it used to be? Because Pro Evo Soccer came in and was starting to pull some gamers their way. None of this has anything to do with DLC. Business is business and they are in it to make profits I agree. But EA Sports only does this because they CAN, period. If you don't see that then you need to look closer.

I just don't get it b/c all games sell DLC whether they have competition or not. Don't get me wrong, I understand your POV with DLC but if you continue to buy the game every year you are just as much at fault. The only way to eliminate the company that "monopolized" the industry is stop buying their product.

# 145 kingkilla56 @ 05/27/11 01:22 PM

This argument boils down to how you see it. Is the dealership charging you extra for power windows? Or is the dealership charging you extra for the rear axle?

The ability for commissioning 5 dynasties online is equivalent to power windows to me. Without it, my car is still rolling fine.

[/weak analogy]

# 146 jeremym480 @ 05/27/11 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattbooty


	I'm coming in late to the game on this thread, but I've posted in similar threads over the last week. The one major point that hasn't really been mentioned yet in this thread is that web-enabled content requires ONGOING server/infrastructure costs to keep running. These are costs that increase proportionally to the number of people who use the feature. It doesn't cost EA any additional money if 1,000 or 1,000,000 people buy NCAA 12... but it is a significant difference if 1% or 50% of those use the web-enabled features and those costs are ongoing, it is not a one time deal. These are not features they had to add to the game to be competitive (as there is no competition) or sell more copies (as mostly only hardcore fans want this feature and 99% of them are buying the game anyways). They did it because the hardcore fan was clamoring for it (which was noted in the article in OP). The only way they were going to add these features was to find a way to offset the server costs they would need to add to support them (with development costs on top of that but infrastructure costs alone justify this). I do not believe we are looking at a question of do they offer these web-features as paid DLC or free, I think it is more do they offer them as paid DLC or not at all. A VERY small % of consumers (if any) will buy the game strictly because of these particular features, so considering the additional costs to support them these features are a money pit. Without recouping some money on them, what possible motivation could EA have to add them in? Yes, EA has to improve the product each year to keep consumers interested, and (taking the "business" part out of it) just as payback to their loyal fanbase. And they have done that with dozens of new features this year that you get right out of the box for your $60. The key is that the costs to develop those features end the day the game goes gold (with the exception of possible future patches, but that is just part of every game's life-cycle these days). HDR isn't going to keep costing them money after the game is gold so there is no added costs for it. I can understand the argument about alternate uniforms and similar items (although I personally don't use them so have no real care one way or another on those), but the web-enabled features I have no problem with the added charge, and I don't believe we get those features without the charge so if I have to choose between $7 or not having the feature at all I'll pay.

This post deserved more than just the "Thanks" button.

/thread

# 147 Colt45 @ 05/27/11 01:48 PM

I apologize for being a little confused, but can someone list what, exactly, is for sale here?

I know these two:

2.99 for advance week online
2.99 for sim games online

Is there other things (aside from jerseys, w/e) that have been announced for sale?

# 148 Solidice @ 05/27/11 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt45


	I apologize for being a little confused, but can someone list what, exactly, is for sale here? I know these two: 2.99 for advance week online 2.99 for sim games online Is there other things (aside from jerseys, w/e) that have been announced for sale?

you can get those 2, along with the ability to host 5 ODs together for $6.99 total, which FWIW, cost $15 in NCAA 11 by itself.

I imagine all the "boosters" or whatever they were called will still be there.

# 149 roadman @ 05/27/11 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbmnm247


	None of this has anything to do with DLC. Business is business and they are in it to make profits I agree. But EA Sports only does this because they CAN, period. If you don't see that then you need to look closer.

So do other gaming companies.

I said in the Madden thread, our son pleaded for us to buy a map pack for COD. We bought it for him and he told me it was a piece of crap. He's never asked again. That was $15.00, this is $3.00.

It's all about options. If this is burning inside of you, don't buy the game. That's the only way you'll feel better and not give EA your hard earned $.

I'm not buying it the "extras" because I don't need it, but that isn't preventing me from purchasing a good game if that is what it is.

# 150 kbmnm247 @ 05/27/11 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dame


	Are the people who are mad at this only mad because they feel this is open a pathway to charge for other things in the future(which is understandable) or are y'all mad because y'all want to use this option but don't want to pay for it. I'm just trying to figure out people arguments. I understand people mad because EA didnt say it was a fee at first I just wonder why the debate is going on for so long This reminds me of Apps for your Iphone or Droid they usually offer an app for free but if you want to do something extra they charge you for a different version yea they could offer it for free but for whatever reason they charge.

I'm upset because it's being boasted as a new feature for online dynasty but you have to pay extra for it besides the $60 you already pay for the game + if you buy the game used you have to pay for an online pass.

I'm also upset and more upset with this than the other thing, that it is opening a door for future DLC for more and more "new features". What's stopping them from creating a new mode and charging us for that too? I'd be fine if I could buy this stuff a la carte but I can't. The fact they waste ANY resources whatsoever on mascot mode is bad enough.

# 151 arobbi3 @ 05/27/11 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbmnm247


	I'm upset because it's being boasted as a new feature for online dynasty but you have to pay extra for it besides the $60 you already pay for the game + if you buy the game used you have to pay for an online pass. I'm also upset and more upset with this than the other thing, that it is opening a door for future DLC for more and more "new features". What's stopping them from creating a new mode and charging us for that too? I'd be fine if I could buy this stuff a la carte but I can't. The fact they waste ANY resources whatsoever on mascot mode is bad enough.

They aren't going to charge for any modes. This isn't a doorway for more charges. You pay to help the servers.

The only way they were going to add these features was to find a way to offset the server costs they would need to add to support them (with development costs on top of that but infrastructure costs alone justify this).

Also, mascot mode is essentially play now with mascot skins on the players and different juke animations. It does not take up as much space as you're implying.

# 152 Legionnaire @ 05/27/11 02:46 PM

I don't mind most DLC.

Lots of it is just extra goodies that aren't honestly necessary. As long as you don't have to pay for DLC in order to "complete" the game, I don't really care. It's the difference between asking for money and demanding it at gunpoint.

My main complaint with it is that it seems mostly aimed towards less-serious gamers much of the time (like, instead of allowing "cheat codes" to make the game easier like 99% of games have done, they make you pay for the thing that help you cheat in recruiting and all that... or in MLB The Show they let you buy the luxury of having a bigger budget to spend in franchise mode). Or those dumb ultimate team card-collecting schemes. That's aimed at children and people who are obsessive compulsive (not necessarily obsessive about gaming in particular, just obsessive in general). Or, in Sony's baseball title, they sell historic stadiums, which I think no longer even exist.

Ideally, I'd like to see them use DLC as a reason to implement more content for the hardcore gamers. For years, when they get ripped for games being too arcade-ish and not sim enough, they explain they make their money by focusing on the kind of things that will suck in casual gamers. So when the community asks for something kind of hardcore that wouldn't appeal to casual gamers at all, they almost never take it seriously as something worth putting time toward putting in the game. I wish they'd start using DLC as a justification to put resources toward features the more hardcore crowd would dig -- since those people would then throw some money at the DLC to essentially "make it worth their while" to put those things in the game when they otherwise never would have made it in.

Or maybe the prospect of DLC could be used to tempt the developers into fighting to put something in the game that they currently give excuses for why they aren't allowed. Like a playoff system in NCAA.

EA claims they aren't allowed to. But the history of EA Sports is littered with games that featured the option to implement rules/formats in those sports that aren't what the real-life sport actually uses. Like when they'd let you use a shootout in hockey games before the NHL moved to the shootout format. Or letting you change how many games are played in NBA playoff series. Or the designated hitter rules in baseball.

I accept that EA hasn't gotten NCAA to let them give you a playoff option in the game yet. Just like, before last year, I'm sure the NCAA wouldn't have let them re-name conference divisions or create Super Conferences or completely change sponsored bowl game tie-in's. It just shows nothing is permanently off-limits; things are just off-limits until they're not anymore. I don't think EA tries that hard to get the permission to do this because I don't think they care at all (especially since they probably put in work to secure all those real bowl games). If EA thought a high enough number of gamers would pay 7.99 or whatever to unlock a playoff format for dynasty modes, though, if they were looking at enough money dangling there if they just get the ability to implement this feature, I think they'd be a lot more motivated to do that finally.

DLC can be used like they do now, selling children packs of cards and cheat codes. It can be used to squeeze money out of the "graphics" crowd who pays for more uniforms/outfits and locations/stadiums/maps to look at. Or it could be used as motivation for putting features in the game that otherwise they would never care enough to get done.

# 153 kbmnm247 @ 05/27/11 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4solo


	Once you pay $60 you get your disc. That $60 now belongs to the company to spend how ever they see fit. When you pay $60 you are not paying for future copies of the game you are paying for the current version. So if you don't like that current version then don't buy it. See the problem is that people feel that b/c the buy the game every year they are "investing in EA". But your are not. Your $60 does not make you a share holder. You chose to trade money for the product they currently provide. B/c you spend $60 that doesn't entitle you to determine how they make future products. Again if you don't like what they are doing in the future then as a consumer you respond by not giving them your money.

If this feature was created with only money from the DLC that's fine, but my $60 is going towards the production/maintenance of it, is it not? So why don't I get a feature I AM paying for, no matter how you want to look at it. Now they are just asking me to pay for it twice because it's "extra".

You don't see a problem with that?

# 154 roadman @ 05/27/11 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbmnm247


	If this feature was created with only money from the DLC that's fine, but my $60 is going towards the production/maintenance of it, is it not? So why don't I get a feature I AM paying for, no matter how you want to look at it. Now they are just asking me to pay for it twice because it's "extra". You don't see a problem with that?

Please link me where your $60.00 is going for in EA. As the poster above you said, the $3.00 is going towards the maintenance of the servers, not the production of the game. Your $60.00 is a standard price for a video game that goes back into the production budget of next years game. Everything else is an extra service with an additional cost.

Do you see a problem with that?

# 155 kbmnm247 @ 05/27/11 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coogrfan


	The "advance dynasty" entitlement is included in the $6.99 fee that will be required to commish multiple OD's this time around. If you don't want to commish more than one dynasty at a time, the $2.99 option is the way to go. Note that this is a one-time fee good for the life of NCAA 12 (so it can apply to multiple dynasties, just not at the same time).

And in NCAA 13, I'd have to pay again?

I can't believe this isn't being looked at as totally ludicrous, even more unbelievable is the fact that people are HAPPY paying it.

# 156 mattbooty @ 05/27/11 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbmnm247


	If this feature was created with only money from the DLC that's fine, but my $60 is going towards the production/maintenance of it, is it not? So why don't I get a feature I AM paying for, no matter how you want to look at it. Now they are just asking me to pay for it twice because it's "extra". You don't see a problem with that?

I think this is a fallacy... your $60 isn't paying for the production/maintenance of the web-enabled content (or ANY part of the game for that matter). Your $60 buys you whatever incarnation of NCAA 12 EA sports decides to put on the disc. EA pays for the development of the game and then they hope enough people buy it to make that money back (and some profit obviously)... you didn't FUND the development of the McDonald's secret sauce either, you just bought a burger with it on it (I don't eat at McDonald's they may not even have a secret sauce so feel free to flame if I flubbed that analogy).

In no way were these features made with "your" money. Now if EA came out back in July after 11 came out and said "OK people, we want to start working on NCAA 12, here is the features we hope to incorporate, but we need to get some cash so we can get it made, who can give us $60 right now so we can make a game with these features".... THEN they came out afterwards and said some of the those features were going to cost additional money... then yes, they spent your money on developing this game and cheated you out of promised features.

They are telling you 6 weeks ahead of the game coming out what features are included in the boxed copy of the game and what will cost extra $$$. You have that time to decide if you will or will not purchase the game. If you do purchase the game you are doing so with full knowledge of what product you are getting. If you feel the game is only worth $60 IF you get those web features for free... then this year's version isn't for you... but I see no way that Ea is trying to trick you.

# 157 mattbooty @ 05/27/11 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbmnm247


	And in NCAA 13, I'd have to pay again? I can't believe this isn't being looked at as totally ludicrous, even more unbelievable is the fact that people are HAPPY paying it.

Those of us who are arguing the justification of the cost are not "HAPPY" paying it.... we are HAPPY that the feature was added, we understand the justification behind the added cost, and feel that it is worth the relatively low price-tag associated with it.

Would we all like everything to be free? Of course, but just because I want something to be free doesn't mean I don't understand why I have to pay for it and am satisfied that its a fair price.

# 158 coogrfan @ 05/27/11 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbmnm247


	And in NCAA 13, I'd have to pay again?

Well...yeah. That's how the real world works.

# 159 kbmnm247 @ 05/27/11 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4solo


	I just don't get it b/c all games sell DLC whether they have competition or not. Don't get me wrong, I understand your POV with DLC but if you continue to buy the game every year you are just as much at fault. The only way to eliminate the company that "monopolized" the industry is stop buying their product.

My problem isn't with DLC in games. However, I'm not really sure what other sports games have DLC other than EA games so I can't speak 100% accurate on the DLC in sports genre issue.

The problem I have is that the way EA does it just SEEMS wrong, can you at least agree to that? While other DLC will be almost full new games from what I've seen, EA is charging you for recruiting adviser, AFL unis (that were worn during regular season, they didn't just create them and add them for the hell of it, they took something the NFL was doing special for the year and made you pay for them), keeping a player on a team, boost packs for online single player experiences which pretty much ruin the mode unless you pay for them or obtain them someway, extra commentary languages, etc etc. None of those features are a new game, some are simply options that should be in a single player mode as is.

Also, I won't be buying NCAA this year I don't think, but I do like football sports games and so I probably will purchase Madden down the line. I suppose I could buy it used to take away some EA profits but I'll still have to pay for online pass which goes in their pockets anyway. That's the problem with the monopoly because if I want an NFL football game, I have to buy an EA sports product or I simply can't have one. It's pretty crappy for the consumer.

# 160 kbmnm247 @ 05/27/11 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arobbi3


	They aren't going to charge for any modes. This isn't a doorway for more charges. You pay to help the servers. The only way they were going to add these features was to find a way to offset the server costs they would need to add to support them (with development costs on top of that but infrastructure costs alone justify this). Also, mascot mode is essentially play now with mascot skins on the players and different juke animations. It does not take up as much space as you're implying.

EA Fifa Ultimate Team has online access for free. FIFA is their #1 selling game and you bet your *** plenty of people are using that and on those servers far longer than they would be to just advance a week in OD. Why is that?

So then why even waste ANY money on mascot mode? If it takes up any space at all it's as much space as I'm implying.

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