Madden 12 News Post

Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

03:05 PM - April 12, 2011 by Benicio10

According to PastaPadre, Ian Cummings, Creative Director of the Madden franchise, is leaving Tiburon.

He also states there are quite a few other big names going with him.

What do you think about this news?

Game: Madden NFL 12Reader Score: 6.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii / Xbox 360Votes for game: 44 - View All

Madden NFL 12 Videos

Member Comments

# 221 SageInfinite @ 04/13/11 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	Substance in M04 when they tailored the gameplay around Michael Vick? When people regularly scored 70+pts a game in 5min quarters? Even John Madden himself commented about his concerns of what the game had become then. Or M05, when Tiburon over-compensated and had linebackers and dbs jumping out of shoes and socks to intercept and knock passes down to keep the scores down? Fun games, but they were way out of whack in terms of balance. Madden has had issues for a while now.

You just keep hitting the nail on the head. I agree with all of the recent posts I've seen.

# 222 GGEden @ 04/13/11 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	Thanks, As I browse this forum, I notice that EA has the "25 new Plays" in some threads and its puzzling that most people have forgotten just how dumb downed madden 11's play books were. Now they're being introduced as "NEW PLAYS' is just puzzling to me and tell me that marketing really thinks we are dumb or the 25-40 yr old crowd doesnt play madden anymore and know one under that will notice. EA needs to hire someone to slap the smile off there marketer's face, I have my degree in marketing but never pursued it due to the economy. Since they seem to be the driving force behind the developing team, what would it hurt to get someone in there who can get the job done and the game back where it needs to be. This is gonna be the last straw for most gamers here including myself. If it wasnt for the sim community i play in every year, i'd been and abandoned madden after 08, but at the same time its all we got.

You're on fire, Smoke6. Another excellent point/example of how EA have been alienating their consumers. Taking out stuff then putting it back in like it's a new feature. They gutted the playbooks from M10 to M11. And sorry, but GameFlow was just a souped up Ask Madden, and the thing itself wasn't very useful as there was so little logic being applied by the OC/DC. Calling running plays on 3rd and long, calling running plays when down on the scoreboard and need to be in passing mode, calling the same handful of plays over and over, and on defense same thing.

The thing that made me fall in love with Madden originally was the create a play and create a playbook features. Then there was this long period where EA just brought in tacky gimmicky icons and cones, then focusing on graphics alone, menu interfaces, and all that kind of stuff.

Here's the thing...EA has decided on seeing the Madden franchise as a pick-up and play arcade game for casual gamers, pretty graphics and BS to continue to rope people to buy the next version, and has promoted the whole "money play" thing as synonymous with Madden.

I don't foresee EA ever trying to push the envelope for Madden. What BackBreaker did with physics was something EA could easily have done several years ago. But they had a top-seller and just sit on their hands looking for ways to keep the satus quo and rake in dollars at the fans expense, berating them when the fans push for innovation, sim, etc.

The Madden engine has literally been the same for the last decade.

# 223 Pared @ 04/13/11 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreFacTor


	I think everyone is giving, and has been giving Ian too much credit for either the good or bad that is in this gen madden. In three iterations of Madden there has been -Online leagues, madden IQ, EA backtrack, Virtual Madden, "hit stick 2.0" -Protak, presentation, online franchise, QB specific mechanics, Pocket awareness -stratpad, reworked locomotion, gameflow, gameplan How much of any of those additions can be credited directly to Ian, the good and bad? Ian could have been more of an emissary to convey what the community wanted instead of being the head guy in charge like many believe. At any rate, I would not got to the extent to say that Ian is the reason madden is good or bad or the same. The foundation was laid before he step foot in the arena, and I'm certain he did his best to make madden better, in the end it wasn't enough for many of us and it's going to take a hell of a lot to change my opinion on any future madden with or without Ian.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietcool72


	Haven't read this whole thread, but I see Pasta is reporting that Madden 12 is being pushed back 3 weeks til August 31st. That in itself doesn't mean much to me. They may want to milk some College FB sales more than usual due to the NFL probably not even playing in the first few weeks. However, what we do know is this. Madden Community Manager RAC (Will Kinsler) left EA a month and a half ago for **** Games. Now the Ian Cummings (and others) defection. Put it all together, and things down in Orlando don't look too inspiring for Madden 12.

Good posts that will most surely get lost with the repeated "lmao's" and focus on arguing.

# 224 PGaither84 @ 04/13/11 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHooe


	Nope, he was "@ian_cummings_ea". To the latter, only he knows.

No, his twitter was always @Ian_Cummings

His name here at OS had the _ea.

# 225 mva5580 @ 04/13/11 01:41 PM

I just got an email stating that my pre-order of Madden 12 had the release date changed from 8/9 to 8/30.......something's up. No Madden has ever come out that late and obviously 8/30 is just some kind of a place holder date anyway.

If guys are leaving at this point in the process, I'm wondering if this game will even be released this year.

# 226 PGaither84 @ 04/13/11 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgiles36


	I hope not. I still say there are some capable individuals down there in Orlando (Ryan Burnsides comes to mind if he's still there and willing to be the lead designer). I'm sure some will argue that the whole thing needs to be blown up. I disagree. Promote someone with a similar vision and keep the train moving.

Ryan doesn't work on madden anymore. Scant is the lead now, unless that changed too.

# 227 MrNFL_FanIQ @ 04/13/11 01:43 PM

I think a lot of people put way too much credit and blame on a guy like Ian. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that most of the gimmick features and that strategy comes from the very top suits, and the programmers have to follow suit.

# 228 Smoke6 @ 04/13/11 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScriptOhio


	Impossible comparison, this gen had to be completely built from the ground up, the final version of Madden on last gen before this gen had come out was what?... Like 8 years in the making. The software is different, the coding is different, and the amount of times it takes is implement is different. They couldn't just port over the ps2 version and upgrade it, the engine was at its max potential according to industry folks that know way more than most of us. He took over a made game that was barebones in every aspect, and has improved virtually every area of The game. That sentence there disproves the statement that he hasnt done anything for Madden since he arrived.

Please explain how is that this is impossible? But before you hurt yourself trying, i will help you.

Madden from the PS1 to PS2 had features out of this world,the Xbox version was way more polished GFX wise and looks exactly how the game we are playing now looks minus all those features.

Leaguedaddy wasnt created for nothing, it was a tool to help assist gamers with something that EA felt was so trivial and time consuming to get into the game themselves just like Adam ( i think thats his name) has done with myleaguemanager.

Take a look at some images from the Madden 06 with Mcnabb on the cover and then look at the game Madden 11 and tell me you see something built from the ground up after 08's version.

its like Night and day...

Madden 06 above

Madden 11 above.

So tell me do you still stand by your statement that madden 11 doesnt look like this in HD from the XBOX....

# 229 bigfnjoe96 @ 04/13/11 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	The biggest issue is that they're not using the hardware like everyone else has. Their main console is the 360 and it should be switched to take advantage of the PS3's Blu ray disc space and features and then port. There's no reason to have all that available and you're not even using a 1/4 of whats available out of that system(s). Stadiums should almost be life like in look and feel and they should go back to that 06 engine. Something tells me they will but not this gen, they basically gave us xbox 1 in HD this gen and then slowly added features over the course of this gen when they all should have been there from the start.

If you notice most if not all multi-platform games are developed on the 360.

The disc has nothing to do with development as much as the hardware does. Developer's use the 360 kits because it's easier to develop a game on. The have access to more tools via the 360 hardware..

Developing on the ps3 & then porting would make no difference in the final product

# 230 marshallfever @ 04/13/11 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	The biggest issue is that they're not using the hardware like everyone else has. Their main console is the 360 and it should be switched to take advantage of the PS3's Blu ray disc space and features and then port. There's no reason to have all that available and you're not even using a 1/4 of whats available out of that system(s). Stadiums should almost be life like in look and feel and they should go back to that 06 engine. Something tells me they will but not this gen, they basically gave us xbox 1 in HD this gen and then slowly added features over the course of this gen when they all should have been there from the start.

The console on which they base their engine has nothing to do with the way the games have come out. Yes Blu Ray has more space to fit more content in, but thats not Madden's problem. The problem comes from the way they created their engine, not on the console they created their engine one.

They picked the 360 because it was out first and allowed them to start their next generation games. The original xbox was much more powerful than the ps2 yet the old gen Madden games were all built on the ps2. As a matter of fact, it should be easier for them to create the actual game on the 360 because of the ease of development tools the 360 has over the ps3. Yes the ps3 can output more, but it takes more effort while the 360 make its easier to produce quality content.

Back on topic- I don't see Madden changing very much until the next generation of games. EA put too much effort and money into this engine to just scratch if off and start a new, especially when theres no exact time frame for the next consoles. What if Sony comes out of the blue and announces the PS4 for a release date of November 12-2012. There would be no purpose in creating a new current engine when the next generation console is out. Yes this is a far fetched idea, but theres no telling when the next big machines will be out and for them to start anew and use two years to create a new engine that can fit better in the parameters of real physics would take tooo long.

The best they can do now is to do what they've been currently doing, trying to add to this current engine as best as possible. The next creative director can only do so much being limited by the engine as Ian was.

# 231 quietcool72 @ 04/13/11 01:56 PM

Madden 10's feature set was laid out on the product "road map" by EA before Ian took over. That's no slight on Ian's work or abilities, I'm just merely pointing out that the feature set was not "his", so to speak. I also think it would be unfair to say Madden 11's feature set was "his" either. You guys simply have to understand how little "power" the devs have versus the long-term product roadmap laid out by the people above the devs. (Most of whom pay WAY TOO MUCH ATTENTION to the narrow minded surveys EA pushes out there regularly). The devs have to jump to the product road-map marching orders, whatever those feature sets are being pushed and agreed to by committee. ONLY if they have the time or man hours AFTER the implementation of the pre-determined road-map features do they have the slightest bit of leeway into adding a "pet idea", and only then if they can justify the spare man hours (if any remain, that is.) Honestly, Ian gets both too much credit for Madden 10, and too much blame for Madden 11. My view of the process from talking to the devs at Tiburon is that they are the captains of a ship that is on autopilot in terms of the "destination". They are only allowed the slightest "course corrections", and even then they have to plead for the leeway to do so. Their creative freedom is INCREDIBLY limited with EA's structure.

I hope Ian's tongue is freed up during this move, because I'm sure deep down he wants to respond to lots of the Madden 11 criticism and defend himself. Lets hope he isn't tied down by some agreement with EA to not talk about them for x years in exchange for some parting benefit. I'd love to hear SOMEONE freed up to discuss the process.

# 232 Smoke6 @ 04/13/11 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshallfever


	The console on which they base their engine has nothing to do with the way the games have come out. Yes Blu Ray has more space to fit more content in, but thats not Madden's problem. The problem comes from the way they created their engine, not on the console they created their engine one. They picked the 360 because it was out first and allowed them to start their next generation games. The original xbox was much more powerful than the ps2 yet the old gen Madden games were all built on the ps2. As a matter of fact, it should be easier for them to create the actual game on the 360 because of the ease of development tools the 360 has over the ps3. Yes the ps3 can output more, but it takes more effort while the 360 make its easier to produce quality content. Back on topic- I don't see Madden changing very much until the next generation of games. EA put too much effort and money into this engine to just scratch if off and start a new, especially when theres no exact time frame for the next consoles. What if Sony comes out of the blue and announces the PS4 for a release date of November 12-2012. There would be no purpose in creating a new current engine when the next generation console is out. Yes this is a far fetched idea, but theres no telling when the next big machines will be out and for them to start anew and use two years to create a new engine that can fit better in the parameters of real physics would take tooo long. The best they can do now is to do what they've been currently doing, trying to add to this current engine as best as possible. The next creative director can only do so much being limited by the engine as Ian was.

Bolded,

Now you get and dont even know it!

Your last paragraph, is BS, for the sole reason that each version madden is missing at least 5 features from its previous version. Run to daylight, vision cone, gang tackling, Offensive PI, the controls, practice mode etc etc.

We dont even have a pre season schedule for online franchise games so we can weed out our draft picks and fully customize our teams correctly.

How about some true intergration with their NCAA counterpart for online dynasties importing there classes to Madden online franchises from the same group of guys involved in the leagues. Now that we have more time with NCAA this year, that should work out swell if it happend. These 2 games should always be interconnected in some way besides importing draft classes.

There should be a way during the systems can link your franchise/dynasties together with draft prospect news feeds and all. In know this sounds like a wish list but this is where I thought this gen would have taken us already and it hasnt.

Madden is just behind this gen, im running out of hope!

# 233 Hooe @ 04/13/11 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	(challenge comparison)

It's obvious to me that when both games are in motion that they aren't the same. There's no comparison with regard to the player interactions in general; for example, the PS2-era games didn't have a concept of a three-person interaction and branching animations, and did not utilize the new locomotion mechanic which completely changed how players move on the field.

It's obvious to me, having played both games, that they play differently. The last-gen games to me are no longer fun due to the advances EA has made this generation.

It's obvious to me that EA actually did completely rebuild their game on the field. The two games are similar in that they are both football and they both share the button-passing mechanic.

If you are specifically talking about a comparison between Franchise modes, the last-gen still has more depth, but that wasn't what you were comparing via your screenshots.

# 234 GGEden @ 04/13/11 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshallfever


	I don't see Madden changing very much until the next generation of games. EA put too much effort and money into this engine to just scratch if off and start a new, especially when theres no exact time frame for the next consoles. What if Sony comes out of the blue and announces the PS4 for a release date of November 12-2012. There would be no purpose in creating a new current engine when the next generation console is out. Yes this is a far fetched idea, but theres no telling when the next big machines will be out and for them to start anew and use two years to create a new engine that can fit better in the parameters of real physics would take tooo long.

Not having a dig at you, but that's what the PS3 and X360 supposedly are....next-gen. Indeed they are. Look at Backbreaker's physics. That's this gen, EA could easily push the envelope but doesn't.

# 235 mva5580 @ 04/13/11 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietcool72


	I hope Ian's tongue is freed up during this move, because I'm sure deep down he wants to respond to lots of the Madden 11 criticism and defend himself. Lets hope he isn't tied down by some agreement with EA to not talk about them for x years in exchange for some parting benefit. I'd love to hear SOMEONE freed up to discuss the process.

He'll be able to speak in generalities, and that's pretty much it. He won't get into specifics, nor should he if he wants to continue working in the industry. We all have to "play the game" to some degree if we want gainful employment for ourselves, and he won't be any different. Your current/future employers won't look too kindly on you speaking overly negative of a past employer publicly.

# 236 Smoke6 @ 04/13/11 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietcool72


	Madden 10's feature set was laid out on the product "road map" by EA before Ian took over. That's no slight on Ian's work or abilities, I'm just merely pointing out that the feature set was not "his", so to speak. I also think it would be unfair to say Madden 11's feature set was "his" either. You guys simply have to understand how little "power" the devs have versus the long-term product roadmap laid out by the people above the devs. (Most of whom pay WAY TOO MUCH ATTENTION to the narrow minded surveys EA pushes out there regularly). The devs have to jump to the product road-map marching orders, whatever those feature sets are being pushed and agreed to by committee. ONLY if they have the time or man hours AFTER the implementation of the pre-determined road-map features do they have the slightest bit of leeway into adding a "pet idea", and only then if they can justify the spare man hours (if any remain, that is.) Honestly, Ian gets both too much credit for Madden 10, and too much blame for Madden 11. My view of the process from talking to the devs at Tiburon is that they are the captains of a ship that is on autopilot in terms of the "destination". They are only allowed the slightest "course corrections", and even then they have to plead for the leeway to do so. Their creative freedom is INCREDIBLY limited with EA's structure. I hope Ian's tongue is freed up during this move, because I'm sure deep down he wants to respond to lots of the Madden 11 criticism and defend himself. Lets hope he isn't tied down by some agreement with EA to not talk about them for x years in exchange for some parting benefit. I'd love to hear SOMEONE freed up to discuss the process.

So what you're saying is, is that a group of guys who may have never developed a game in there life, tells the devs how to make there game! They give them a budget and a time frame for release of there game along with this, and regardless what the devs say or do, they have to follow this script?

Then we shouldnt have really any features at all besides tackle, run, throw, catch, spin and maybe a juke or jump button. Besides picking plays, this is very hard to believe given that the devs are introducing things that are apart of football and have been missing from the game, either completely or recently along with the other gimmicks like Spec catch, and weapons.

I too am hoping someone comes forward of all this and spills the beans, it would put alot of speculation and talk to rest and may ease the frustration of some of us gamers.

# 237 Hooe @ 04/13/11 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	Your last paragraph, is BS, for the sole reason that each version madden is missing at least 5 features from its previous version.

It's common knowledge in game development circles that the XBOX360 and the XDK is a much more developer-friendly environment than the PS3 and its equivalent. The XBOX operating system is a derivative of Windows, and the graphics library is DirectX which is more-or-less standard on any Windows-based gaming PC. The PS3 is all proprietary stuff which is much harder to work with, and the system architecture of the XBOX360 is also much more similar to a PC than the PS3 is.

Your assertion that EA is using the XBOX as a user-side "excuse" is flat-out wrong. Further, the things you claim are "missing" are either in the game or were intentionally scrapped. For example, practice mode, gang tackling, and offensive pass interference are all in the game. The vision cone was scrapped because it was a poor feature that was clunky to use. The change in the control scheme from last-gen to this was intentional.

# 238 marshallfever @ 04/13/11 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	Bolded, Now you get and dont even know it! Your last paragraph, is BS, for the sole reason that each version madden is missing at least 5 features from its previous version. Run to daylight, vision cone, gang tackling, Offensive PI, the controls, practice mode etc etc. We dont even have a pre season schedule for online franchise games so we can weed out our draft picks and fully customize our teams correctly. How about some true intergration with their NCAA counterpart for online dynasties importing there classes to Madden online franchises from the same group of guys involved in the leagues. Now that we have more time with NCAA this year, that should work out swell if it happend. These 2 games should always be interconnected in some way besides importing draft classes. There should be a way during the systems can link your franchise/dynasties together with draft prospect news feeds and all. In know this sounds like a wish list but this is where I thought this gen would have taken us already and it hasnt. Madden is just behind this gen, im running out of hope!

I agree with what your saying, i just don't think you can fault the systems when its down to the developers. You can't blame the 360 or ps3 or even Wii for the games that are on them, its the developers who have to learn the console and squeeze as much as possible from each console. Everything that you named missing isn't the fault of the console running them but the development team deciding to remove them for reasons unknown to us the public.

# 239 marshallfever @ 04/13/11 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGEden


	Not having a dig at you, but that's what the PS3 and X360 supposedly are....next-gen. Indeed they are. Look at Backbreaker's physics. That's this gen, EA could easily push the envelope but doesn't.

Yes i know what you mean, but a usual console cycle last about 5 years or so, this is the first time that we haven't heard anything at all about a "next generation" console beyond at least 4 years of the current consoles.

I just don't seem EA tossing away their engine for a new one. I completely agree that they can develop a much better engine truly based on physics like Backbreaker this current generation, but doing that means they have to take their loss on this current engine which i don't see them doing. They've invested too much time and money in this current engine (06-11) which is 5 years. They poured millions and millions of money and time these last five years into their current engine. I just don't see them discarding it until the next batch of consoles come out.

Like they've done these past 5 years, they're going to continue to built on this engine until the time comes when they HAVE to get rid of it. And the way this current engine it built, it just don't have the capability to do what we the fans what it to do.

# 240 Hooe @ 04/13/11 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshallfever


	Yes i know what you mean, but a usual console cycle last about 5 years or so, this is the first time that we haven't heard anything at all about a "next generation" console beyond at least 4 years of the current consoles. I just don't seem EA tossing away their engine for a new one. I completely agree that they can develop a much better engine truly based on physics like Backbreaker this current generation, but doing that means they have to take their loss on this current engine which i don't see them doing. They've invested too much time and money in this current engine (06-11) which is 5 years. They poured millions and millions of money and time these last five years into their current engine. I just don't see them discarding it until the next batch of consoles come out. Like they've done these past 5 years, they're going to continue to built on this engine until the time comes when they HAVE to get rid of it. And the way this current engine it built, it just don't have the capability to do what we the fans what it to do.

I doubt EA Sports scraps their tech upon the jump to next-gen either, at least not initially, given that much of their baseline tech is shared amongst their different games.

« Previous 1 2…8 9 10 111213 14 15 16 Next »

More Links

Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon