Madden 12 News Post

Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon

03:05 PM - April 12, 2011 by Benicio10

According to PastaPadre, Ian Cummings, Creative Director of the Madden franchise, is leaving Tiburon.

He also states there are quite a few other big names going with him.

What do you think about this news?

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Member Comments

# 261 djordan @ 04/13/11 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	To me the implementation of Pro-Tak showed just how out of touch Ian and that team were to the gang tackling/player interaction problem. I don't see how it could be considered a significant addition when you're watching helplessly as a [supposed] 190lb running back is breaking free from 6+defenders engaged in a group hug/rugby scrum. The animations of players warping into the "gang tackle" was bad. And the long breakaway runs that sometimes occurred afterward were even worse. One of the things the Tiburon devs touted that year was how many players could be involved in a gang tackle because of the Pro-Tak technology. And I got the distinct feeling they were implementing the feature from the perspective of trying to outdo what had been done in [other football games], instead of how it should work from a practical standpoint. They were trying to make a necessary improvement but the implementation was wrong. Tiburon's history is littered with weird choices like that.

The entire pro-tak deal was a sham! I remember Ian saying Madden 10 was the foundation for Pro-tak and they would take it to another level with Madden 11. Once Madden 11 news began to surface there was no mention of the additions of Pro-tak and if they fine tuned the technology for the better. Between certain devs falsely stating Pro-tak and halftime show being improved with Madden 11 at the end of Madden 10's development I began to grow weary of EA Tiburon.

Till this freaking day I don't understand how true gang tackling isn't in a EA football game. DAMNIT! lol

# 262 Smoke6 @ 04/13/11 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djordan


	The entire pro-tak deal was a shame! I remember Ian saying Madden 10 was the foundation for Pro-tak and they would take it to another level with Madden 11. Once Madden 11 news began to surface there was no mention of the additions of Pro-tak and if they fine tuned the technology for the better. Between certain devs falsely stating Pro-tak and halftime show being improved with Madden 11 I began to grow weary of EA Tiburon. Till this freaking day I don't understand how true gang tackling isn't in a EA football game. DAMNIT! lol

I mean bring back some real "nostalgia" back in this game. You guys have everything you need in going back thru the archives of madden past to get what u need to do this. Madden should never be "mediocre", even to the casuals and this is the crowd that gets all the attention leading the hardcore behind to make due of the situation

# 263 SageInfinite @ 04/13/11 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	To me the implementation of Pro-Tak showed just how out of touch Ian and that team were to the gang tackling/player interaction problem. I don't see how it could be considered a significant addition when you're watching helplessly as a [supposed] 190lb running back is breaking free from 6+defenders engaged in a group hug/rugby scrum. The animations of players warping into the "gang tackle" was bad. And the long breakaway runs that sometimes occurred afterward were even worse. One of the things the Tiburon devs touted that year was how many players could be involved in a gang tackle because of the Pro-Tak technology. And I got the distinct feeling they were implementing the feature from the perspective of trying to outdo what had been done in [other football games], instead of how it should work from a practical standpoint. They were trying to make a necessary improvement but the implementation was wrong. Tiburon's history is littered with weird choices like that.

Another good post.Idk if it's the implementation or the direction at Tiburon, but somewhere things get crossed up.

# 264 Pared @ 04/13/11 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	Personally? Man this game is what got most of us into gaming so we have every right to take it personal. As far as telling someone they have no talent over the met as opposed to face to face. I has no problem with if its true. I just feel there was no passion put into making madden like it used to be. Remember when Jim brown did the halftime reports. That lady did the injury report during the game and updated us on the situation along with what the coach said at halftime.

Because it's not like Madden attempted to implement a halftime show... right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	I could go on and on just to prove either how cocky or lazy madden has become while at the same time trying to cater to several different crowds. I can and will get more extensive in the morning as I am at work. If those vids or images I provided served no justice to how backwards madden went this gen when they seem to listen to the minority when it comes to complaints and stuff. Then I dunno what to say PR do.

Save yourself the post. There's no need to rehash any of this. We've been there and done that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	It's real easy going thru all the wishlist threads and easily seeing that the elements being asked for get str8 up passed on and neglected in favor of some marketing crap like rewind.

It's also just as easy to gloss over the things that were attempted to make your point more valid than it really is. Saying they "passed and neglected the wishlist thread" can be said about many sports game developers. In fact it has - many times - despite what they do year in and year out. The same non-sense is said about MLB:The Show's dev. team at times (and that's quite the disgusting injustice, IMO).

# 265 ryan36 @ 04/13/11 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	Because it's not like Madden attempted to implement a halftime show... right? Save yourself the post. There's no need to rehash any of this. We've been there and done that. It's also just as easy to gloss over the things that were attempted to make your point more valid than it really is. Saying they "passed and neglected the wishlist thread" can be said about many sports game developers. In fact it has - many times - despite what they do year in and year out. The same non-sense is said about MLB:The Show's dev. team at times (and that's quite the disgusting injustice, IMO).

This is just it. I've never criticized EA's work ethic. I also have never criticized their ability to listen to the community. I criticize the product, certain decisions, the limitations of whatever code they already had, etc...

It's not fair to say the team isn't trying

# 266 RGiles36 @ 04/13/11 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	So if I want to play franchise mode on All-Madden, ratings, other that speed, mean nothing, and there's no reason to pay for highly rated olineman because any run of the mill lineman will do. The punters and kickers on the olineman made the point that, in the trenches, ratings are meaningless.

You and I had a ratings discussion a couple weeks ago, and you conceded that they did mean something. Now they're are back to being meaningless? Suh doesn't dominate in M11?

. 90+ OL don't stonewall defenders?

I guess my point is that there are SO many variables to ratings that it's really inconclusive (and inaccurate) to continue to blindly say they don't work.

Edit: and please give me something other than Tom Brady playing safety. If I was video-savvy, I could show video of WRs getting burned when playing corner.

# 267 ryan36 @ 04/13/11 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	They're meaningless in the trenches, are they not ? Can you stone wall Suh with a player that weight 160 lbs. ? Are you telling me that you haven't seen all of the video footage proving this fact. Meaning a little bit, AKA something, is basically the same as meaning nothing. If you want to get hung up on words, enjoy yourself.

Calm down, man. We all know you're right and rgiles36 is wrong, it's plain to see. There is no way someone could have a different opinion about what they see, and have be as legitimate as yours, we know, we know, we know...

# 268 da ThRONe @ 04/13/11 05:56 PM

1st I would like to wish Ian the very best in his new endeavor.

I'm one of the people that believe that the main lead isn't as important to the direction of Madden as much as the suits. Until the theme is sim equal sells I don't think it matters who the lead is, but hopefully the new lead will interact with the public as much if not more than Ian and company.

# 269 spankdatazz22 @ 04/13/11 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageInfinite


	Another good post.Idk if it's the implementation or the direction at Tiburon, but somewhere things get crossed up.

Don't get it myself. They built a studio dedicated to making football games. They likely have the largest development team for a sports game (or one of), and yet they infer they don't have the resources to do [what they want to do] when other companies working with FAR more restrictions and lesser resources can say they've made more substantial accomplishments. Like someone else said even when they introduce a good feature, they never seem to build on it.

# 270 ryan36 @ 04/13/11 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	Don't get it myself. They built a studio dedicated to making football games. They likely have the largest development team for a sports game (or one of), and yet they infer they don't have the resources to do [what they want to do] when other companies working with FAR more restrictions and lesser resources can say they've made more substantial accomplishments. Like someone else said even when they introduce a good feature, they never seem to build on it.

Well IF this statement is true, (which I can't speak to because I'm not there)... there are a lot of companies which are smaller more mobile and innovative and more willing to take risks... its' fairly common across business.

# 271 SageInfinite @ 04/13/11 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	Don't get it myself. They built a studio dedicated to making football games. They likely have the largest development team for a sports game (or one of), and yet they infer they don't have the resources to do [what they want to do] when other companies working with FAR more restrictions and lesser resources can say they've made more substantial accomplishments. Like someone else said even when they introduce a good feature, they never seem to build on it.

So is it really just a lack of talent? Is it the code that they built coming into this gen? It seems like Tiburon/EA has everything they need to make the best representation of the NFL. Everyone has said it isn't the lack of effort, and most of us have concluded that it isn't lack of resources. So it's either the direction, or they just can't do it(lack of talent).

# 272 K_GUN @ 04/13/11 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageInfinite


	So is it really just a lack of talent? Is it the code that they built coming into this gen? It seems like Tiburon/EA has everything they need to make the best representation of the NFL. Everyone has said it isn't the lack of effort, and most of us have concluded that it isn't lack of resources. So it's either the direction, or they just can't do it(lack of talent).

perhaps the equipment/hardware they have to use is inferior/outdated

# 273 djordan @ 04/13/11 06:54 PM

Its the lack of talent plain and damn simple. Im tired of people saying "UGHH THE BIG WIGS SAID THEY CAN'T PROGRAM 2-3 MAN REALISTIC GANG TACKLES SO GIVE THE DEVS A BREAK"....

HORSE****!!. We are in YEAR 6 OF PS3/XBOX 360 CONSOLES AND YOU MEAN TO TELL ME MOST OF THE FEATURES FROM PS2/XBOX ARE STILL MISSING FROM THIS GAME AS OF NOW???? Mannnn.... Back in 2005 if you would've told me there would be no true gang tackling, no DB shade inside/outside,no proper half time show, no realistic running animations, smooth animation transition, etc I would've laughed in your face.... Check this out... Nfl Fever had hand towels in year 2003 for example and that was on the original Xbox... Why did it take EA Tiburon 7 years total (5 years on superior hardware) to implement hand towels? Makes no sense..

All I can do is "SMH" at EA Tiburon for the product they continue to put out this generation. I continue to buy Madden every year because its the only football game out there and its not a horrible game but I know if we get some fresh developers in here it may change for the better.

# 274 SageInfinite @ 04/13/11 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djordan


	Its the lack of talent plain and damn simple. Im tired of people saying "UGHH THE BIG WIGS SAID THEY CAN'T PROGRAM 2-3 MAN REALISTIC GANG TACKLES SO GIVE THE DEVS A BREAK".... HORSES***!!. We are in YEAR 6 OF PS3/XBOX 360 CONSOLES AND YOU MEAN TO TELL ME MOST OF THE FEATURES FROM PS2/XBOX ARE STILL MISSING FROM THIS GAME AS OF NOW???? Mannnn.... Back in 2005 if you would've told me there would be no true gang tackling, no DB shade inside/outside,no proper half time show, no realistic running animations, smooth animation transition, etc I would've laughed in your face.... Check this out... Nfl Fever had hand towels in year 2003 for example and that was on the original Xbox... Why did it take EA Tiburon 7 years total (5 years on superior hardware) to implement hand towels? Makes no sense.. All I can do is "SMH" at EA Tiburon for the product they continue to put out this generation. I continue to buy Madden every year because its the only football game out there and its not a horrible game but I know if we get some fresh developers in here it may change for the better.

You still gotta remember no matter who is in there, its still ea. They don't hide the fact that they are run from the top down.

# 275 Kevin26385 @ 04/13/11 07:25 PM

I figured Ian was leaving when PP broke the news on Sunday...Hopefully the team can rebound from this!

# 276 da ThRONe @ 04/13/11 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djordan


	Its the lack of talent plain and damn simple. Im tired of people saying "UGHH THE BIG WIGS SAID THEY CAN'T PROGRAM 2-3 MAN REALISTIC GANG TACKLES SO GIVE THE DEVS A BREAK".... HORSES***!!. We are in YEAR 6 OF PS3/XBOX 360 CONSOLES AND YOU MEAN TO TELL ME MOST OF THE FEATURES FROM PS2/XBOX ARE STILL MISSING FROM THIS GAME AS OF NOW???? Mannnn.... Back in 2005 if you would've told me there would be no true gang tackling, no DB shade inside/outside,no proper half time show, no realistic running animations, smooth animation transition, etc I would've laughed in your face.... Check this out... Nfl Fever had hand towels in year 2003 for example and that was on the original Xbox... Why did it take EA Tiburon 7 years total (5 years on superior hardware) to implement hand towels? Makes no sense.. All I can do is "SMH" at EA Tiburon for the product they continue to put out this generation. I continue to buy Madden every year because its the only football game out there and its not a horrible game but I know if we get some fresh developers in here it may change for the better.

Not that any of us know for sure, but if the "Big wigs" are placing higher priority on non-sim features and only giving so much resources for sim addition that would definitely limit even the most gifted programmers.

# 277 ryan36 @ 04/13/11 08:00 PM

When you talk about resources, EA corporation has - that's unlimited, almost.

When you talk about the resources that are allocated to dev cost, that's completely different. And usually not in the dev teams purview. It's like if you have rich parents but they only buy you one pair of shoes per year.

# 278 jWILL253 @ 04/13/11 08:03 PM

Yeah, problems seem to be mounting for EA Sports as a whole. First "Elitegate", and now this.

It's funny. A good friend of mine works for a relatively large company, making 6 figures per year. She says that it's the employee's responsibility to handle the workload, the boss just assigns it. So, as far as whether Tiburon is competent enough to develop football titles, I'll leave that argument to y'all.

Having said that, in my opinion, video games = art, but it's also a business. And, if your actions as a businessman not only hinder your employee's ability to even do it's job properly, but also hinder the product as a whole, then you CLEARLY need to change the way you do business...

# 279 SageInfinite @ 04/13/11 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jWILL10


	Yeah, problems seem to be mounting for EA Sports as a whole. First "Elitegate", and now this. It's funny. A good friend of mine works for a relatively large company, making 6 figures per year. She says that it's the employee's responsibility to handle the workload, the boss just assigns it. So, as far as whether Tiburon is competent enough to develop football titles, I'll leave that argument to y'all. Having said that, in my opinion, video games = art, but it's also a business. And, if your actions as a businessman not only hinder your employee's ability to even do it's job properly, but also hinder the product as a whole, then you CLEARLY need to change the way you do business...

Good Post.

# 280 ABR173rd @ 04/13/11 08:12 PM

Has their been any clarifications as to why Ian and company are leaving? I know they have to be following this thread-so I would hope they would interject some logic as to whats going on or the direction they are going in???

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Madden Creative Director, Ian Cummings is Leaving Tiburon