Madden 12 News Post

Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime Blog: Tuner Sets and Surprise Onside Kicks

09:00 PM - February 6, 2011 by Steve_OS

The Madden NFL 12 Super Bowl Halftime blog is online. Tuner sets and surprise onside kicks are in.

Quote:


	""Tuner Sets", introduced in the NHL series and brought into NCAA Football last year, are hugely important to the development of sports games in that they allow us to tune and tweak many existing parts of game code without the major delay that comes from a full title update requiring 1st party console manufacturer approvals. A quick addition to my hacked surprise onside kick code made this feature easily tunable post-ship, and thus much safer against any exploits that may crop up. This isn't the only thing in the tuner sets obviously...we are in the process of moving as many items into these as possible, from gameplay tuning to franchise data to even presentation aspects. We are excited to the possibilities this will open up to our fans in being able to provide live feedback and having us act on it in near real-time. The days of shipping a disc in a box and forgetting about it are long gone, and we want to be at the forefront of blazing new trails in reacting to our audience and improving the game quickly."

Read the entire blog right here, along with a short video showing off the new surprise onside kick, in action.

UPDATE: The podcast is now on iTunes, for those that couldn't listen to it, via the blog.

EDIT: Per Ian Cummings

Quote:


	"RE: surprise onside, you pick a normal kickoff, then hit the B (or Circle) button as the last press on the meter. Your opponent has no clue!"

UPDATE #2: Via Ian

Quote:


	"Since so many people have asked...surprise onside as of today is only allowed 2x per team per game. That value is also in the tuner set."

Game: Madden NFL 12Reader Score: 6.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii / Xbox 360Votes for game: 44 - View All

Madden NFL 12 Videos

Member Comments

# 181 djordan @ 02/09/11 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonJay14


	Which one was the important feature? To me they are both fluff. 1) Tuner: Great, im glad you added something that allows you to correct things on the fly. however, to me this isnt a feature, its just a debug tool for you guys. If you want to put it in, great, but please don't sell it to us as some "feature". Thats like me painting someones car and leaving the spare paint in the back seat and telling them "hey its a special no feature... if the paint scratches, then i can fix it!" 2) suprise onside kicks: Nice to have, it fits "if its in the game its in the game" but to me, its not even fluff. its like "oh hey thats kinda neat i guess". to stick with the car analogy, its like getting a new car, then finding like some kind of cool pop out cup holder. its neat, but its not something you should be promoting to sell the car. For me, id much rather hear about something useful that is going to bring madden back to being a top 3 sports game(up there with NHL '11, MLB the show, and NBA2k11)... I mean even if its gotta be fluff this early, id rather something useful like... "this year during replays you can press X to skip and it will skip cuts scenes/menus, instead of you having to wait through it only to have 'x' select gameflow, which you turned off in the settings anyways and dont want to use" or even "on the fly audibles are back!" even though thats not something new, but having it back would be great. or best yet "classic defensive controls!" so instead of having to hit "x" before playmakering a defender into a zone/blitz, i can do it the old PS2 way where i can assign 6 guys before the snap. Don't take this as a complain... i liked the strides made for madden 2011. it just kind of annoys me when i feel like things arent continuing to go in the right direction. and when i hear stuff like "important feature" and im looking at tuners/suprise onside... that really makes me scratch my head. If your gonna get back to being a top 3 sports game, you really need to look at what the other games are doing well. sure they all have great presentation and the "little things". but what those 3 games do best are: - Controls/UI (including stuff like menu navigation and skipping things) - gameplay (it always comes down to this) the prettiest most authentic game in the world doesnt mean jack if I hate the controls and dont find the gameplay insanely fun.

CO-F'N SIGN!!!! Great POST!

# 182 jeremym480 @ 02/09/11 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djordan


	CO-F'N SIGN!!!! Great POST!

Maybe if we were in July but, we're in February

# 183 Hooe @ 02/09/11 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonJay14


	Which one was the important feature? To me they are both fluff.

Tuner sets are indisputably important if you've experienced how they helped out NCAA 11 this past year. Surprise onsides fall into the "cool new tidbit" category, but it's something the community has been asking for since the Saints did it; why can't credit and thank them for getting that in this year rather than immediately dismissing it as "fluff"?

More importantly, if you expected this blog to be a significant back-of-the-box feature reveal, particularly after Ian & co. said that it wouldn't be a headlining feature reveal (despite still being somewhat important), then I don't know what to tell you.

# 184 roadman @ 02/09/11 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFitsDaveyJ


	How do you figure? It was said that the marketing team has a pretty big say on what the main features are and the game itself. The former college QB is a current EA employee, which means he too has to go by what he is told to do. I don't disagree, I'm just playing devil's advocate. For all I know, he could be the missing piece of the puzzle that drives Madden over the hump. Both EA football games are already offense driven, so hopefully his (former) position doesn't affect the future premise of upcoming editions too much. Madden needs some defensive work.

It can't hurt, can it?

My point is, the more people with knowledgeable football experience, the better. That is not discrediting Ian and company.

I agree, though, more defense please.

# 185 BostonJay14 @ 02/09/11 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHooe


	Tuner sets are indisputably important if you've experienced how they helped out NCAA 11 this past year. Surprise onsides fall into the "cool new tidbit" category, but it's something the community has been asking for since the Saints did it; why can't credit and thank them for getting that in this year rather than immediately dismissing it as "fluff"?

i know tuners are important... but to me, thats not a feature. its a tool for them to fix things. i liken it to getting an extended warranty on something. it doesnt really add anything to what you bought, but its nice to know if there is a problem it can get fixed/replaced. this should be standard, not something viewed as a feature or extra. The ability to FIX/Tune things isnt a feature. its good to have, but certainly should just be an automatic.

Quote:


	More importantly, if you expected this blog to be a significant back-of-the-box feature reveal, particularly after Ian & co. said that it wouldn't be a headlining feature reveal (despite still being somewhat important), then I don't know what to tell you.

i didnt expect anything but minor things... my point was, IAN stated one of these wasnt fluff... i was very confused as to why he would think that. to me it was what was expected... 2 minor wrinkles that are nice but nothing to get excited about.

and as far as super minor things go, as mentioned, id prefer useful minor things... like being able to skip replays/cutscenes

# 186 Keenan G. @ 02/09/11 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonJay14


	i know tuners are important... but to me, thats not a feature. its a tool for them to fix things. i liken it to getting an extended warranty on something. it doesnt really add anything to what you bought, but its nice to know if there is a problem it can get fixed/replaced. this should be standard, not something viewed as a feature or extra. The ability to FIX/Tune things isnt a feature. its good to have, but certainly should just be an automatic. i didnt expect anything but minor things... my point was, IAN stated one of these wasnt fluff... i was very confused as to why he would think that. to me it was what was expected... 2 minor wrinkles that are nice but nothing to get excited about. and as far as super minor things go, as mentioned, id prefer useful minor things... like being able to skip replays/cutscenes

I agree with what you said and on your previous post.

Why not tell us everything? It is not like they are competing against 2k or any other football game.

I could understand if COD would want to hide features from Bad Company or any other military type FPS. Until the last minute. Madden on the other hand doesnt have anyone to hide features from. They are the only game in town.

# 187 jeremym480 @ 02/09/11 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonJay14


	i know tuners are important... but to me, thats not a feature. its a tool for them to fix things. i liken it to getting an extended warranty on something. it doesnt really add anything to what you bought, but its nice to know if there is a problem it can get fixed/replaced. this should be standard, not something viewed as a feature or extra. The ability to FIX/Tune things isnt a feature. its good to have, but certainly should just be an automatic. i didnt expect anything but minor things... my point was, IAN stated one of these wasnt fluff... i was very confused as to why he would think that. to me it was what was expected... 2 minor wrinkles that are nice but nothing to get excited about.

When it's Madden first year with turners then it's definitely something of note. Most people who have played games with tuners before know that they're not "fluff" or a "gimmick" that is just used as a tool for the Dev Team. It much more than that. Especially, in the world of sports gaming today where every game this gen has needed a patch. Sometimes certain companies can take 2 or 3 months for one patch. For EA and Madden to be able to expedite that process and cut weeks or even months off of game play tweaks is a huge benefit to Madden gamers no matter how negatively you want to look at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonJay14


	and as far as super minor things go, as mentioned, id prefer useful minor things... like being able to skip replays/cutscenes

A. Just because it wasn't mentioned on the first blog doesn't mean that it's not in.

And B. Just because it's something YOU want to see talked about doesn't mean that it important to everyone. Plus, if it was mentioned then there would still be people complaining and saying stuff like "this should be standard, not something viewed as a feature or extra". EA can't win.

# 188 jeremym480 @ 02/09/11 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keenan G.


	I agree with what you said and on your previous post. Why not tell us everything? It is not like they are competing against 2k or any other football game. I could understand if COD would want to hide features from Bad Company or any other military type FPS. Until the last minute. Madden on the other hand doesnt have anyone to hide features from. They are the only game in town.

EA doesn't even know what will or won't make it in yet but, you expect them to let us know? Makes sense.

# 189 The GIGGAS @ 02/09/11 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keenan G.


	I agree with what you said and on your previous post. Why not tell us everything? It is not like they are competing against 2k or any other football game. I could understand if COD would want to hide features from Bad Company or any other military type FPS. Until the last minute. Madden on the other hand doesnt have anyone to hide features from. They are the only game in town.

Because the features aren't complete yet. They're just ideas right now. Some of them are in the process of getting implemented. Remember the complaints about how the crowd sounds were going to be improved, and then time ran out and they didn't get in?

Plus, you don't want to basically throw everything out at once, 5 months before your product goes gold. You want to throw features out there at intervals that keep the community interested in the game. They are competing against everyone else who makes games. If they have this one massive reveal in February, there's nothing to re-energize the fanbase in August, when the game actually comes out.

# 190 RGiles36 @ 02/09/11 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The GIGGAS


	Plus, you don't want to basically throw everything out at once, 5 months before your product goes gold. You want to throw features out there at intervals that keep the community interested in the game. They are competing against everyone else who makes games. If they have this one massive reveal in February, there's nothing to re-energize the fanbase in August, when the game actually comes out.

Well said. Not certain why some can't grasp this marketing 101 concept...

# 191 kjcheezhead @ 02/09/11 12:54 PM

I like the tuner sets, especially after some of Madden 11's problems. There were problems with strat pad, kicking meter and overall defense that needed immediate attention. Hopefully, we aren't looking for a 5th patch in December to correct these things in Madden 12.

I don't like the surpise onsides as presented for a couple of reasons. First, as people have pointed out the video shows the kickoff get picked up very nonchalantly by the recieving team which takes away from the excitement of a moment like that. The other is that they are only allowing it 2x per game. Unless this game is being played with "fair play" settings, I don't like it. As another poster said, it shouldn't be limited imo. The success rate just should go down. After a second attempt, the kickoff team should be ready for it and it should have a next to zero chance of working.

I realise this is an early build, but if they are showing it to get feedback then that's my 2 cents. I think if it plays out like it did in the video and only allowed 2x per game for no real reason, then the feature won't be well recieved.

# 192 Hooe @ 02/09/11 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The GIGGAS


	Because the features aren't complete yet. They're just ideas right now. Some of them are in the process of getting implemented. Remember the complaints about how the crowd sounds were going to be improved, and then time ran out and they didn't get in?

This x 1000. Remember that we're still five months out; EA is still hard at work on this game.

If such a scenario were to happen like the one Giggas poses, EA would at-worst potentially be opening themselves up to an unwanted lawsuit for false advertising, and at-best tick a lot of fans off for not delivering promised features.

# 193 Senator Palmer @ 02/09/11 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	Also, I feel that having a former college QB at the top will help out as well.

And just to put this out there about former QBs, they've had former football players on the team before. One of them helped design the playbooks if memory serves me correctly (might still be there, not sure), and one of the them, a former UF QB, was the MoCap for the QB throwing motions in Madden 08, which were horrible.

# 194 roadman @ 02/09/11 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	And just to put this out there about former QBs, they've had former football players on the team before. One of them helped design the playbooks if memory serves me correctly (might still be there, not sure), and one of the them, a former UF QB, was the MoCap for the QB throwing motions in Madden 08, which were horrible.

All I meant is that it can't hurt.

The more the merrier is the way I see it.

Plus, having Fight Night on your resume can't hurt, either.

# 195 guaps @ 02/09/11 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHooe


	This x 1000. Remember that we're still five months out; EA is still hard at work on this game. If such a scenario were to happen like the one Giggas poses, EA would at-worst potentially be opening themselves up to an unwanted lawsuit for false advertising, and at-best tick a lot of fans off for not delivering promised features.

I don't worry too much about false promises or not delivering, but I just want them to be more open and frank about their own game and its flaws.

FIFA's producer David Rutter has already gone publicly about FIFA 12 - ~7 months from its release - and spoken somewhat critically about their AI (we've done a good job, but...) and called some of their current features "a bit lame" and "last-gen". He hasn't promised new features, but he's being very passionate about the game he's making and that is what I want to hear from a producer.

# 196 Hooe @ 02/09/11 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdevil20


	This is not a bash, these are facts.

Wholeheartedly disagree.

EA thus far has delivered everything they explicitly promised with online franchise; they never guaranteed server-side updates, and even if they did they've fulfilled that requirement via roster updates. Does that mean we're all happy with it? No. But they never mentioned salary cap / free agency in their buildup, rather they focused on the more multiplayer components of it.

I also dispute the notion that Pro-Tak was not adjusted from M10 to M11. It clearly was; larger pileups happen more appropriately, and the frequency of that one "get tackled by everybody... or not" animation was significantly reduced. There actually were animation improvements across the board between M10 and M11, though many of them were subtle things that aren't as immediately noticeable at first blush.

Finally, to my recollection, EA has never stated anything about adding more penalties beyond what is in the game already. They did add animations for penalties such as holding so that it has the appearance of being less random, thus appearing more realistic and have definitely tuned penalties; I see called penalties in this game out-of-the-box, which hasn't happened really ever before for me in a Madden game. Granted, they're probably still too low in frequency speaking from a "sim" gamer's perspective, but work has obviously been done to that end.

# 197 kjcheezhead @ 02/09/11 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHooe


	Wholeheartedly disagree. EA thus far has delivered everything they explicitly promised with online franchise; they never guaranteed server-side updates, and even if they did they've fulfilled that requirement via roster updates. Does that mean we're all happy with it? No. But they never mentioned salary cap / free agency in their buildup, rather they focused on the more multiplayer components of it. I also dispute the notion that Pro-Tak was not adjusted from M10 to M11. It clearly was; larger pileups happen more appropriately, and the frequency of that one "get tackled by everybody... or not" animation was significantly reduced. There actually were animation improvements across the board between M10 and M11, though many of them were subtle things that aren't as immediately noticeable at first blush. Finally, to my recollection, EA has never stated anything about adding more penalties beyond what is in the game already. They did add animations for penalties such as holding so that it has the appearance of being less random, thus appearing more realistic and have definitely tuned penalties; I see called penalties in this game out-of-the-box, which hasn't happened really ever before for me in a Madden game. Granted, they're probably still too low in frequency speaking from a "sim" gamer's perspective, but work has obviously been done to that end.

Server side fixes were promised based on usage.

Quote: " Because everything was built to be server-based for Online Franchise, things like CPU logic would have to be run on that server, so we were not able to make that a part of the online franchise experience by the time the game will hit the shelves. Based on usage once the game is released we will obviously look to update and change whatever the community feels is most important."

Taken from online franchise blog.

http://maddennfl.easports.com/blog.a...0franchise%201

# 198 Hooe @ 02/09/11 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	Server side fixes were promised based on usage. Quote: " Because everything was built to be server-based for Online Franchise, things like CPU logic would have to be run on that server, so we were not able to make that a part of the online franchise experience by the time the game will hit the shelves. Based on usage once the game is released we will obviously look to update and change whatever the community feels is most important." Taken from online franchise blog. http://maddennfl.easports.com/blog.a...0franchise%201

Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember one of the devs saying that, based on their tracking information, online franchise is either THE least or one of the least-used features in M10/M11; thus potentially failing the "based on usage" qualifier.

Not to say that I don't want a more expansive online franchise mode; I do. That said, I think that the ideas that EA has lied or even mislead its userbase are shortsighted.

# 199 kjcheezhead @ 02/09/11 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHooe


	Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember one of the devs saying that, based on their tracking information, online franchise is either THE least or one of the least-used features in M10/M11; thus potentially failing the "based on usage" qualifier. Not to say that I don't want a more expansive online franchise mode; I do. That said, I think that the ideas that EA has lied or even mislead its userbase are shortsighted.

I believe you are correct, but given how bare the mode was, I think this is a cop out. One or two of the the features deemed most important like trade logic or salary contracts could have been added to see if it would increase usage instead of ignoring it completely for 2 years.

Superstar mode in Madden also doesn't get used very much. However My Player mode in NBA2k11 is praised all the time. That suggests that maybe if madden had a better superstar mode then it currently does, people would use it more. Just my opinion.

# 200 Senator Palmer @ 02/09/11 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	All I meant is that it can't hurt. The more the merrier is the way I see it. Plus, having Fight Night on your resume can't hurt, either.

Oh no, I was just throwing it out there. I don't think it's an automatic win as history has shown, but like you said, I see it as a positive

. Now that Mike Heimerdinger has some time on his hands, maybe he can come back in like he did last year with the run blocking and sure up the pass protections, and defensive line stunts.

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