Tiger Woods 11 News Post

Tiger Needs Wins for EA Deal to Make Sense

09:59 PM - November 29, 2010 by RaychelSnr

Reuters has the scoop:

Quote:


	"This is no threat against Tiger," Ricitiello said at the Reuters Global Media Summit in New York. "We're with him because he has the promise of being the world's best golfer. "We have no plans to move away from him, but it's a business relationship on the basis of we make the best golf game and he's the best golfer," he added. "Both of those things need to be true in the long run for the partnership to make sense."

I somewhat agree with EA's approach to this. If Tiger's star does fade, there's no reason to brand a golf game around him anymore if he's no longer by far and away the best player in the world. But as far as will he return to that level of dominance, who knows? But it's pretty apparent EA wants Tiger to perform better to keep the agreement intact.

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Member Comments

# 1 jcon4 @ 11/29/10 10:18 PM

I've been wondering about this! If he doesn't follow through... will we be looking at "EA SPORTS Phil 2012!"

# 2 ThatRadioGuy @ 11/30/10 11:11 AM

..

I have covered professional golf since the late eighties in my job. During the dot.com boom, I was a gaming journalist/executive in Los Angeles full-time. So .. I have a fairly unique take on this from many years looking at both sides of the coin.

Chris said in the post:

"If Tiger's star does fade, there's no reason to brand a golf game around him anymore if he's no longer by far and away the best player in the world."

Well, actually, if you want to go back in history and look at how it was done before Tiger Woods, that's exactly how golf was marketed to gamers. There was a great old series called "Links" that went back many years to the origin of the personal computer. It was a company called "Access". They signed Arnold Palmer to be on the box of their game. This was some 30+ years since Arnold Palmer won a major tournament. In addition, there was a direct competitor to Links in the form of a company called "Accolade". They put out "Jack Nicklaus Golf". These were the two big boys, Accolade and Access. Microsoft eventually bought Access and shut down "Links" and Accolade just kinda faded away. So, the previous history of golf games is exactly the opposite of Chris' statement. Golf games have been marketed with golfers that have long since passed their prime. They did this mostly due to the professional player's popularity and endearing nature.

You could make the statement, "Well, jhees, that's Arnold Palmer, Dave. There's no comparison." Actually, and we need to get a grip on this, Tiger Woods has won not just more .. but .. MANY more major championships than Arnold Palmer ever did. "Well, it's Jack Nicklaus, the greatest golfer of all time". That's arguable. I say it was an amateur golfer, who was a lawyer by trade, from Atlanta in the twenties that retired from competitive golf at the age of 30. "Well, how many times did HE win The Masters?"

He invented The Masters.

And the golf course it is played on.

So, everything is relative. Electronic Arts is well served by its relationship with Tiger Woods. Gaming is different in marketing. You need the sizzle. This isn't Augusta National Golf Club. This is modern media. And if people talk about it, the kids .. they just love it. Remember, this is a genre that worships games where you blow people's brains out with a bazooka to the face and we all get a little "Hot Coffee" while playing GTA. This is gaming. Never forget that.

If Tiger Woods never wins another golf tournament, it will be quite some time before there will be another golfer that champions a game in the marketplace. There is nobody .. nobody .. that reaches across the divide of demographics that Earl's boy Eldrick reaches. You have just witnessed an anomaly for the ages, folks. Never done before and probably never again. Tiger Woods is golf to two generations. No amount of skanks will change that. He is "The Legend from Los Angeles".

I foresee the next great golfer coming from Asia. And it won't be one golfer. It will be 320 great golfers.

But that's not for another thirty years.

So, until then, it's all Tiger all the time. And for EA, they'll ride that pony in to the sunset.

DD

..

# 3 Beastly Wayz @ 11/30/10 11:36 AM

Good coment by ThatRadioGuy....Iagree with you 110% on everythign that you sd. Well maybe not the 320 Asain Golfers part, but damn close......

# 4 Beastly Wayz @ 11/30/10 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beast0627


	Good coment by ThatRadioGuy....Iagree with you 110% on everythign that you sd. Well maybe not the 320 Asain Golfers part, but damn close......

Also I misspelled - comment - so there

# 5 ThatRadioGuy @ 11/30/10 12:09 PM

:-) No problem, Beast. I used to be Editor-in-Chief of a print golf magazine. I go through posts online and marvel at the quality of writing that gets published on these websites. You have to remember, though, on these websites, these are just kids that get paid a free game to write an article that takes 30 hours of research. It's fun research, though!

If you see improper grammar or spelling .. or even a bizarre philosophy .. cut these people a break. They can't make a living at this stuff. They destroyed that chance with the "click through" philosophy. I was General Manager of a Sports NETWORK in the late nineties and early 2000's. My network went from .. 300,000 page views a day to ... of people who viewed the page, how many clicked on the ad? OK, of people who clicked on the ad, how many BOUGHT something? OK, of people who BOUGHT something, how much did they buy?

I went from 300,000 page views to $0.32

And therein lies why the dot.com boom went bust.

How many people looked at that ad in a print magazine? Well, hard to tell. We have a circulation of 3.2 million. OK, sell off of that ad rate. How about radio? How many people hit a button to go to another station when a commercial came on? Well, hard to tell. But, we have an AQH of 9.4 Excellent, sell off that ad rate. And so on ..

For example, of that billboard, how many people climbed up a ladder and pushed on that billboard and were magically transported to the showroom where a 2010 Mustang was sitting? Well, that's not the way it works.

Advertising is nebulous. It's like a cloud. You see a horse, I see a dog.

And that, kiddos, is why the dot.com boom went *kablooey* and what you read on the web is nowhere near journalism.

There's just no money in it.

Anywhere.

Of any count.

Of any kind.

Period.

# 6 mike24forever @ 11/30/10 12:21 PM

Lately I tend to disagree with a lot of Chris's Blogs. I do not understand the way he looks at anything EA does. Tiger winning is great for any company that is sponsoring Tiger, however he is still the main and most famous golfer in the world NO MATTER HOW HE IS PERFORMING. Again, he is the most FAMOUS golfer in the world. Why would EA put anyone else's name on their golf game.

EA would be stupid to drop his name from the game, the same way it would be stupid for EA to drop the Madden name from their NFL game. PRODUCT RECOGNITION!!!!!!!!!!!!

# 7 ThatRadioGuy @ 11/30/10 12:47 PM

..

Well, ms24forever, you gotta be realistic when you see opinions or philosophy direction of a website. And let me say that I speak from grand experience. I was there. I know how it works. And I am no longer working with EA or a competitor of EA anymore. I don't care what they think.

If games make more money than all Hollywood movies COMBINED .. and the people who give their opinion or sway a website direction on said games .. are unpaid .. what do you think is going to happen? This is capitalism, man .. there is big money on the table here.

This is the danger you get in to when you have unpaid "journalists".

It's simple, you do the math. It's just capitalism and marketing.

On the other hand, I'd be a stupid businessman to not spend $2000 when it would make a difference of $650,000 in profit.

Take a look at everything you see on these sites, consider motivation and perspective. Remember, all politics are local. And don't judge .. until you've actually been put in that position. You might do the same.

Wildly successful games are profitable for both game sites and game makers.

All politics are local.

..

# 8 Money99 @ 12/02/10 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms24forever


	Lately I tend to disagree with a lot of Chris's Blogs. I do not understand the way he looks at anything EA does. Tiger winning is great for any company that is sponsoring Tiger, however he is still the main and most famous golfer in the world NO MATTER HOW HE IS PERFORMING. Again, he is the most FAMOUS golfer in the world. Why would EA put anyone else's name on their golf game. EA would be stupid to drop his name from the game, the same way it would be stupid for EA to drop the Madden name from their NFL game. PRODUCT RECOGNITION!!!!!!!!!!!!

To play devils advocate, the difference is that Madden's name hasn't been sullied. Tiger's image is in ruins, yet I'm sure he's still demanding top dollar to be on the cover of EA's golf game.
That's where the conundrum lies. If Tiger isn't winning, and his name is dirt, then why pay top-dollar for that spokesman.

I heard an interesting stat that said the year before the whoring came out, Tiger's sponsors spent $70M on advertising splashing his brand all over the world. Since last Thanksgiving? $700K.
That's an enormous drop. Tiger's earning power is greatly reduced. If he's not winning, then all he's known for is 'that guy who used to be good, but now he's a pig who nails pigs".

People will still buy EA's golf game with or without Tiger on the cover. In fact, I'm starting to wonder how many fringe golf fans stayed away from this game because of Tiger?

# 9 DivotMaker @ 12/03/10 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osubeavs721


	@thelwig- if they continue to just have 20 pros or so i will continue to stop buying the game. they need a pga tour sim. get all 125 returning card players in the game with 20+ courses with course packs available for cheap DLC to just boot the courses off the HDD. Just give me something with no power boost and post shot spin alter. Thats fine if you choose a power swing for you swing but make it way harder to be accurate and make people choose what kind of spin they want BEFORE the shot. Make this game realistic and hard

The reason there are only so many license Pros rendered in the game is due to licensing. There is no PGA TOUR Players Association as there is in the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, etc. It is much easier to put every player from those associations in the game because the license for the Players Association in each game is easier to get. Getting every PGA TOUR Pro or the top 125 would be extremely problematic and far more costly than traditional players licenses for EA as they would have to negotiate the rights to each player individually to include their likeness in the game. The PGA TOUR license allows EA to use their "names" in the game, but not their likenesses.

As far as not having post shot spin and boost in the game and a challenging format, that is already in the game in the form of TOUR Pro mode. Playing TW11 in TOUR Pro is challenging with thew DS3 or MS wireless controllers, but the real challenge is playing with the PS3 Move....

# 10 DivotMaker @ 12/03/10 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelwig14


	You didnt understand what my point. Have the entire Tour...but allow the user to pick among 20 pros or so to start a season. Give the user an option to not have to create a dumb create a golfer. No other EA game forces you to play with a fake player.

And no other EA Sports game represents and "individual" sport. The rest of their game are TEAM sports. Big difference. A great many users enjoy creating their own golfer and building that Golfer up. However, I do not disagree with you that it would be good to be able to play in a season with the Pros if you so desired.

# 11 rangerrick012 @ 12/04/10 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelwig14


	Not true...Fight Night allows you to start a career with Lennox or Tyson or whatnot. It is absolutely unacceptable that I can't start a Tour with Tiger or Phil or Sergio or whoever is available...even if it is just 5 golfers. I don't want to quarterback the Cowboys and I don't want to play a Tour as myself either. Until they fix this, I will never buy another Tiger game.

The more options the better. I don't understand why the option isn't at least there for those who want to play a tour season with a pro and don't want to start a career w/ a created player.

Career mode obviously needs to be deeper. Adding the Nationwide Tour and Q School would be great. I just seems like EA never wants to go the extra mile on certain things. They added Ryder Cup this year, which was a great step, but then there aren't even enough pros to make a legitimate realistic Ryder Cup competition.

I have the same gripe w/ tennis games, not enough real pros and not deep enough career modes.

On Topic: Tiger is and will always be the most recognizable face on the PGA Tour by a sizable margin. If EA was smart they would lock him up for life so that even after he retires his name is on the game ala Madden, even if there's another player on the cover.

# 12 DivotMaker @ 12/05/10 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelwig14


	Not true...Fight Night allows you to start a career with Lennox or Tyson or whatnot. It is absolutely unacceptable that I can't start a Tour with Tiger or Phil or Sergio or whoever is available...even if it is just 5 golfers. I don't want to quarterback the Cowboys and I don't want to play a Tour as myself either. Until they fix this, I will never buy another Tiger game.

"Fight Night"...okay, I missed one. And lets not kid ourselves here....."Fight Night" is NOT a major EA Sports game with licenses like the team sports and Golf.

Again, not disagreeing with you in case you hadn't noticed, except for never playing another TW game because of it....you are missing out on some really good videogame Golf, but whatever.

# 13 rangerrick012 @ 12/06/10 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelwig14


	Fight Night is a huge seller for EA even with the button debacle that cost EA quite a few sales. It is all about principle...I can't support a game that doesn't allow such a simple, obvious option. It is braindead on EA's part. And considering Tiger was a massive sales disappointment this year, hopefully they will stop being comfortable.

The problem with that is that EA may (mistakenly IMO) interpret the lower sales as having everything to do w/ Tiger's on and off course woes, and nothing to do w/ the perceived quality of the product. While Tiger's woes may have something to do w/ lower sales, I do think the perceived quality of the game has something to do with it as well. Tiger needs a real 'career' mode. That much is obvious.

# 14 DivotMaker @ 12/06/10 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelwig14


	Fight Night is a huge seller for EA even with the button debacle that cost EA quite a few sales.

The sales numbers do not seem to support this from what I have seen....irregardless, the Tiger series has not had the option to use a Pro in Career mode for a number of years and there is little to no outcry for this other than this thread and isolated comments from you and a handful of other users. If there is little feedback from the community or focus groups to include such functionality, EA is not going to spend much time worrying about it.

# 15 stcloudgopher @ 12/07/10 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatRadioGuy


	.. So, until then, it's all Tiger all the time. And for EA, they'll ride that pony in to the sunset. ..

"From my vantage point, that looks safely in the fairway."

"Looks like he hit the tree, Jim," is still my favorite -- maybe my favorite line from any game. Sorry kids, sometimes it's fun to be "old" and remember the "day." Oh, and youngsters, that's from World Class Leader Boards. There was no "name" involved, I don't think. But, man, was it fun!

# 16 Money99 @ 12/07/10 09:39 AM

Another interesting fun fact about Tigers marketing power.

I'm reading a book right not about Alex Ovechkin and I'm at a part where he signed with agent powerhouse IMG.
They use something called a DBI or Davie Brown Index.

Essentially, the DBI is a collection of polls, or survey's, from 1.5M people on how they view or feel about celebrities.
This index value is then calculated to give marketers an idea of how recognizable or powerful someone's marketing value is.
It's very rare for an athlete to be in the top 10 as those spots are usually taken up by singers or actors. Oprah, for example is at, or near the top.

In the book it's revealed through IMG that Tiger Woods was #9 on this list prior to last years incident. His 'brand' was worth millions because not only was his face and name recognizable to the entire planet, but people had a very favorable view of Tiger. They liked him.

Since the incident? He's now 2250. To put that in perspective, he's on the same level as Pamela Anderson and Pauly Shore for marketability. That's how far his stock has fallen.
IMG did some sample testing and found that people felt Tiger lied to them. He built this wholesome image of being a good person, a great family man as well as a great golfer. But all of that came tumbling down to the point that Encino's man's best friend was as marketable as the world's former #1 golfer.

EA and Nike are sticking with him only because they're scared to leave him only to see Tiger return to being a dominant force. But if Tiger doesn't win a Major next season, he's finished.

# 17 DivotMaker @ 12/07/10 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelwig14


	There is no question that his off the course antics played a part...but like you..it also has something to do with such a stale product. To the average consumer, it is the same game every year but they added the Ryder Cup this past one.

They added quite a bit more than that to TW11, but since you can't be bothered to play the game, I won't bore you with the details....

# 18 DivotMaker @ 12/07/10 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelwig14


	FN3 sold 4 times as much as TW10 and FN4 sold about 2x (the drop can largely be attributed to the button debacle).

I prefer to see links to actual sales numbers instead of taking your word for it. Have to say I find that hard to believe since TW10 was mentioned last year as the #15 best selling videogame of that time period and no I do not have a link to the article but it was on Gamespot, IGN or one of the other online publications and their numbers came from NPD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelwig14


	It may not be mentioned in focus groups...but if a company relies heavily on focus groups and not common sense evaluation of their product, then that is bad business. I know many people who no longer buy Tiger because it is stale and has a very poor career mode. And these people don't post on message boards.

Again, I find one or two posts YEARLY from people like you criticizing EA for not adding TOUR Pros for career mode. Out of literally THOUSANDS of posts. Lets not try to say that there is a large contingent of users sitting on the sideline because of this one omission....

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelwig14


	It isn't a tough concept. You are asking consumers to buy Tiger Woods golf but they can't even use him in a career mode. It is baffling.

Doesn't "baffle" me at all, but I will agree that it makes sense to give the user the CHOICE when playing Career Mode....

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Tiger Needs Wins for EA Deal to Make Sense