Madden NFL 11 News Post

Robert Flores Goes One-On-One With EA Sports Madden NFL 11 Game Designers (ESPN)

05:17 PM - August 23, 2010 by Steve_OS

Part 1: How Brett Favre's return impacted the Vikings team ratings | Fans reactions to Game Flow technology
Part 2: Hard core gamers reactions to Game Flow | NFL players reactions to player ratings
Part 3: NFL players involvement in game design | Why Gus Johnson was chosen to be voice of Madden NFL 11 | Could NCAA Football 11 team beat a middle of the road Madden NFL 11 team | How working on Madden NFL 11 changes the way designers watch NFL games
Part 4: Why the NFL considers the EA Sports Madden design team to be the 33rd NFL franchise | What's in-store for Madden NFL 12

Source - ESPN - Let if Flo

Game: Madden NFL 11Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 96 - View All

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Member Comments

# 81 Vikes1 @ 08/27/10 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJenness


	And yeah, the "short development cycle" excuse has worn too thin for me. As another poster said, OTHER companies (or even other EA titles) don't seem to have this ongoing time restraint issue as Tiburon does.

It does at least seem like other dev teams may be getting more, outta less.

I'm just an idiot behind a keyboard, what the hell do I know? But it just seems to me that maybe too much time gets wasted by Tiburon going back and forth about what the hardcore/casual gamers will be attracted to.

As others have said...just focus on making the most realistic in depth NFL gaming experience possible. I could of course be wrong, but I've got a feeling that even the supposed "Casual" gamer may appreciate an extremely realistic football game. I mean what the hell, their just people too.

# 82 rooney8 @ 08/27/10 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vikes1


	It does at least seem like other dev teams may be getting more, outta less. I'm just an idiot behind a keyboard, what the hell do I know? But it just seems to me that maybe too much time gets wasted by Tiburon going back and forth about what the hardcore/casual gamers will be attracted to. As others have said...just focus on making the most realistic in depth NFL gaming experience possible. I could of course be wrong, but I've got a feeling that even the supposed "Casual" gamer may appreciate an extremely realistic football game. I mean what the hell, their just people too.

I agree hardcore fans won't be happy with anything but a sim game but casual players will enjoy it as well. I don't see anyone enjoying being helpless on D.

# 83 rooney8 @ 08/27/10 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marktg30


	In that case, the marketing department is poorly marketing their product. The best thing they could have done was come out ASAP and say "We are totally focusing on fixing gameplay and Franchise mode is taking a back seat once again, but next year it will be better." This year's iteration is rather unforgivable if you ask me. But since you aren't I will just keep that to myself...

I have never seen a game just released and the developers talking so much about next years release.

# 84 roadman @ 08/27/10 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney8


	I have never seen a game just released and the developers talking so much about next years release.

We knew 2 months ago they were tinkering with and working on offline franchise mode. Other than that, I haven't seen what else is being worked on for next years offering.

# 85 MeanMrMustard @ 08/27/10 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	Wow, a gimmick or Ask Madden 2.0 that is being used by 70-80% of the folks that purchased Madden? How can a gimmick be use that much?

Well, 1. it's the default option, if I'm not mistaken. So that gets a lot of people using it just because they don't tinker with settings ever.

And 2... respectfully, it's really not a gimmick. If you make your own gameplan instead of using the default ones that pull up Four Verticals and Engage Eight every few plays, it can be a lot of fun. I even use it in online games for about the first half, except in goalline situations and the like, and then go conventional playcalling in the second half to make adjustments. It really adds an element to the game if you take the time to build your own. Though, I will say, the build-your-own gameplan really needs some tweaking. I don't think its 5-star priority system does a great job of mixing up plays. The highest rated plays just get picked over and over again, it seems like.

# 86 Phil_Frazier @ 08/27/10 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlequin782


	The gameplay isnt updated and improved from year to year because EA Tib spends 80% of its time and resources on procuring advertising contracts.. And during the production cycle, those advertisements take priority over the actual gameplay. Its clear to me that EA's production and design squad spends more time pondering where to put the old spice logo or ensuring that the doritos brand is replicated and that brand recognition is accurate throughout the game, rather than fixing the damn gameplay.

You state this as though it is a fact. Where's your data to back up this allegation? I know for certain this isn't true but would take another look at our priorities if you had data to back this up. Or the likely scenerio is that you are being sarcastic. You need to put a little smiley at the end of your post if you are going to go that route.

Phil

# 87 rooney8 @ 08/27/10 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlequin782


	The gameplay isnt updated and improved from year to year because EA Tib spends 80% of its time and resources on procuring advertising contracts.. And during the production cycle, those advertisements take priority over the actual gameplay. Its clear to me that EA's production and design squad spends more time pondering where to put the old spice logo or ensuring that the doritos brand is replicated and that brand recognition is accurate throughout the game, rather than fixing the damn gameplay.

I think Madden is years behind games like Fifa, Nhl and others but they are leading the way with in game advertising and milking the gamer with charges after the purchase. I expect those other games to follow suit.

# 88 Phil_Frazier @ 08/27/10 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJenness


	I was simply addressing his remarks about them being open and honest with us about nothing being done to franchise...his statement was not true, IMHO. yeah, they WERE honest, but only JUST prior to E3 when the news would have been out of the bag anyway. IMHO, it was PURELY for a little PR bump more than a real intent to be "open and honest" with us. I am not claiming the fault lies solely on Phil's shouldres, only that he shouldn't have even made that statement about being open and honest.

'When' we decide to announce a detail does not change the fact that we did announce this fact well in advance (2 months) of product release. I would say that my statement is true. We announced it just before E3 simply because we felt like our community was expecting a Franchise announcement @ E3. The news would not have been out of the bag @ E3 because we had our game modes locked out in that particular build. The more likely scenerio is that the information would have been out there in late July when we start sending out review code.

We don't typically announce 'bad stuff' at all during our PR calendar and only chose to do this after reading the forums. It was clear people were expecting changes that we were not going to deliver on. It's really as simple as that.

Phil

# 89 G-Men_in_Mass @ 08/27/10 01:01 PM

Phil,

Don't you feel that you have let some of the long time Madden players down, by not improving the Franchise Mode? I've been playing Madden since I was 12 years old, (32 now) and I play it because I love the NFL and when I turn on the Madden I want NFL football. I'm sure you have the numbers to back up your reason to add OTP, but for the some we want a really deep owners/franchise mode! We want the NFL, not a arcade game.. Now please dont get me wrong I love Madden and I have a great time (what time I have) playing the franchise mode.. I just feel the reason Madden was and is the greatest Football Franchise was because of the early days when you first gave us a ful season, then franchise/owners mode..... Thats what made you Great, why not stick to what works... IMO you might see sales go way up, if you go back and look at the early vision of what Madden was and thatis NFL Football, and not OTP or On-line leaderboards... Just my 2 cents..

# 90 roadman @ 08/27/10 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlequin782


	Im not being sarcastic...the proof is in the gameplay..can you not piece 2+2 together?...the only thing that changes from year to year IS the advertisements...gameplay issues and franchise mode go untouched or remain broken altogether..what other explanation is there for such a blatant oversight and lack of concern about the gameplay, while increasing the aspects of presentation every year (procuring music licenses from music bands, procuring advertising and brand placement contracts etc.)

So, adding a locomotion system, adding a catching debug tool for leaping completions and sidleline catches and adding good run blocking is all presentation issues and has nothing to do with game play?

No need to go through each one and blast away at them, they are game play additions.

# 91 roadman @ 08/27/10 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by udungoofed


	Phil, any information regarding a patch soon? Anything at all? The ease in scoring/gaining yards is just murdering the fun out of my OF. We're only running about 80-90 plays a game and 20+ teams are posting 30+ points a week. There's just no excitement in scoring a TD anymore because it comes so easy.

One is coming around the start of the NFL season and the other one's timetable is near the end of September.

Ian said it in last weeks blog.

# 92 ryan36 @ 08/27/10 02:00 PM

Guys , constructive criticism is fine. I think a little secret is that EA WANTS the game to sell well, and listens to feedback. If you're addressing Phil (or any dev) directly, don't be personal, and don't say things that can be construed as personal attacks.

ONLY WARNING

# 93 roadman @ 08/27/10 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlequin782


	yes they are gameplay additions that I truly believe were tacked on at the end of the dev cycle as an afterthought...this is why they are so poorly integrated, because they werent a focal point of the production cycle to begin with..the gameplay elements you mentioned are promotional talking points to sell a product. But ok, as a consumer who has already wasted my $60 on Madden 2011 for XBOX 360 this year's game, I feel entitled to express my discontent a bit..so lets actually get into the dysfunctional nature of the gameplay. The actual physics and execution of the locomotion system is down right pathetic. Runners look as if they are being pulled along on a string with no weight to them, instead of than being propelled by force stemming from the momentum created by their footsteps. 90% of the time, players, particularly defensive players are out of balance (not off balance, but out of balance - there is a difference)...motion shifting is still rampant, broken tackles are prevalent to a level of absolute absurdity. Polygonal clipping is still rampant. There are no true to name longsnappers included in the game. Suction catching, suction tackles, and suction blocking still plague the gameplay. The strategy pad was just a downright bad idea. Ratings and the predetermined animation sequence dictates outcome of gameplay rather than coaching and strategy. I can go on and on. But the reality is that Physics are the most important aspect of football...ask any coach and he will tell you that there is a colossal difference between having a ball carrier who consistently falls forward when being tackled, and one who is being knocked back or knocked to the side when being tackled. And the truth is that the physics of madden are almost completely broken. Yet, as a smoke and mirrors tactic to compensate for the outdated physics EA takes the outcomes which should be dictated by coaching and strategy and reallocates the control of those outcomes to ratings, and predetermined animation sequences. Even though player ratings may matter to some extent, once you get to the NFL level, football isnt about who's bigger or who's stronger or who's ratings are higher...at that level football is mostly and foremost about whichever coach can utilize his team's strengths and exploit the opponent's weaknesses. For instance, a team that has a weak o-line or a weak running game doesnt mean that they shouldnt be able to run the ball at all. That just means that linemen would have to cut block rather than block head up..or that the coach must call more outside run plays...but in madden, none of the strategy behind playcalling matters because ratings and predetermined animation sequences dictate everything - to the extent that basically what you have is just a game full of triggered animation sequences with a couple of inconsequential coaching options thrown in. What people must remember here is that these are National Football League professional players. That means that NO players should be overly dominating and unable to be stopped at all. For instance, if a user has coached his player properly, and has placed them in the position to shut a play down, then the tackle should be made on the ball carrier and the play should be shut down..period..But instead, in madden, it doesnt matter how you coach your team, or what position you put your players in to break up a play, if the cpu has been programmed to use the "break tackle" animation or the "ball carrier fall forward while other players tumbleweed and roll around uselessly around the ball carrier" animation, then at that point coaching is irrelevant. If sloppy, unclean, automated mocap animation (tumble weeding, body morphing, poor collision detection, force fields, one man singular hit tackles etc.) is going to dictate the outcome of gameplay rather than body mechanics, body position, and physics, then there is really is no point in playing the game at all. You can just sim the game, and the outcome will be the same. To give credit where credit is due: Did EA add a few "new gameplay features" as they do every year? sure, but other than the sideline catches which admittedly look and feel incredible, other than that, every other new gameplay element is either poorly integrated, or poorly executed to begin with...thats my opinion after buying the game and experiencing its gameplay.

I agree with you on a few points and disagree with a few others. The points I agree with is the locomotion greatly affected the defense and Ian admitted it did. I've seen it in replays as well. I also agree with the game planning vs ratings matter that you brought up.

I disagree with you not mentioning how well run blocking is this year besides the sideline catches. This was a big overhaul from years past and it shows. WR's are now blocking downfield. Also, sliders do help minimize the breaking tackle phenom that they are looking to patch. Lowering break tackles and increasing the tackle sliders helps minimize the break tackle situation.(doesn't fix it entirely) Of course, this doesn't help people who play online only or don't want to fiddle with sliders out of the box.

# 94 rooney8 @ 08/27/10 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_Frazier_EA


	'When' we decide to announce a detail does not change the fact that we did announce this fact well in advance (2 months) of product release. I would say that my statement is true. We announced it just before E3 simply because we felt like our community was expecting a Franchise announcement @ E3. The news would not have been out of the bag @ E3 because we had our game modes locked out in that particular build. The more likely scenerio is that the information would have been out there in late July when we start sending out review code. We don't typically announce 'bad stuff' at all during our PR calendar and only chose to do this after reading the forums. It was clear people were expecting changes that we were not going to deliver on. It's really as simple as that. Phil

I too figured it was to time the bad PR rather than be honest.

Thanks for the honesty it is appreciated.

# 95 roadman @ 08/27/10 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlequin782


	But thats just it man...Your idea works well in theory, and it probably works well for many people in practice..but the way I think of it is: This is a "next gen" football title...If I wanted to build the automated logistics of my own game, I'd just buy a literal simulation game with nothing more than x's and O's darting across the field... but this is supposed to be a game on consoles that have everything from motion sensing technology (why isnt this being used more?), to RAM that is specifically dedicated to graphics. And the real problem, as I see it, is that the slider sets dont represent EA Tib's hallmark slogan, which is that: if its in the game, its in the game or - if you see it on sundays, you'll see it in the game.. Instead, the solution to the problems that Im hearing is that, "if its in the game, it SHOULD BE in the game, but if it isnt, you can try to put it in the game yourself by adjusting your sliders." I think madden is doing themselves an injustice by trying to target too broad of an audience. What they've got to realize is that they are compromising true authentic football, in the name of appeasement for a few casual weekend players who MIGHT play one season in Franchise mode or lollygag around with virtual trainer or something. But those are people who most likely dont even know real football anyway. People who do know and appreciate true football need an accurate representation of the sport from the only franchise that has the NFL license. I mean, here's my deal: you (the proverbial you, not literally you) either want to make consumers satisfied or you dont..you either want to make a good NFL football game or you dont. If you dont want to make a good football game of if you dont care about making a good NFL football game, then you can focus on making as many consumers satisfied as humanly possible. You can target the casual gamer audience, the female gamers, the pet gamers, the children gamers or whoever else. But if you truly want to satisfy the customers who enjoy the NFL, and seek to get an NFL likeness from video gameplay, then as the ONLY NFL LICENSED FOOTBALL VIDEO GAME some things need to be done to ensure that those people who DO know football, and who CAN see the differences that coaching and strategy make, will enjoy the game you put out..and that the game they play wont just be an automated version dictated by ratings and triggered animations. Ill openly state that, on All pro, the game can be pretty enjoyable, even with its flaws..but All Madden simply takes control from the user/coach and renders body mechanics, body/player positioning, or physics obsolete. And then All Madden makes outcomes completely contingent on the cpu's statistical probability algorithms based on player ratings. I just feel that that is an oversimplification of professional football and that there should be more to professional football than that.

Addressing your first paragraph, there isn't a sports game on LG or NG(whatever the catch phrase is) that I haven't tinkered with sliders. I want the game to be as close as to the players real life stats as I possibly can. Without sliders, I can't accomplish that. So, my thing is, for me, it works in theory and practice.

I agree pretty much with your second paragraph. I just will never try All-Everything as I know it gives the CPU jumps in overall ability.

In closing, I feel the direction of Madden is headed in a more sim direction vs the 07-09. I felt like those were tourney track meets.

# 96 djordan @ 08/27/10 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_Frazier_EA


	You state this as though it is a fact. Where's your data to back up this allegation? I know for certain this isn't true but would take another look at our priorities if you had data to back this up. Or the likely scenerio is that you are being sarcastic. You need to put a little smiley at the end of your post if you are going to go that route. Phil

But we as a community state to the developers FACTS that certain features are still missing after 5 YEARS!!! We mention FACTS such as why there isn't DB shade inside or outside when there was on PS2 version. We mention FACTS such as how Halftime show wasn't improved even though we were told it was going to be for Madden 11.FACTS such as how we still have poor player interaction and gang tackles. We mention facts every year and nothing is done!!!

I know plenty of people feel the same way as me.

# 97 roadman @ 08/27/10 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harlequin782


	I wanted to address this in particular since you mentioned it. I agree with you to some extent. On All Pro, the running game feels very close to perfect...blocking assignments are adhered to, runningbacks hit the hole pretty well, the user controls are pretty tight etc. On all pro, the running game is pretty rewarding. HOWEVER, on all madden this simply isnt the case...I can upload footage to any given media sharing website to show what Im speaking of. I have LITERALLY had my OT not lay a single finger on the D-end. My offensive tackle literally, didnt even try...Im not saying that he just didnt block well..Im saying he actually stood up out of his stance once the ball was snapped, and just watched the defender blow by him to massacre my running back...the OT just didnt even bother...AND it happens consistently..AND he's the best offensive lineman on my team. This is inexcusable to me. And it came to my attention because I had noticed that I couldnt even get out of the backfield with my running backs who are actually speed backs. So I was trying to see who was blowing their blocking assignments or why we were getting demolished up front. I ran back the replay, and INEVITABLY, in addition to the rest of my o-line just getting put on roller skates and obliterated, one or two o-lineman will simply not even bother. Just wont even attempt to block the defensive player. Im not going to try to justify this poor programming and oversight in the production pipeline with some drawn out explanation about the production cycle or whatever else the excuse of the day is.. Perhaps I could adjust sliders, or perhaps I could play on All pro all the time. But the fact of the matter is that this sort of thing shouldnt even be happening in an NFL licensed football game....it doesnt even look right on screen.

Have you played on ALL-Madden on previous Maddens?

I won't touch that level with a 10 ft pole.

Madden is tuned to play close to the NFL on ALL Pro. Experienced users who want a challenge will play on All-Madden.

It's been know that ALL-Madden ratings are in favor of the CPU. Like you said, if you want things on equal footing on All-Madden, then you adjust your sliders up or the All-Madden sliders down.

# 98 roadman @ 08/27/10 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djordan


	But we as a community state to you developers FACTS that certain features are still missing after 5 YEARS!!! We mention FACTS such as why there isn't DB shade inside or outside when there was on PS2 version. We mention FACTS such as how Halftime show wasn't improved even though we were told it was going to be for Madden 11. We mention facts every year and nothing is done!!! I know alot of people feel the same way as me.

Here is another fact. Someone begged and pleaded to get hand towels in the game and they did for Madden 10.

# 99 djordan @ 08/27/10 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	Here is another fact. Someone begged and pleaded to get hand towels in the game and they did for Madden 10.

LOL. I was begging since Madden 2004 man

# 100 roadman @ 08/27/10 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djordan


	LOL. I was begging since Madden 2004 man

See, it happens, it just might take awhile.

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Robert Flores Goes One-On-One With EA Sports Madden NFL 11 Game Designers (ESPN)