Robert Flores Goes One-On-One With EA Sports Madden NFL 11 Game Designers (ESPN)

[udungoofed]

Phil, any information regarding a patch soon? Anything at all?

The ease in scoring/gaining yards is just murdering the fun out of my OF. We're only running about 80-90 plays a game and 20+ teams are posting 30+ points a week.

There's just no excitement in scoring a TD anymore because it comes so easy.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by harlequin782

Im not being sarcastic...the proof is in the gameplay..can you not piece 2+2 together?...the only thing that changes from year to year IS the advertisements...gameplay issues and franchise mode go untouched or remain broken altogether..what other explanation is there for such a blatant oversight and lack of concern about the gameplay, while increasing the aspects of presentation every year (procuring music licenses from music bands, procuring advertising and brand placement contracts etc.)

So, adding a locomotion system, adding a catching debug tool for leaping completions and sidleline catches and adding good run blocking is all presentation issues and has nothing to do with game play?

No need to go through each one and blast away at them, they are game play additions.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by udungoofed

Phil, any information regarding a patch soon? Anything at all? The ease in scoring/gaining yards is just murdering the fun out of my OF. We're only running about 80-90 plays a game and 20+ teams are posting 30+ points a week. There's just no excitement in scoring a TD anymore because it comes so easy.

One is coming around the start of the NFL season and the other one's timetable is near the end of September.

Ian said it in last weeks blog.

[udungoofed]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

One is coming around the start of the NFL season and the other one's timetable is near the end of September. Ian said it in last weeks blog.

Thank you.

[ryan36]

Guys , constructive criticism is fine. I think a little secret is that EA WANTS the game to sell well, and listens to feedback. If you're addressing Phil (or any dev) directly, don't be personal, and don't say things that can be construed as personal attacks.

ONLY WARNING

[harlequin782]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

So, adding a locomotion system, adding a catching debug tool for leaping completions and sidleline catches and adding good run blocking is all presentation issues and has nothing to do with game play? No need to go through each one and blast away at them, they are game play additions.

yes they are gameplay additions that I truly believe were tacked on at the end of the dev cycle as an afterthought...this is why they are so poorly integrated, because they werent a focal point of the production cycle to begin with..the gameplay elements you mentioned are promotional talking points to sell a product.

But ok, as a consumer who has already wasted my $60 on Madden 2011 for XBOX 360, I feel entitled to express my discontent a bit..so lets actually get into the dysfunctional nature of the gameplay. The actual physics and execution of the locomotion system is down right pathetic. Runners look as if they are being pulled along on a string with no weight to them, instead of being propelled by force stemming from the momentum created by their footsteps. 90% of the time, players, particularly defensive players, are out of balance (not off balance, but out of balance - there is a difference)...motion shifting is still rampant, broken tackles are prevalent to a level of absolute absurdity. Polygonal clipping is still rampant. There are no true to name longsnappers included in the game. Suction catching, suction tackles, and suction blocking still plague the gameplay. The strategy pad was just a downright bad idea. Ratings and the predetermined animation sequence dictates outcome of gameplay rather than coaching and strategy. I can go on and on...but the worse part to me is that all of this is occuring on a current gen iteration of the game. Whereas, although I did buy both 2k4 and 2k5, Im not some 2k5 fanboy who still lives in 2005. I dont constantly compare madden to 2k5, and I acknowledge that 2k4/2k5 had its flaws. But I DO expect madden to evolve and improve to a level that is at least equivalent in physicality and body mechanics to a game made half a decade ago. I think thats a reasonable expectation.

But the reality is that, because football is a game of inches, Physics are the most important aspect of football...ask any coach and he will tell you that there is a colossal difference between having a ball carrier who consistently falls forward when being tackled, and one who is consistently being knocked back or knocked to the side when he is tackled. And the truth is that the physics of madden are almost completely broken. Yet, as a smoke and mirrors tactic to compensate for the outdated physics EA takes the outcomes which should be dictated by coaching and strategy and reallocates the control of those outcomes to ratings, and predetermined animation sequences.

Even though player ratings may matter to some extent, once you get to the NFL level, football isnt about who's bigger or who's stronger or who's ratings are higher...at that level football is mostly and foremost about whichever coach can utilize his team's strengths and exploit the opponent's weaknesses. For instance, a team that has a weak o-line or a weak running game doesnt mean that they shouldnt be able to run the ball at all. That just means that linemen would have to cut block rather than block head up..or that the coach must call more outside run plays...but in madden, none of the strategy behind playcalling matters because ratings and automated animation sequences dictate everything - to the extent that basically what you have is just a game full of triggered animation sequences with a couple of inconsequential coaching options thrown in.

What people must remember here is that these are National Football League professional players. That means that NO players should be overly dominating and unable to be stopped at all. For instance, if a user has coached his player properly, and has placed them in the position to shut a play down, then the tackle should be made on the ball carrier and the play should be shut down..period..But instead, in madden, it doesnt matter how you coach your team, or what position you put your players in to break up a play, if the cpu has been programmed to use the "break tackle" animation or the "ball carrier fall forward while other players tumbleweed and roll around uselessly around the ball carrier" animation, then at that point coaching is irrelevant. If sloppy, unclean, automated mocap animation (tumble weeding, body morphing, poor collision detection, force fields, one man singular hit tackles etc.) is going to dictate the outcome of gameplay rather than body mechanics, body position, and physics, then there is really is no point in playing the game at all. You can just sim the game, and the outcome will be the same.

To give credit where credit is due: Did EA add a few "new gameplay features" as they do every year? sure, but other than the sideline catches *which admittedly look and feel incredible*, other than that, every other new gameplay element is either poorly integrated, or poorly executed to begin with...thats my opinion after buying the game and experiencing its gameplay.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by harlequin782

yes they are gameplay additions that I truly believe were tacked on at the end of the dev cycle as an afterthought...this is why they are so poorly integrated, because they werent a focal point of the production cycle to begin with..the gameplay elements you mentioned are promotional talking points to sell a product. But ok, as a consumer who has already wasted my $60 on Madden 2011 for XBOX 360 this year's game, I feel entitled to express my discontent a bit..so lets actually get into the dysfunctional nature of the gameplay. The actual physics and execution of the locomotion system is down right pathetic. Runners look as if they are being pulled along on a string with no weight to them, instead of than being propelled by force stemming from the momentum created by their footsteps. 90% of the time, players, particularly defensive players are out of balance (not off balance, but out of balance - there is a difference)...motion shifting is still rampant, broken tackles are prevalent to a level of absolute absurdity. Polygonal clipping is still rampant. There are no true to name longsnappers included in the game. Suction catching, suction tackles, and suction blocking still plague the gameplay. The strategy pad was just a downright bad idea. Ratings and the predetermined animation sequence dictates outcome of gameplay rather than coaching and strategy. I can go on and on. But the reality is that Physics are the most important aspect of football...ask any coach and he will tell you that there is a colossal difference between having a ball carrier who consistently falls forward when being tackled, and one who is being knocked back or knocked to the side when being tackled. And the truth is that the physics of madden are almost completely broken. Yet, as a smoke and mirrors tactic to compensate for the outdated physics EA takes the outcomes which should be dictated by coaching and strategy and reallocates the control of those outcomes to ratings, and predetermined animation sequences. Even though player ratings may matter to some extent, once you get to the NFL level, football isnt about who's bigger or who's stronger or who's ratings are higher...at that level football is mostly and foremost about whichever coach can utilize his team's strengths and exploit the opponent's weaknesses. For instance, a team that has a weak o-line or a weak running game doesnt mean that they shouldnt be able to run the ball at all. That just means that linemen would have to cut block rather than block head up..or that the coach must call more outside run plays...but in madden, none of the strategy behind playcalling matters because ratings and predetermined animation sequences dictate everything - to the extent that basically what you have is just a game full of triggered animation sequences with a couple of inconsequential coaching options thrown in. What people must remember here is that these are National Football League professional players. That means that NO players should be overly dominating and unable to be stopped at all. For instance, if a user has coached his player properly, and has placed them in the position to shut a play down, then the tackle should be made on the ball carrier and the play should be shut down..period..But instead, in madden, it doesnt matter how you coach your team, or what position you put your players in to break up a play, if the cpu has been programmed to use the "break tackle" animation or the "ball carrier fall forward while other players tumbleweed and roll around uselessly around the ball carrier" animation, then at that point coaching is irrelevant. If sloppy, unclean, automated mocap animation (tumble weeding, body morphing, poor collision detection, force fields, one man singular hit tackles etc.) is going to dictate the outcome of gameplay rather than body mechanics, body position, and physics, then there is really is no point in playing the game at all. You can just sim the game, and the outcome will be the same. To give credit where credit is due: Did EA add a few "new gameplay features" as they do every year? sure, but other than the sideline catches *which admittedly look and feel incredible*, other than that, every other new gameplay element is either poorly integrated, or poorly executed to begin with...thats my opinion after buying the game and experiencing its gameplay.

I agree with you on a few points and disagree with a few others. The points I agree with is the locomotion greatly affected the defense and Ian admitted it did. I've seen it in replays as well. I also agree with the game planning vs ratings matter that you brought up.

I disagree with you not mentioning how well run blocking is this year besides the sideline catches. This was a big overhaul from years past and it shows. WR's are now blocking downfield. Also, sliders do help minimize the breaking tackle phenom that they are looking to patch. Lowering break tackles and increasing the tackle sliders helps minimize the break tackle situation.(doesn't fix it entirely) Of course, this doesn't help people who play online only or don't want to fiddle with sliders out of the box.

[rooney8]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phil_Frazier_EA

'When' we decide to announce a detail does not change the fact that we did announce this fact well in advance (2 months) of product release. I would say that my statement is true. We announced it just before E3 simply because we felt like our community was expecting a Franchise announcement @ E3. The news would not have been out of the bag @ E3 because we had our game modes locked out in that particular build. The more likely scenerio is that the information would have been out there in late July when we start sending out review code. We don't typically announce 'bad stuff' at all during our PR calendar and only chose to do this after reading the forums. It was clear people were expecting changes that we were not going to deliver on. It's really as simple as that. Phil

I too figured it was to time the bad PR rather than be honest. Thanks for the honesty it is appreciated.