Robert Flores Goes One-On-One With EA Sports Madden NFL 11 Game Designers (ESPN)

[harlequin782]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I agree with you on a few points and disagree with a few others. The points I agree with is the locomotion greatly affected the defense and Ian admitted it did. I've seen it in replays as well. I also agree with the game planning vs ratings matter that you brought up. I disagree with you not mentioning how well run blocking is this year besides the sideline catches. This was a big overhaul from years past and it shows. WR's are now blocking downfield. Also, sliders do help minimize the breaking tackle phenom that they are looking to patch. Lowering break tackles and increasing the tackle sliders helps minimize the break tackle situation.(doesn't fix it entirely) Of course, this doesn't help people who play online only or don't want to fiddle with sliders out of the box.

But thats just it man...Your idea works well in theory, and it probably works well for many people in practice..but the way I think of it is: This is a "next gen" football title...If I wanted to build the automated logistics of my own game, I'd just buy a literal simulation game with nothing more than x's and O's darting across the field... but this is supposed to be a game on consoles that have everything from motion sensing technology (why isnt this being used more?), to RAM that is specifically dedicated to graphics. And the real problem, as I see it, is that the slider sets dont represent EA Tib's hallmark slogan, which is that: if its in the game, its in the game or - if you see it on sundays, you'll see it in the game.. Instead, the solution to the problems that Im hearing is that, "if its in the game, it SHOULD BE in the game, but if it isnt, you can try to put it in the game yourself by adjusting your sliders."

I think madden is doing themselves an injustice by trying to target too broad of an audience. What they've got to realize is that they are compromising true authentic football, in the name of appeasement for a few casual weekend players who MIGHT play one season in Franchise mode or lollygag around with virtual trainer or something. But those are people who most likely dont even know real football anyway. People who do know and appreciate true football need an accurate representation of the sport from the only franchise that has the NFL license. I mean, here's my deal: you (the proverbial you, not literally you) either want to make consumers satisfied or you dont..you either want to make a good NFL football game or you dont. If you dont want to make a good football game or if you dont care about making a good NFL football game, then you can focus on making as many consumers satisfied as humanly possible. You can target the casual gamer audience, the female gamers, the pet gamers, the children gamers or whoever else. But if you truly want to satisfy the customers who enjoy the NFL, and seek to get an NFL likeness from video gameplay, then as the ONLY NFL LICENSED FOOTBALL VIDEO GAME some things need to be done to ensure that those people who DO know football, and who CAN see the differences that coaching and strategy make, will enjoy the game you put out..and that the game they play wont just be an automated version dictated by ratings and triggered animations. Ill openly state that, on All pro, the game can be pretty enjoyable, even with its flaws..but All Madden simply takes control from the user/coach and renders body mechanics, body/player positioning, or physics obsolete. And then All Madden makes outcomes completely contingent on the cpu's statistical probability algorithms based on player ratings. I just feel that that is an oversimplification of professional football and that there should be more to professional football than that.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by harlequin782

But thats just it man...Your idea works well in theory, and it probably works well for many people in practice..but the way I think of it is: This is a "next gen" football title...If I wanted to build the automated logistics of my own game, I'd just buy a literal simulation game with nothing more than x's and O's darting across the field... but this is supposed to be a game on consoles that have everything from motion sensing technology (why isnt this being used more?), to RAM that is specifically dedicated to graphics. And the real problem, as I see it, is that the slider sets dont represent EA Tib's hallmark slogan, which is that: if its in the game, its in the game or - if you see it on sundays, you'll see it in the game.. Instead, the solution to the problems that Im hearing is that, "if its in the game, it SHOULD BE in the game, but if it isnt, you can try to put it in the game yourself by adjusting your sliders." I think madden is doing themselves an injustice by trying to target too broad of an audience. What they've got to realize is that they are compromising true authentic football, in the name of appeasement for a few casual weekend players who MIGHT play one season in Franchise mode or lollygag around with virtual trainer or something. But those are people who most likely dont even know real football anyway. People who do know and appreciate true football need an accurate representation of the sport from the only franchise that has the NFL license. I mean, here's my deal: you (the proverbial you, not literally you) either want to make consumers satisfied or you dont..you either want to make a good NFL football game or you dont. If you dont want to make a good football game of if you dont care about making a good NFL football game, then you can focus on making as many consumers satisfied as humanly possible. You can target the casual gamer audience, the female gamers, the pet gamers, the children gamers or whoever else. But if you truly want to satisfy the customers who enjoy the NFL, and seek to get an NFL likeness from video gameplay, then as the ONLY NFL LICENSED FOOTBALL VIDEO GAME some things need to be done to ensure that those people who DO know football, and who CAN see the differences that coaching and strategy make, will enjoy the game you put out..and that the game they play wont just be an automated version dictated by ratings and triggered animations. Ill openly state that, on All pro, the game can be pretty enjoyable, even with its flaws..but All Madden simply takes control from the user/coach and renders body mechanics, body/player positioning, or physics obsolete. And then All Madden makes outcomes completely contingent on the cpu's statistical probability algorithms based on player ratings. I just feel that that is an oversimplification of professional football and that there should be more to professional football than that.

Addressing your first paragraph, there isn't a sports game on LG or NG(whatever the catch phrase is) that I haven't tinkered with sliders. I want the game to be as close as to the players real life stats as I possibly can. Without sliders, I can't accomplish that. So, my thing is, for me, it works in theory and practice.

I agree pretty much with your second paragraph. I just will never try All-Everything as I know it gives the CPU jumps in overall ability.

In closing, I feel the direction of Madden is headed in a more sim direction vs the 07-09. I felt like those were tourney track meets.

[harlequin782]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I disagree with you not mentioning how well run blocking is this year besides the sideline catches. This was a big overhaul from years past and it shows. WR's are now blocking downfield.

I wanted to address this in particular since you mentioned it. I agree with you to some extent. On All Pro, the running game feels very close to perfect...blocking assignments are adhered to, runningbacks hit the hole pretty well, the user controls are pretty tight etc. On all pro, the running game is pretty rewarding. HOWEVER, on all madden this simply isnt the case...I can upload footage to any given media sharing website to show what Im speaking of. I have LITERALLY had my OT not lay a single finger on the D-end. My offensive tackle literally, didnt even try...Im not saying that he just didnt block well..Im saying he actually stood up out of his stance once the ball was snapped, and just watched the defender blow by him to massacre my running back...the OT just didnt even bother...AND it happens consistently..AND he's the best offensive lineman on my team.

This is inexcusable to me. And it came to my attention because I had noticed that I couldnt even get out of the backfield with my running backs who are actually speed backs. So I was trying to see who was blowing their blocking assignments or why we were getting demolished up front. I ran back the replay, and INEVITABLY, in addition to the rest of my o-line just getting put on roller skates and obliterated, one or two o-lineman will simply not even bother. Just wont even attempt to block the defensive player.

Im not going to try to justify this poor programming and oversight in the production pipeline with some drawn out explanation about the production cycle or whatever else the excuse of the day is.. Perhaps I could adjust sliders, or perhaps I could play on All pro all the time. But the fact of the matter is that this sort of thing shouldnt even be happening in an NFL licensed football game....it doesnt even look right on screen.

[djordan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phil_Frazier_EA

You state this as though it is a fact. Where's your data to back up this allegation? I know for certain this isn't true but would take another look at our priorities if you had data to back this up. Or the likely scenerio is that you are being sarcastic. You need to put a little smiley at the end of your post if you are going to go that route. Phil

But we as a community state to the developers FACTS that certain features are still missing after 5 YEARS!!! We mention FACTS such as why there isn't DB shade inside or outside when there was on PS2 version. We mention FACTS such as how Halftime show wasn't improved even though we were told it was going to be for Madden 11.FACTS such as how we still have poor player interaction and gang tackles. We mention facts every year and nothing is done!!!

I know plenty of people feel the same way as me.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by harlequin782

I wanted to address this in particular since you mentioned it. I agree with you to some extent. On All Pro, the running game feels very close to perfect...blocking assignments are adhered to, runningbacks hit the hole pretty well, the user controls are pretty tight etc. On all pro, the running game is pretty rewarding. HOWEVER, on all madden this simply isnt the case...I can upload footage to any given media sharing website to show what Im speaking of. I have LITERALLY had my OT not lay a single finger on the D-end. My offensive tackle literally, didnt even try...Im not saying that he just didnt block well..Im saying he actually stood up out of his stance once the ball was snapped, and just watched the defender blow by him to massacre my running back...the OT just didnt even bother...AND it happens consistently..AND he's the best offensive lineman on my team. This is inexcusable to me. And it came to my attention because I had noticed that I couldnt even get out of the backfield with my running backs who are actually speed backs. So I was trying to see who was blowing their blocking assignments or why we were getting demolished up front. I ran back the replay, and INEVITABLY, in addition to the rest of my o-line just getting put on roller skates and obliterated, one or two o-lineman will simply not even bother. Just wont even attempt to block the defensive player. Im not going to try to justify this poor programming and oversight in the production pipeline with some drawn out explanation about the production cycle or whatever else the excuse of the day is.. Perhaps I could adjust sliders, or perhaps I could play on All pro all the time. But the fact of the matter is that this sort of thing shouldnt even be happening in an NFL licensed football game....it doesnt even look right on screen.

Have you played on ALL-Madden on previous Maddens?

I won't touch that level with a 10 ft pole.

Madden is tuned to play close to the NFL on ALL Pro. Experienced users who want a challenge will play on All-Madden.

It's been know that ALL-Madden ratings are in favor of the CPU. Like you said, if you want things on equal footing on All-Madden, then you adjust your sliders up or the All-Madden sliders down.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by djordan

But we as a community state to you developers FACTS that certain features are still missing after 5 YEARS!!! We mention FACTS such as why there isn't DB shade inside or outside when there was on PS2 version. We mention FACTS such as how Halftime show wasn't improved even though we were told it was going to be for Madden 11. We mention facts every year and nothing is done!!! I know alot of people feel the same way as me.

Here is another fact. Someone begged and pleaded to get hand towels in the game and they did for Madden 10.

[djordan]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Here is another fact. Someone begged and pleaded to get hand towels in the game and they did for Madden 10.

LOL. I was begging since Madden 2004 man

[harlequin782]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Addressing your first paragraph, there isn't a sports game on LG or NG(whatever the catch phrase is) that I haven't tinkered with sliders. I want the game to be as close as to the players real life stats as I possibly can. Without sliders, I can't accomplish that. So, my thing is, for me, it works in theory and practice. In closing, I feel the direction of Madden is headed in a more sim direction vs the 07-09. I felt like those were tourney track meets.

I understand that and I can accept that..however, the distinction to me is that the NFL is an authoritative source for what its gameplay should be. And it is baffling to me why a game with the NFL license doesnt make better use of the references it has at its disposal in the NFL brand. They SHOULD have direct exposure to stats and resources that the NFL provides. And those should be accurately incorporated with proper physics within the gameplay. But my problem with adjusting sliders is that I feel like im inputting my own interpretation of what I want to see as gameplay outcomes - instead of playing the game with statistics that are, on balance, an accurate default representation of professional football; and then allowing my coaching decisions and hopefully real time physics to dictate the results. But the latter becomes obsolete if the former overrides everything else to begin with.

At any rate, I feel what you're saying and Im glad you're happy with the game. Ive concluded that the franchise has pretty much lost me as a long time supporter. Although the body mechanics in 09 werent very realistic either, it was fun imo...Madden 2011 just isnt even fun to me.