Madden NFL 11 News Post

Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

01:22 PM - August 20, 2010 by RaychelSnr

CNBC has the story on Madden's weak sales numbers and it's impact on the industry as a whole. Sounds like a blog coming from yours truly soon.

Quote:


	Just one week after its flagship franchise hit the streets, EA is already seeing retailers dramatically discount this year�s installment of �Madden NFL�. Amazon, Wal Mart, and GameStop have all dropped the price from $60 to $50. One possible way to interpret that is the 2010 version of the game hasn�t been selling at the same pace as the 2009 version (which, incidentally, failed to match the 2008 numbers). That�s troubling, since EA relies heavily on Madden for up to 10 percent of its annual revenues. Admittedly, there were concerns about this year�s game prior to its launch. Pre-orders were flat and Colin Sebastian, an analyst with Lazard Capital Markets, noted that the 2010 installment was �a �show-me� story � People who are tired of what �Madden� has become are saying �I know some of my fiends are going to pick it up and I�ll see what they have to say first.'�

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Member Comments

# 221 Rules @ 08/22/10 08:29 PM

It is very simple but EA is not getting the message. You cannot keep rehashing the same game over and over removing great features and replacing them with gimmicks!

Some features that has not been done and would require WORK that they would not be willing to do:

1) Individual sounds, music, commentary for each stadium.
2) Changing weather! Rain to snow, off, on, light to heavy.
3) Better halftime shows that can be turned off for the arcade players.
4) The ability to play defense again which has basically been removed for more offense.
5) New kicking system that is not 100% like it has been for years.

Notice many of these ideas has to do with presentation and atmosphere. EA did very little this year with Madden and you are seeing it reflect in their sales. Why do you think Ian has avoided this forum, cause even he knew it was not going to be pretty.

# 222 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDRZA


	Suction blocking wasn't an issue with 2K football, or NFL Gameday. Games created on lesser hardware. You are preaching to the choir about physics, because Madden has been in dire need of more realistic player interaction. 2 player scripted animations that "play out" are old. You can claim there are "far less" occurances, yet they still remain, same as they did during the PS2 era. Mirroring routes absolutely existed in PS2 era Madden's, maybey you didn't pay enough attention. I played a guy at a tournament who was considered a very good player. He was up 7-3 at halftime. I ran mostly man cover 2 with bump coverage. In the second half, he absolutley destroyed me while i was running the same defense. I couldn't figure out why his WR was WIDE open in man coverage. He didn't motion or anything. After the game i asked him what he was doing. He was running a sluugo, or an out and up, and even after the WR released from the bump, the DB still ran the slant in, or the out part of the route while the WR was already at LEAST 5 yds up the field. His exact words were "The DB mirrors the route so the WR gets serious seperation on the double move after the bump". Nano blitzes were in 2K football, but to a much lesser extent. Madden football back on the PS2 era was where that phrase was coined. Nano blitzing and that term were created on Madden during last gen. As far as slider and 2K, i was always more of a Madden guy but did play some 2K. I play competitvely ONLY either, only head to head either offline or online. 2K5 played pretty solid without slider adjustments. In Madden they don't apply to me or the hundreds of thousands of players who play online. beating up on the CPU and its weak AI are not my idea of fun. I been playing Madden faithfully every single last year from 1989. I know this game inside out. This game hasn't changed other than tuning and tweaks, features added/removed, and better graphics. Underneath the fluff, its been the same game year in and year out for quite a while now.

I still play Madden 08 on the PC, which is based on the last gen version of the hardware, and the dbs do not run routes before the receivers like they do in the current incarnations of the game. What is happening now is primarily because the wr route running animations were changed to make their feet chop more at the point of the cut, while the dbs footwork and locomotion have remained basically the same. This causes the db to move faster than the wr, and therefore run the route ahead of the wr. That did not happen in last gen Madden/NCAA (especially not in the 2001 Madden/2002 NCAA, which were notorious for bad db AI play). It's certainly possible that we misunderstand each other on this point, but I'm specifically talking about that issue. If that's not what you are talking about, then I apologize.

As to the rest of your points, there are certainly some things that are going to carry over. The same coders basically did the work on the last gen and next gen versions of the game, and that means that they mostly used the same techniques to achieve certain ends. However, the game was overhauled pretty much in its entirety for the next gen systems. That's why those games played faster and that's why the runners had less weight and momentum, and were able to pretty much turn on a dime.

I feel for online guys, I really do. I used to play online a lot up until the last year or 2 (and went to a ton of tournaments), but stopped as the game just stopped being fun. Now that I primarily play against the CPU with slider adjustments, it's fun again.

I don't know what to say to you. There was some talk of maybe in the future having the community vote on the best slider edits, and these would then be built into some of the lobbies in the game, and really that's probably the best you can hope for.

# 223 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rangerrick012


	@ price33 Look not everyone thinks Madden is great and NBA 2K sucks, just because you see it that way and others don't doesn't mean you are the only one right and everyone else is wrong. Madden has its flaws as does 2K, but the flaws in Madden are greater to some, than those in 2K. People complain about 2K just as they do w/ Madden, maybe you don't see it as much, but it happens. Just like you say sliders help Madden, they help NBA 2K as well. In any case, I don't think it's right how you continue to take cheap shots at 2K in order to pump up Madden when others don't see it the way you do. What do you mean by people letting it get away anyways? From what I've seen reviewers still give Madden high scores every year, it still sells more than any other sports game. Of course the community is going to be harsher, but the harshness probably comes from 2 factors that cannot be ignored - 1. Ea's purchase of the license definitely opened up Madden to harsher criticism and backlash. 2K avoids this to a degree b/c people don't like it, they can play Live. Madden is the only yearly NFL game in town. If you think that's not a factor you're naive IMO. 2. Disconnect between the community and the devs. W/ 2k there at least seems to be a concerted effort to listen to the community's needs and try to implement new features. Madden throws in gameplan, gameflow, and strat pad really without the community asking for or demanding these features. This leaves fans jaded and makes people wonder what the direction of the game really is.

I've bought every NBA 2K game from basically the beginning of the series on Dreamcast. Trust me, I'm not an NBA 2K basher in the least. I love that series. However, there are many posters here who either don't play other games enough or hold them to different standards, because a lot of the complaints I have and see about that game are dismissed here when people try to point at NBA 2K as the gold standard for what a sports game should be, and how Madden should try to emulate that game as closely as possible. It's hypocritical.

Oh trust me, I know why this site is filled with so many people who take drive by pot shots at everything EA. I've been here long enough to see the wars between the sides, and the resentment and hatred build up ever since the exclusivity agreement.

As to developer interaction, we had plenty of Madden developers here who were chased away by people who would rather call them idiots and morons than to offer helpful suggestions as to what the community wants. They still definitely listen though, as evidenced by the OS shout outs from Russ on NCAA and the constant interaction Ian Cummings has with fans on twitter.

I will ask you to further explain what the bolded sentence means. I looked back in my posts in this thread, and I'm not sure what you are referencing.

# 224 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDRZA


	Im hoping for a complete reboot, and an overall better, smarter, more realistic game soup to nuts. Realistic physics and player interaction would be nice. Since none of that will happen this year, im willing to settle (Madden has forced many of us to have to settle instead of being floored) for much improved pass coverage(man and zone) and much less broken tackles especially from WR's. If they can balance the game between offense and defense ill be alot more content and can possible enjoy the game at least through the football season. (Miss the days of playing Madden all year round).

Like I said, it's unfortunate that you don't want to be a "franchise freak" (or that they don't at least allow you to edit sliders in online franchise), because that stuff is easily fixable today with sliders. Oh well.

# 225 Rules @ 08/22/10 08:56 PM

I tokk the year off from EA sports games with the exception of FIFA 10 and Madden 10. Well I just played FIFA 10 again the other day and well Madden 10 is under a cloud of dust as it has not been touched after just 3 games!

Though I have been reading how NCAA Football 11 is a huge improvement, I decided to pass again this year as the demo still feels the same ol' same ol' in terms of atmosphere and presentation for the last 10 years!!!!! Even the commentary is still the same. How many times can you continue to charge $60 full price for a game that has the same commentary, cut scenes, crowd noise, overlays, ect as the last several years????

This year I will be picking up FIFA 11, already preordered NHL 11, debating NBA Elite as I need to see more including the demo. Madden 11 is not worth even the discounted price tag of $49.99.

# 226 rangerrick012 @ 08/22/10 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrprice33


	I've bought every NBA 2K game from basically the beginning of the series on Dreamcast. Trust me, I'm not an NBA 2K basher in the least. I love that series. However, there are many posters here who either don't play other games enough or hold them to different standards, because a lot of the complaints I have and see about that game are dismissed here when people try to point at NBA 2K as the gold standard for what a sports game should be, and how Madden should try to emulate that game as closely as possible. It's hypocritical. Oh trust me, I know why this site is filled with so many people who take drive by pot shots at everything EA. I've been here long enough to see the wars between the sides, and the resentment and hatred build up ever since the exclusivity agreement. As to developer interaction, we had plenty of Madden developers here who were chased away by people who would rather call them idiots and morons than to offer helpful suggestions as to what the community wants. They still definitely listen though, as evidenced by the OS shout outs from Russ on NCAA and the constant interaction Ian Cummings has with fans on twitter. I will ask you to further explain what the bolded sentence means. I looked back in my posts in this thread, and I'm not sure what you are referencing.

I was referring to your statement of 2K seemingly getting away with having the same flaws Madden has. You seem to think people don't criticize 2K's (without slider adjustments) paint heavy game, sliding on court, control issues, these are all things that are brought up about 2K10. It's not like people think 2K is perfect, which is the picture you seem to be trying to paint.

But there are areas where NBA2K is ahead of Madden. The presentation and commentary for example is some of the best ever in a sports game. That's one of the areas where Madden continues to be lacking. Franchise and career modes in 2k10 are also superb.

You seem to think people don't criticize 2K for these gameplay issues and only take shots at Madden. That's where I disagree with you. And yes Madden compared to FIFA/2K/NHL is lacking in these critical areas - franchise/career mode and presentation. These are critical areas to consumers and the reason why some are so hard on Madden.

# 227 bms715 @ 08/22/10 10:03 PM

Weak Madden sales may signal a hit to the gaming industry, but I believe that it is more a result of a weak game that has not seen enough improvement to make people buy it. Unfortunately for us, the gamers, this is probably the result of: a) the difficulty/cost of making a good game for next-gen systems and b) the fact that developers only have a year to make/improve the game...In my opinion, I definitely wouldn't hate if Madden took a year off to completely re-create the game from the ground up...Would you?

# 228 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 11:06 PM

I don't think we'll see real physics in madden until 2013 at the earliest. I think they're going to use elite and nhl as guinea pigs and let the tech have a year under it's belt before trying to port it to madden. Ideally we'd have blown out franchise and presentation in 12 and rtp in 13.

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

# 229 bkrich83 @ 08/22/10 11:08 PM

According to VGCHARTZ.

Week 1 Madden 11 Sales.

Xbox360 - 542,803
PS3- 445,648

Last years #'s for week 1.

Week 1 Madden 10 Sales.

Xbox 360- 575,624
PS3- 363,256

Slightly down on the Xbox, and significantly up on the PS3. Overall #'s are up. Not sure how the sales are poor. Over a million copies first week.

# 230 ZoneBlitz @ 08/22/10 11:32 PM

What Madden sales are telling the gaming industry is that we want better games. Madden in particular has morphed into a videogame that uses football as a mere premise or context - and not much else. There is no depth and EA has provided a textbook example of why competition in football gaming is sorely needed.

# 231 bms715 @ 08/22/10 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZoneBlitz


	What Madden sales are telling the gaming industry is that we want better games. Madden in particular has morphed into a videogame that uses football as a mere premise or context - and not much else. There is no depth and EA has provided a textbook example of why competition in football gaming is sorely needed.

Exactly...If I was gonna get excited about any news regarding the upcoming football games, it would be that the exclusivity agreement is GOING AWAY...because it's gonna take a lot more than a year to fix Madden

# 232 roadman @ 08/22/10 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bms715


	Exactly...If I was gonna get excited about any news regarding the upcoming football games, it would be that the exclusivity agreement is GOING AWAY...because it's gonna take a lot more than a year to fix Madden

That's between the NFL and EA.

# 233 kingcrumb @ 08/23/10 08:11 AM

I have ask about in game saves and AI that can run the ball for over 12 years. I had to trade Madden 11 in I was able to average over 60 points and I lost. This is the worst Madden IMO in years. Where do they come up with this stuff?

# 234 bms715 @ 08/23/10 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	That's between the NFL and EA.

I know that, I'm just saying that as long as EA is the only one making an NFL game, there will still be holes in the game

# 235 bms715 @ 08/23/10 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haze56


	Madden 08 was the most fun I've had playing a next gen football game until NCAA Football 11. Madden 09 was awful, Madden 10 was average, and I didn't even bother buying Madden 11 because tons of people have said it's a step down from Madden 10. Like me a lot of people did not buy Madden 11 because they felt like it had not improved enough to worth buying. I'm a firm believer in making a game every 2 years because it's too hard to make a huge improvement in one year and still have a good game. Games like Halo and Call of Duty take 2 or more years to send out a new game and they really spend time working out bugs and glitches. Madden has a chance to be a good game, but they seem to rush these games out and just seem to half *** them. It's as if I'm making a chocolate chip cookie and I'm making a new one every year. I make tons of them and get feedback from the buyers. They tell me to add and subtract different ingredients from the batter, but instead I make the chocolate chips bigger and call it a new cookie.

I couldn't agree more about the game every two years thing

# 236 roadman @ 08/23/10 09:11 AM

I wouldn't mind the game every two years either, but two things prevent that from happening.

1. The NFL license. The license demands a game from EA once every year.

2. As long as I can remember, Madden has come out on a yearly basis. They won't stop their cash cow as stockholders would drop them in a minute.

It's a business.

# 237 mrprice33 @ 08/23/10 09:13 AM

Yeah like I said they would have to double their current sales to make up the difference and I don't see that happening.

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

# 238 Only1LT @ 08/23/10 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APBamaMan


	Madden 11 sales for the week: 360: 554,617 PS3: 459,688 Wii: 92,313 PS2: 62,011 PSP: 42,212 Total: 1,210,841 Looks like you would have won as far as first week sales, but are you speaking in terms of overall sales? Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly.php?date=40405�=World&date=40405&console=&maker=EA+Sports

Overall sales. I aint scurred lol.

# 239 Only1LT @ 08/23/10 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrprice33


	Let's just go down the list, shall we? Suction blocking and 2 man animations are a product of using motion captured animations in the game. Many other games deemed superior (nba 2k, for one) also have these problems. Until these games go full physics, which only really became plausible a couple of years ago, these issues will remain. That being said, suction blocking is far more rare in 10/11 than in any other version of the game. Dbs mirroring routes didn't happen until 09 at the earliest. It was not a problem in the last gen versions of the game. Nano blitzes are a problem that have plagued pretty much every football game ever made. Offensive line ai is probably one of the most difficult things to program in all of gaming, especially when you give the user the ability to hot route defenders and move guys around to trick the ai. And using sliders takes care of the issues defensively (the same way they fixed 2k5s awful pass coverage). Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

Psychic DBs and Synchronized Route Running, was absolutely, unequivocally on last gen. Not even a maybe.

# 240 qcsavagelife25 @ 08/23/10 10:18 AM

Im too excited to hear this, didnt buy madden cause it was pretty sh!tty this year even though i knew it wouldnt make any difference on sales BUT other ppl felt the same.....thats what it is

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