Madden NFL 11 News Post

Weak Madden Sales Signaling Trouble for Game Industry

01:22 PM - August 20, 2010 by RaychelSnr

CNBC has the story on Madden's weak sales numbers and it's impact on the industry as a whole. Sounds like a blog coming from yours truly soon.

Quote:


	Just one week after its flagship franchise hit the streets, EA is already seeing retailers dramatically discount this year�s installment of �Madden NFL�. Amazon, Wal Mart, and GameStop have all dropped the price from $60 to $50. One possible way to interpret that is the 2010 version of the game hasn�t been selling at the same pace as the 2009 version (which, incidentally, failed to match the 2008 numbers). That�s troubling, since EA relies heavily on Madden for up to 10 percent of its annual revenues. Admittedly, there were concerns about this year�s game prior to its launch. Pre-orders were flat and Colin Sebastian, an analyst with Lazard Capital Markets, noted that the 2010 installment was �a �show-me� story � People who are tired of what �Madden� has become are saying �I know some of my fiends are going to pick it up and I�ll see what they have to say first.'�

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Member Comments

# 201 rooney8 @ 08/22/10 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrprice33


	Keep in mind that there were about twice as many ps2s and xboxes in 2005 than there are 360s and ps3s in 2010. They are capturing roughly the same percentage of gamers in 2010 as they did in 2005. I did the math in another thread we had about this, and I can dig it up if you'd like the raw numbers.

I know the numbers but they can be misleading. 140m+ Ps2 sold but I was on my second and I know people who were on their 3rd. Not saying this gen has caught last gen but the gap isn't as big as the numbers say. Fifa sold 4.5m on Ps2 and xbox in 2005 and 6m in 2010 yet it still is battling it's competition.

# 202 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney8


	I know the numbers but they can be misleading. 140m+ Ps2 sold but I was on my second and I know people who were on their 3rd. Not saying this gen has caught last gen but the gap isn't as big as the numbers say. Fifa sold 4.5m on Ps2 and xbox in 2005 and 6m in 2010 yet it still is battling it's competition.

Couldn't you say the same thing about 360s? I've purchased 4 of them myself.

As to fifa i think it's safe to say that the explosion in popularity of soccer, particularly in the us has contributed to the continued increase in sales.

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# 203 TheWatcher @ 08/22/10 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney8


	Slow start shows a loss in hardcore fans.

It's not quite that simple. It's impossible to make that statement definitively for one group especially this early without seeing the numbers broken down categorically (i.e. defined targets). The quarterly and final will speak more to that than the one-week statistic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney8


	If casuals really do like this game they should recover. I still think less than 4m on 360 and Ps3.

I'd be shocked if it did less than 4 million, but if that does happen heads will roll over there and you'll probably see some faces disappear, it's just a fact of life in business. But the slump with 10 early was much bigger than the hole they're in now with 11, and they pulled out all the stops promotionally to get it back up. When it was all said and done, Madden 10 outsold Madden 09, I can see that happening again.

The only thing relevant are the 3 year totals taken as a whole, because it shows that the overall interest be it hardcore or casual for this game is declining each year and they're needing emergency marketing efforts to get sales back on track (this is something they've actually stated themselves). I feel a big problem is that Tiburon's answer to it in the game isn't working... well, we can all see it's not working. At some point, extended marketing efforts may stop working to save it. For their sake, it better not be this year after what happened last season to reset the course. The powers-that-be are running out of patience based on their public releases in regards to how the sales have been shaping up and how they've had to regain ground.

# 204 kjcheezhead @ 08/22/10 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrprice33


	So because the most realistic elements of this game are offensive, that lessens their import in determining whether or not it's a realistic, hardcore game? Where's the line of demarcation? Is it only 3-4 defense, or is the line somewhere else? It seems to me that the line keeps moving. Run blocking and lineplay used to be a huge sore spot for people and what allegedly held the game back from being as realistic as possible. Now that the run blocking is near perfect and the pass blocking much improved, the target is suddenly the defense. What happens when the 3-4 operates properly? Are we going to move to the kicking game next? And what about after that? I don't see how an honest person could look at the game in 2007-08 and 2010-11 and not say that 10 and 11 show a clear change in priorities from the arcadey tournament player to the much more realistic, simulation game. If you don't like where the series is headed on the field, I'm not sure what to say to you. Certainly the elements that surround the on-field experience need to be improved (I'm not sure that anyone is disputing that) but on the field this is the best simulation Madden of the series by a wide margin, especially after slider adjustments.

I know not everyone will agree, but Madden 11 on the field play moved sideways imo. Run blocking, sideline catching improved no doubt. However pro-tak wasn't touched, broken tackles are much easier even for Darren Sproles types, Locomotion plays to the offenses advantage as well. A step forward for the offense, 2 steps back for the defense. Improving the play on one side of the field and not the other doesn't translate into sim improvements at all.

I didn't even mention how strategy pad slows defensive adjustments down or that ps2 madden had wr shading and individual bump and run that gave the defense some adjustments this game lacks.

I agree Madden 10 moved in the right direction, but Madden 11 took a wrong turn sometime after Ian and co. left the boards.

# 205 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWatcher


	It's not quite that simple. It's impossible to make that statement definitively for one group especially this early without seeing the numbers broken down categorically (i.e. defined targets). The quarterly and final will speak more to that than the one-week statistic. I'd be shocked if it did less than 4 million, but if that does happen heads will roll over there and you'll probably see some faces disappear, it's just a fact of life in business. But the slump with 10 early was much bigger than the hole they're in now with 11, and they pulled out all the stops promotionally to get it back up. When it was all said and done, Madden 10 outsold Madden 09, I can see that happening again. The only thing relevant are the 3 year totals taken as a whole, because it shows that the overall interest be it hardcore or casual for this game is declining each year and they're needing emergency marketing efforts to get sales back on track (this is something they've actually stated themselves). I feel a big problem is that Tiburon's answer to it in the game isn't working... well, we can all see it's not working. At some point, extended marketing efforts may stop working to save it. For their sake, it better not be this year after what happened last season to reset the course. The powers-that-be are running out of patience based on their public releases in regards to how the sales have been shaping up and how they've had to regain ground.

I just hope they don't make the mistake of thinking the popularity of 2008/2009 is an indicator that they should go back to that style of game.

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# 206 EmmittSmithx22x @ 08/22/10 05:12 PM

What they are doing...is obviously driving away fans of the game. Since they continue ewant to cater to people who don't play football games. They get people like us who play the game every year.

I boycotted Madden 08. and came close to boycotting this year. But if the game refuses to improve in ways that we have asked like they did this year. I will not buy Madden 12.

# 207 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDRZA


	If you read LBz's post about "everything has a complement" you would know what most of us are talking about. Yes, we all wanted better run blocking. So Tiburon gets run blocking right but as par usual, it's a bit overdone and there is no balance. That's why i always said about Tiburon and Madden, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Also, it's very short sighted to lump all tournament players as "arcadey". Don't go by what you have heard or seen on TV, that is NOT all tournament players. Lastly, "sliders" are A) a cop out by developers who can't balance gameplay on their own and B) are useless to people who play online and in online leagues/franchises.

Another anti-slider guy. Wtf is going on here?

As to tournament players being arcadey, I've been in tournaments; I know how those games are played. I've played online, I know how those games are played. Those gamers were being catered to in 07,08,09 and those were both the best selling and least sim games in the series. This is pretty much universally agreed upon.

And yes, I read lbz's post. You can't just up and expect these things to be perfect in a little over 2 years. Blocking was a priority, and it was fixed. The team acknowledges that there are still things that need to be done, but the point of the game going a more realistic route since 07/08/09 is pretty much inarguable, or so I thought.

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# 208 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metallicatz


	Sliders are not a "cop out". Go ask 100 random people about makes a "sim" football video game experience for them and you'll likely get 100 different answers. Sliders are there to let you adjust the game how YOU like it. For all the positive feedback the NHL series gets, it is extremely rare to find avid players who are not using a slider set. Also, it is just as in need of work in the franchise mode department as Madden is. And the NHl series is NOT "pick up and play". It has a significant learning curve.

Lies. Every other videogame past or present has been perfect right out of the box without sliders, patches, or house rules. Those are madden-specific problems.

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# 209 hotsizz1e03 @ 08/22/10 06:03 PM

for all you guys stating its the economy.. thats bull.. MAdden is straight trash since they came on the next gen platforms.. every year it got worse.. Madden dug its own grave.. Hardowork pays off, slacking produces no results.. Madden is feelin the wrath of the consumers.. Corporate greed is what got the whole world right now crippled.. from gaming, to music, to false advertisements.. Do corporates think us consumers are dumb?? Blinded intentionally, but not dumb.. we know when we are gettin played. We know when a game is full of it. Dont blame the economy. Economy has nothing to do with it.. ITs the worldwide corporate greed that got consumers opening there eyes.. so we scrutinize the game much more deeply and weigh the value of our money and see if madden is worth 60 buck.. not even 50.. IMO.. they should start from scratch. sell the game for 25+plus tax.. take your loss EA, and win our hearts over next year! Nuff said! peace

# 210 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 06:05 PM

Do the ign boards hotlink here or something?

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# 211 dxhowe2k @ 08/22/10 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYST2000


	I don't think EA will do anything differently. Ian asked them for a new engine when he first started and he was declined. As long as they can put in less money and get a ton out they won't make the game any better.

I never knew Ian asked for that. They'll listen now I hope.

# 212 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 06:46 PM

They've been developing this game on ps3 and 360 for 10 years? That's news to me.

Again, if you don't think this game has made significant leaps forward in realism since the 08/09 incarnations of the game, you're living in a fantasy land and are pretty much not worth debating with.

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# 213 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDRZA


	Yeah, and before consoles that were hooked up to the internet, and before sliders were ever put into games, developers were somehow more responsible for balancing game play without sliders, and were more responsible for quality control before they could patch games. Stop giving inadequacy built in excuses, its getting old.

Lol at games being balanced properly in the Genesis and ps1 era before sliders and patches. Now I've heard it all.

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# 214 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDRZA


	No, but they have been using the same code, you know, the stuff that drives the game under the hood? Suction blocking, 2 player scripted animations, DB's not actually covering a WR but instead mirroring the route(in man coverage), nano blitzes etc, etc, etc. All those things were problems on PS2, and hold true today. If you think this game was ever re built ground up, then i don't know what to tell you. If you call poor pass coverage across the board, over the top broken tackles, high scoring affairs a step toward realism, then you are not worth debating with either.

Let's just go down the list, shall we?

Suction blocking and 2 man animations are a product of using motion captured animations in the game. Many other games deemed superior (nba 2k, for one) also have these problems. Until these games go full physics, which only really became plausible a couple of years ago, these issues will remain. That being said, suction blocking is far more rare in 10/11 than in any other version of the game.

Dbs mirroring routes didn't happen until 09 at the earliest. It was not a problem in the last gen versions of the game.

Nano blitzes are a problem that have plagued pretty much every football game ever made. Offensive line ai is probably one of the most difficult things to program in all of gaming, especially when you give the user the ability to hot route defenders and move guys around to trick the ai.

And using sliders takes care of the issues defensively (the same way they fixed 2k5s awful pass coverage).

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# 215 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDRZA


	Never said they were perfect, but the developers were far more responsible with balancing and quality control. Now, they can ship the game anyway they want and patch it later. Isn't the internet great? Ship buggy software with no regard, and just patch it a month or two later.

Really? Is that why I still remember double flags from madden 97 or hb toss from the first quarterback club or one timers from the nhl series or the behind the back crossover from 2k2 or changing your stance to open and holding up+ left to hit homeruns in triple play gold for Genesis or bo Jackson in tecmo bowl or numerous other broken situations in sports games dating back to basically the atari 2600? Or the game glitches that forced people to mail copies of games back to the publishers in order to get new and corrected software?

Lionizing past generations for their quality and balance of games is laughable.

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# 216 xx19kilosoldier @ 08/22/10 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrprice33


	Really? Is that why I still remember double flags from madden 97 or hb toss from the first quarterback club or one timers from the nhl series or the behind the back crossover from 2k2 or changing your stance to open and holding up+ left to hit homeruns in triple play gold for Genesis or bo Jackson in tecmo bowl or numerous other broken situations in sports games dating back to basically the atari 2600? Or the game glitches that forced people to mail copies of games back to the publishers in order to get new and corrected software? Lionizing past generations for their quality and balance of games is laughable. Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using Tapatalk.

Please man. Patching cycles are built into development schedules now. SO yes, he has a point. Developers most def do take advantage of the ability to patch when developing games and most def use the paying community to final test their product while already reaping financial rewards from the product. Spare us all the deep thinker bit as well, for someone who is trying to be such an intellectually honest poster you sure "poo poo" all over others with differing opinions from your own.

Sent from my laptop, while sitting on my couch drinking a beer, and using my fingers.

# 217 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xx19kilosoldier


	Please man. Patching cycles are built into development schedules now. SO yes, he has a point. Developers most def do take advantage of the ability to patch when developing games and most def use the paying community to final test their product while already reaping financial rewards from the product. Spare us all the deep thinker bit as well, for someone who is trying to be such an intellectually honest poster you sure "poo poo" all over others with differing opinions from your own. Sent from my laptop, while sitting on my couch drinking a beer, and using my fingers.

It seemed to me his point was that games were better then because they didn't have patches or sliders, while ignoring the fact that users and developers had no recourse to fix any problems that arised (of which there were many). If that was his point it's easily countered, and if not then I wonder why it would be brought up in the first place.

I'm not disputing that patches are a given with just about every game, what I'm disputing is that somehow this is a bad thing. Look at backbreaker for why it's such a great thing for gamers.

And a big hardee har har at attacking a poster for using properly structured sentences with well-reasoned arguments. That's rich.

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# 218 rooney8 @ 08/22/10 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrprice


	Again, if you don't think this game has made significant leaps forward in realism since the 08/09 incarnations of the game, you're living in a fantasy land and are pretty much not worth debating with.

But 08/09 were so bad that I just can't give credit for improving on them. I was on Ian's and Phil's side at one time because they said everything I wanted to hear but Madden11 just reminds me of 08/09. They didn't add much this year yet still what they did add is poorly implemented. Gameflow/gameplanning needs alot of work, locomotion is good but not what it should be, commentary is the awful and well they did nail run blocking. The code for commentary is terrible so they are going to have to spend alot of time trying to fix and improve that where as if they just got it right this year they could move on to other areas of need. They do this despite being crippled themselves with all the bad code left by Ortiz era.

# 219 mrprice33 @ 08/22/10 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rooney8


	But 08/09 were so bad that I just can't give credit for improving on them. I was on Ian's and Phil's side at one time because they said everything I wanted to hear but Madden11 just reminds me of 08/09. They didn't add much this year yet still what they did add is poorly implemented. Gameflow/gameplanning needs alot of work, locomotion is good but not what it should be, commentary is the awful and well they did nail run blocking. The code for commentary is terrible so they are going to have to spend alot of time trying to fix and improve that where as if they just got it right this year they could move on to other areas of need. They do this despite being crippled themselves with all the bad code left by Ortiz era.

Considering Ian and Phil weren't the primary decision makers for the 08 and 09 games, I'll give them a pass for those, especially considering the rather dramatic shift that the games have taken towards a more realistic, less "gamey" approach. That is not to say that the game is all the way there, because it isn't. However, gameplay wise comparing this game to 08 and 09 is absurd. Yes, the things around the gameplay remain stuck in a last-gen rut (and I've conceded this many times), but on the field the game is better than ever.

# 220 rangerrick012 @ 08/22/10 08:26 PM

@ price33

Look not everyone thinks Madden is great and NBA 2K sucks, just because you see it that way and others don't doesn't mean you are the only one right and everyone else is wrong. Madden has its flaws as does 2K, but the flaws in Madden are greater to some, than those in 2K. People complain about 2K just as they do w/ Madden, maybe you don't see it as much, but it happens. Just like you say sliders help Madden, they help NBA 2K as well. In any case, I don't think it's right how you continue to take cheap shots at 2K in order to pump up Madden when others don't see it the way you do.

What do you mean by people letting it get away anyways? From what I've seen reviewers still give Madden high scores every year, it still sells more than any other sports game. Of course the community is going to be harsher, but the harshness probably comes from 2 factors that cannot be ignored - 1. Ea's purchase of the license definitely opened up Madden to harsher criticism and backlash. 2K avoids this to a degree b/c people don't like it, they can play Live. Madden is the only yearly NFL game in town. If you think that's not a factor you're naive IMO. 2. Disconnect between the community and the devs. W/ 2k there at least seems to be a concerted effort to listen to the community's needs and try to implement new features. Madden throws in gameplan, gameflow, and strat pad really without the community asking for or demanding these features. This leaves fans jaded and makes people wonder what the direction of the game really is.

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