01:22 PM - August 20, 2010 by RaychelSnr
CNBC has the story on Madden's weak sales numbers and it's impact on the industry as a whole. Sounds like a blog coming from yours truly soon.
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Madden NFL 11 News Post
01:22 PM - August 20, 2010 by RaychelSnrCNBC has the story on Madden's weak sales numbers and it's impact on the industry as a whole. Sounds like a blog coming from yours truly soon.
Madden NFL 11 Videos
Member Comments
# 181
rangerrick012 @ 08/22/10 03:50 AM
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And specifically concerning 2k and fifa "NBA 2K (which, much like Madden, has a huge bunch of legacy issues that the developers are either unwilling/unable to fix) or Fifa (which has only recently been even remotely playable, though it still doesn't come close to accurately portraying the sport)"?
I'll clarify further...NBA 2K's largest gameplay innovation this gen was signature shooting, and that's pretty much it. On the court the game doesn't play terribly differently from the last gen versions. It still has way too many PIP, isomotion (another last gen feature) is still awful, the shooting percentages are still too high, and the fast break vacillates between ludicrously difficult (2k8) and hilariously easy (2k10). Furthermore, the player interaction (like Madden's) is firmly stuck in 2005.
FIFA, while a ton of fun to play, doesn't even come close to accurately representing the game. It's still way too fast, through passes still work way too well, and there isn't nearly enough of a midfield game. The mechanics of playing that game have only recently changed (thanks to the locomotion upgrades and improvement in ball physics) but again it's not drastically different.
I wish I didn't have to explain myself when my point is seemingly clearly laid out in my post (never once did I say none of these games have advanced since last gen), but it was a necessity.
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# 184
gamemaster-2005 @ 08/22/10 10:45 AM
only thing they got right this year was the superbowl presentation. LOL you get to go to the white house.
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I'm not sure how M10 can be ruled more hardcore than M11. Run blocking (some of the best seen in football gaming period), catch debugging, locomotion although most agree it could be improved, gameplanning, etc: all of those improvements are for the hardcore gamer. Casuals don't care how the run blocking takes place -- they just want to make big plays with AP. They don't care if the pulling guard picks up the linebacker. Casuals can appreciate improved catching, but it probably didn't stick out as such a flaw in M10 as it did to us. Ditto locomotion and gameplanning...
I'm not saying that M11 wasn't geared towards being more accessible. But to suggest that the hardcore gamer had no place in the development of M11 is a fallacy.
Us hardcores can't have it both ways. Not you in particular, but it seems a lot of people here skipped out on M10 in spite of your assertion that it was a hardcore oriented game. In theory, what would be EA's motivation to continue in that direction if the 'hardcore' didn't support last year?
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Madden 11 sales for the week:
360: 554,617
PS3: 459,688
Wii: 92,313
PS2: 62,011
PSP: 42,212
Total: 1,210,841
Looks like you would have won as far as first week sales, but are you speaking in terms of overall sales?
Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly.php?date=40405®=World&date=40405&console=&maker=EA+Sports
^^^^^ As I pointed out already Madden 10 released on a friday so only had two days counted for it's first week sales. Madden 09 released on a Wednesday so it had four days of sales counted for release week and Madden 11 was released on a Tuesday so it has five days of sales counted. Yes the numbers are the same but M11 had three more days then M10 that's why the numbers are worse.
I did buy this game on release day as I have since I can remember,However this year I still have yet to actually play Madden because the game already has issues aside from the strategy pad idea.....This basically translates into this game not being a day one buy for me next year...
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Madden 09 was released on a Tuesday, not Wednesday according to their release date of August 12, 2008 (which was on a Tuesday).
Madden 11 and 09 were both released on Tuesdays and the numbers in sales between the two has dropped. Madden 10 with it being released on a Friday sold pretty well, considering it was counted for two days like you said. Conventional wisdom would tell you that Madden 11 would sell more than 10 due to it having more days of sales, but they didn't.
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Honestly, though I haven't spent much time with NHL, I wouldn't say it's an inaccessible hardcore game. It can be picked up and played. A few years ago, they apparently did what Madden is starting to do now: become more realistic, add a more simplistic control scheme, etc. I think NHL has set the precedent for what Madden will become (or at least attempt to become).
I've said the same things as you as far as the those failed casual-oriented sports games. But I think of Madden as a game that will always try to hit it in the middle.
# 193
kjcheezhead @ 08/22/10 02:36 PM
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If the 3-4 defense would have been improved, if the individual coverage assignments would have returned, etc. then I would say this game is for the hardcore. As it is, the game is built toward casuals and their love of offense/highlights and the user metacritic score reflects that.
# 194
TheWatcher @ 08/22/10 02:39 PM
EA's marketing is the best in the business, they've picked up ground many times before, and I'm confident they'll do it again.
Wake me up for the quarterly and then again in January and we may have something relevant to talk about.
Wake me up for the quarterly and then again in January and we may have something relevant to talk about.
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I don't think there is 5 million hardcore fans that purchase Madden. You still have little Johnny asking mommy and daddy for Madden at Xmas time.
Also, we are having our church festival this weekend. Three years ago it rained and barely 50 people showed up. Other than that, it's been well attended.
Not this year. We are lagging behind 20% less people at the gate vs last year. This means less profit as well.
The volunteers all agree it's has something to do with the economy. This is something that people have been coming to for the past 50 yrs. It's been the same festival for the last 20 yrs. People know what to expect and what is being delivered.
To say the economy isn't having an affect is being naive just as much as people saying it's not the game quality. We all know that could improve, but all of us should be cognizant of both areas.
Of course, I agree with The Watcher. Wake me in January.
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It seems to me that the line keeps moving. Run blocking and lineplay used to be a huge sore spot for people and what allegedly held the game back from being as realistic as possible. Now that the run blocking is near perfect and the pass blocking much improved, the target is suddenly the defense. What happens when the 3-4 operates properly? Are we going to move to the kicking game next? And what about after that?
I don't see how an honest person could look at the game in 2007-08 and 2010-11 and not say that 10 and 11 show a clear change in priorities from the arcadey tournament player to the much more realistic, simulation game. If you don't like where the series is headed on the field, I'm not sure what to say to you. Certainly the elements that surround the on-field experience need to be improved (I'm not sure that anyone is disputing that) but on the field this is the best simulation Madden of the series by a wide margin, especially after slider adjustments.
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I'm going to copy and paste a post that Adembroski posted a few days ago that I think everyone should take a good look at.
This is what Rgiles has been trying to say.
I want to look at the timeline here for a moment, because it's relevant.
2005 is generally considered by many to be the peak of Madden football. In that year, Ian Cummings and Phil Frazier were both designers, as they continued to be going forward. However, they were not decision makers.
In the leadup to Madden 2006, a "gameplay document" became available to MaddenMania members. It included a series of updates and fixes that were going into Madden 06. It was an honest attempt to reach out. However, the communication ceased as quickly and unexpectedly as it began. It was later revealed that it was Ian Cummings that was attempting to communicate with the sim community.
In 2006 or 2007, I'm not sure, David Ortiz became executive producer of Madden. The direction of Madden around this time went directly toward the tournament player. This was an open, conscious decision on the part of the Madden team. Phil Frazier and Ian Cummings were still designers, as was Ryan Burnsides (who I know was very unhappy with this approach).
In in the months leading up to the release of Madden NFL 2009, David Ortiz departed EA under mysterious circumstances. "Personal reasons" were sited, but rumors existed that there was some disagreements with management or other members of the team.
Madden NFL 09 was a David Ortiz effort. Madden NFL 10 was the first game that Ian and Phil were leaders on. In the time since they have taken over, we have seen the following changes to the "engine"...
* Game speed slowed to realistic levels and the ability to fine tune the game speed
* Slower, more realistic route running
* Locomotion, shifting the emphasis from twitch gaming to using blocks and setting up moves
* The most realistic run blocking system in football game history, by a long ways
* Increased presentation elements, including cut scenes and team specific storylines
* A working fatigue model, perhaps for the first time in a Madden game
* Pro tak, for better or worse, the first gang tackling system AT ALL since last gen
* An elimination of many over-the-top arcady animations, replaced by more down to Earth, realistic animations
Now, not all of these things were done well, but if you can't see the obvious change in direction, you're blind or ignoring it on purpose. A lot of people praise NHL and FIFA and ask "why can't Madden be like that?", forgetting entirely that it took 3 years for both of those games to get to that point... once the decision was made to make them sim. M11 is the 2nd Madden since that decision was made.
If you want a real test of Madden's progress, compare it to NHL 2008 and FIFA 07. Year 2 of the renovation. Look at NHL 09 and FIFA 08 to see where Madden 12 should be.
This is what Rgiles has been trying to say.
I want to look at the timeline here for a moment, because it's relevant.
2005 is generally considered by many to be the peak of Madden football. In that year, Ian Cummings and Phil Frazier were both designers, as they continued to be going forward. However, they were not decision makers.
In the leadup to Madden 2006, a "gameplay document" became available to MaddenMania members. It included a series of updates and fixes that were going into Madden 06. It was an honest attempt to reach out. However, the communication ceased as quickly and unexpectedly as it began. It was later revealed that it was Ian Cummings that was attempting to communicate with the sim community.
In 2006 or 2007, I'm not sure, David Ortiz became executive producer of Madden. The direction of Madden around this time went directly toward the tournament player. This was an open, conscious decision on the part of the Madden team. Phil Frazier and Ian Cummings were still designers, as was Ryan Burnsides (who I know was very unhappy with this approach).
In in the months leading up to the release of Madden NFL 2009, David Ortiz departed EA under mysterious circumstances. "Personal reasons" were sited, but rumors existed that there was some disagreements with management or other members of the team.
Madden NFL 09 was a David Ortiz effort. Madden NFL 10 was the first game that Ian and Phil were leaders on. In the time since they have taken over, we have seen the following changes to the "engine"...
* Game speed slowed to realistic levels and the ability to fine tune the game speed
* Slower, more realistic route running
* Locomotion, shifting the emphasis from twitch gaming to using blocks and setting up moves
* The most realistic run blocking system in football game history, by a long ways
* Increased presentation elements, including cut scenes and team specific storylines
* A working fatigue model, perhaps for the first time in a Madden game
* Pro tak, for better or worse, the first gang tackling system AT ALL since last gen
* An elimination of many over-the-top arcady animations, replaced by more down to Earth, realistic animations
Now, not all of these things were done well, but if you can't see the obvious change in direction, you're blind or ignoring it on purpose. A lot of people praise NHL and FIFA and ask "why can't Madden be like that?", forgetting entirely that it took 3 years for both of those games to get to that point... once the decision was made to make them sim. M11 is the 2nd Madden since that decision was made.
If you want a real test of Madden's progress, compare it to NHL 2008 and FIFA 07. Year 2 of the renovation. Look at NHL 09 and FIFA 08 to see where Madden 12 should be.
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