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REAL PHYSICS IN NBA ELITE 11
Jul 30, 2010

Hello everyone,

My name is Geoff Harrower and I’m a Software Engineer working on EA Sports NBA ELITE 11. I’m very happy to have the opportunity to write a blog about the Real Physics engine we’ve developed this year. The term “Real Physics” can mean different things to different people, so my hope is that this blog gives you a very clear understanding of what we’re doing, why we’re doing it and ultimately what impact Real Physics will have on the game.

The physics in NBA ELITE 11 impacts several different areas of the game in very different ways. I’ll go into detail on each one separately.

No More Two Player Animations

The number one reason we wanted to move towards Real Physics was to eliminate the two player animations that were commonplace in NBA LIVE.

One of my biggest frustrations in playing last year’s game was how often you lost control over your player due to these two player animations.

Some common scenarios in NBA LIVE 10 include:

-when driving the lane you could get pulled into a two player dribble bump animation or a two player jostle animation
-when playing defense against someone you could get pulled into a beat animation through no fault of your own
-when playing defense you could get pulled into a dunk on animation before you had a chance to attempt a block
-when going up for a rebound you could get pulled into a two player animation where the player who would get the ball was already decided before the animation started

Although these animations looked really good while they were playing back, they did not respect your momentum on the court, did not respect user input and had a negative impact on the gameplay experience.

Our solution to this problem in NBA ELITE 11 was to remove all two player animations from the game completely, and replace them with systems that allowed the user full control over their character and where a physical simulation determined the outcome on the court.

Physical Defense

As soon you remove the two player animations from NBA LIVE, there is a very glaring hole in defense which makes it completely ineffective. It became clear that the gameplay engine was relying on the these two player animations to prevent the ball carrier from getting to the rim. We realized that we’d have to start from scratch and rebuild the defensive systems in the game from the ground up.

In order to accomplish this, we built a one on one mode for testing purposes. The goal was to make playing defense fun and effective when you were one on one with your opponent without taking away control from the ball carrier.


The first stage was to take a look at our collision system. Like many sports games it was built to keep players from passing through each other, and encouraged players to pass by each other when in collision.

Under the hood, there were collision cylinders anchored at the players position. Because of the shape, if the dribbler collided with the defender he would just slide around him. This made it pretty much impossible to stop the dribbler.

Our solution for NBA ELITE 11 was to completely change the collision system and introduce something that would allow the defender to stop the dribbler by positioning himself between his opponent and the basket.


I’ve been using an analogy to describe the changes which involves ping pong balls and a pop can.

Take two ping pong balls and put them on a table. Now move them around as if they were two players in the game, one on offense and one on defense. Try and stop the offensive ping pong ball from getting past the defensive one. Not so easy right? They just slide by each other.

Now replace the defensive ping pong ball with a pop can and do the same thing. It’s quite clear that with these collision shapes defense is much more effective.

Things are obviously much more complex in the game, but essentially we have built two “pop cans” for the defender which are positioned along the shoulders and hips respectively. The offensive player has a “ping pong ball” positioned at his chest and hips.

The result is a much more realistic and effective collision system built for playing defense. You really feel like you have a physical presence on the court and have the power to stop the dribbler dead in his tracks.

Locomotion

Effective physical play isn’t of any use if you don’t have enough control over your defensive player to stay between your man and the basket. That’s why we scrapped our old locomotion system and implemented something new that is driven entirely using physics.


What this means is that you’ll get a level of responsiveness like you’ve never experienced before in a basketball game. Because the player is a particle in our physics simulation with a mass and forces applied to him, what he does will always respect momentum and will have a very consistent feel. We’ve tuned the momentum to give you just the level of responsiveness you need to stay with your opponent if you concentrate and react quickly to what your opponent does.

The physics implementation also makes it easy to give different players a different feel based on their player ratings.

Steals, Block and Rebounds

As mentioned above, steals, blocks and rebounds were implemented (at least partially) using two player animations in last year’s version of NBA LIVE. In NBA ELITE 11 we leverage the physics system to give you something completely different.

The biggest difference is that we’re now layering dynamic, physics driven animations onto the player who’s performing these actions as opposed to playing a canned animation. This means that you can steal while you’re moving around (because the steal animation is layered only on the upper body), you can reach in a 360 degree volume around your player, and where your player is reaching to can change dynamically while the animations are playing back.

For steals, this means not losing control of your player while you perform the action. It also means we can use proper physics and collision detection to determine if you got the ball, what direction it will be deflected, and whether or not it was a foul. On offense, it means you really need to protect the ball at all times and position yourself accordingly if you don’t want to lose the ball.

For blocks and rebounds, it means the outcome is not determined before the animation is launched. Players can adjust mid air to counter a dunk adjust or react to a change in direction of the ball mid flight. The physics system also allows us to collide with players mid air and alter the outcome on the court dynamically based on the physics simulation. Bigger, stronger players will be less likely to get bumped off their flight path making them feel stronger in the game.

Releasing the ball to physics

In NBA ELITE 11 you’re going to see a lot more variety in what the ball does, and because so much of the game is simulated through physics you’ll get a much more emergent gameplay experience.

In previous years, when you were passing a ball you’d pick the reception animation first, and throw the ball to that animation. Passes were rarely deflected because the system for picking up a ball that had been released to physics wasn’t very reliable.

This year, the reception system has been overhauled with the goal of always being able to get to the ball in a realistic and responsive way. This will apply to passing/receiving, chasing down a loose ball and rebounding.

Because of this we are now free to release the ball into physics at any time, and the game will respond intelligently.

This means in NBA ELITE 11 you’ll see tips, deflections, missed rebounds, lost dribbles, dribbles bouncing off opponents if you don’t protect the ball. All of this simulated using real ball physics.

Opening up the gameplay this way has made things much more dynamic and unpredictable, just like real NBA basketball.

The Ugly Duckling

One thing I want to be very clear about is that we did not integrate Real Physics into NBA ELITE 11 as a gimmick or as eye candy. We were very deliberate about where we chose to apply physics and to what degree. Every step of the way our goal was to improve the gameplay experience and the feel of the game. At times our animation visual quality may have taken a slight hit in favor of a better feel or more dynamic response. This tradeoff is deliberate.

In a video, a two man mocap animation is always going to look better than a dynamic, physically driven animation because it can be presented in the exact same context in which it was captured. When things change and the situation is different every time, that’s where our system shines. Until you actually play the game and feel the controls and the way the game responds to physics you will not be able to appreciate the tradeoffs we’ve made.

My hope is that everyone who reads this blog will download the demo when it’s released and judge for themselves.

The Bottom Line

Integrating physics into NBA ELITE 11 has had a huge impact on the gameplay experience. The animation system is much more dynamic and responsive to both the physics system and the user’s input, defense has been made both fun and effective by giving control to the player and releasing the ball to physics has created a game with emergent behavior where anything can happen.

This combined with our new controls and the countless additional gameplay improvements the team has worked so hard on this year makes NBA ELITE 11 the most realistic, dynamic and responsive basketball game I have ever played.

And it’s really, really fun.

Source - NBA Elite 11 Blog

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Member Comments
# 41 dexvex @ 07/31/10 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rEAnimator
This is correct.

Now, part of where the tradeoff comes in is in terms of variety.

(the numbers I'm about to use are in no way correct, I'm just using them to make a point)

Last year we may have had 50 rebound animations. Each one looks completely different, but there's not enough coverage to be able to catch the ball in every possible situation so you may have to warp the ball, and you'd be locked into the animation once it starts, making it impossible to change what you're doing if the ball is deflected.

This year, we may actually have 60 animations in the game, but they are used in a completely different way. We have many animations that look similar, but have subtle differences to meet the requirements of the physics system. We also have animations to support the collision system, and altering the players action while he's mid flight.

So technically we have more animations, but many of them have the same general look to them but have functional differences to support the physics system.

And because our animations are blended together, have IK applied to them, and are driven by physics, they are more reactive and technically look different every time.

But whether that difference reads as variety to you is a very subjective thing.

Makes answering questions about animation variety much more difficult than before.

I hope that makes sense.
I don't think anybody on here should have a problem with rebounding animations especially with the new physics because everybody pretty much rebounds the same way.

Where most would like to see some variance is things like crossovers, different layup/dunk packages, and other things to help differentiate and replicate the different styles in the real game.It kinda takes away form the experience when you see the same crossover animations from a guy like D.Rose being played exactly the same as a KD. You guys did some great things with the different momentums and such last year and with all the under-the-hood additions this year its a little selfish to expect 2k's animation depth this year but hopefully you will look into this next year as many agree it helps add to the experience.......
 
# 42 rEAnimator @ 07/31/10 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mario_2324
Makes alot of since.....You may have a number of animations that may look the same but occur in a diff way due 2 physics and situation....hmmmm sounds good. I like the trade off
I don't want to sounds sensationalist when I say this, but technically speaking we have an infinite number of animations.

Because the animations are blended in parallel, driven by physics and altered by IK, you'll never see the exact same pose twice for animations that work under that system.

Things like off play reactions don't fall into that category, but 90% of the animations you see in gameplay are.
 
# 43 NoTiCe_O @ 07/31/10 03:52 PM
I agree that signature moves does add more to the game, and not just signature shots.

Since you guys have the controls so seperated you should be able to do signature animations very well, maybe not this year.

but for instance, if a upward left scoop control does a left handed layup then different players should have more signature types of left handed layup, so Kobes left handed layups should look different from lebrons.

Even the driblble moves, if a full left-to-right U does a spin, than different players should have a different looking spin moves while still doing the same gesture, that goes for thru the legs, behind the back, left to right dribbles, hesitations crossovers, in n outs etc. You guys should just put different animations for different players even tho its all the same control
 
# 44 rEAnimator @ 07/31/10 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexvex
I don't think anybody on here should have a problem with rebounding animations especially with the new physics because everybody pretty much rebounds the same way.

Where most would like to see some variance is things like crossovers, different layup/dunk packages, and other things to help differentiate and replicate the different styles in the real game.It kinda takes away form the experience when you see the same crossover animations from a guy like D.Rose being played exactly the same as a KD. You guys did some great things with the different momentums and such last year and with all the under-the-hood additions this year its a little selfish to expect 2k's animation depth this year but hopefully you will look into this next year as many agree it helps add to the experience.......
I'm pretty sure that will be a focus for next year (although the direction has yet to be set...we're focused on finishing this year's game).

We didn't do a horrible job at it this year though, and you'll see some player differentiation in this years game that you didn't see last year.

But it definitely wasn't our focus.

That may disappoint some people, but please reserve judgment until you've tried the game.

With the new controls and physics, this will be the closest thing to playing real basketball we've ever offered up in a video game.

And if you have fun playing basketball, you're going to love playing this game.
 
# 45 Muzyk23 @ 07/31/10 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rEAnimator
Are you worried about the quality level of individual animations or the number of animations in the game?
more concerned with the latter though the former has also been lacking

let's take Live 10 - many animations looked good (not great though) but the biggest gripe was that there were not many of them overall, which made the game play flat
 
# 46 Bmlives @ 07/31/10 04:04 PM
So is it possible to do things out of the ordinary, such as when Kobe or Lamar Odom come from the Left side of the right and lay it up with the hand closest to the rim instead of the tradition farthest hand?

Honestly, As cool as sig shots/movements are, As long as I'm able to do whatever with any play, that's enough for me. I can stand Dirk not lifting a leg every time he fades away, as long as I'm able to back down, fake right, fake left, head fake to the left, then turn around to the right for the fade away jump shot.

So yeah, my question still is, is it possible to do ANY thing I want? Or are there things like wrong handed lay-ups left out of the game?
 
# 47 rEAnimator @ 07/31/10 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmlives
So is it possible to do things out of the ordinary, such as when Kobe or Lamar Odom come from the Left side of the right and lay it up with the hand closest to the rim instead of the tradition farthest hand?

Honestly, As cool as sig shots/movements are, As long as I'm able to do whatever with any play, that's enough for me. I can stand Dirk not lifting a leg every time he fades away, as long as I'm able to back down, fake right, fake left, head fake to the left, then turn around to the right for the fade away jump shot.

So yeah, my question still is, is it possible to do ANY thing I want? Or are there things like wrong handed lay-ups left out of the game?
This is a great point.

Yes, you can do all of these things, since you are in control of the player you can make him play as much as his real life counterpart as you want.

And we're working hard to ensure that the AI does the same when it's in control.

But at the end of the day, when you're controlling a player, what moves they use are completely under your control. How successful they are with those moves is based on player ratings and how well you executed the move.
 
# 48 Bmlives @ 07/31/10 04:32 PM
Alright, cool. Because there are several moments in a game of basketball where going against the textbook is key to making a play. So it's good to hear I finally take right handed layups from the left side of the rim.

Now I just want to know how passing will work and how fancy we can get with that, or if it's the same as last year. Last year drove me crazy. It's like no matter what, when freestyle passing on a break, if there was an open man, It would always miss and pass to some other guy. When it worked, it worked. But that's just frustrating missing out wide open guys when you flick the stick in their direction only to have the pass go completely elsewhere. I hope the aiming or AI of the freestyle passing is better this time around, or just bring the icons back.
 
# 49 23 @ 07/31/10 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokstar
Do you understand the more animation...the less control you have tho? Would u rather have more animations and less controll?
Im sorry man but thats one of the most off things I've ever read on here.

The only issue is being able to branch the animations.. I really hope you guys will not sit here and tell yourselves that less is better.
 
# 50 rEAnimator @ 07/31/10 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmlives
Alright, cool. Because there are several moments in a game of basketball where going against the textbook is key to making a play. So it's good to hear I finally take right handed layups from the left side of the rim.

Now I just want to know how passing will work and how fancy we can get with that, or if it's the same as last year. Last year drove me crazy. It's like no matter what, when freestyle passing on a break, if there was an open man, It would always miss and pass to some other guy. When it worked, it worked. But that's just frustrating missing out wide open guys when you flick the stick in their direction only to have the pass go completely elsewhere. I hope the aiming or AI of the freestyle passing is better this time around, or just bring the icons back.
Regular passing has been re-tuned, freestyle passing has been re-tuned and we do have icon passing.

So hopefully you'll like what you get.
 
# 51 krazyboy225 @ 07/31/10 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
Im sorry man but thats one of the most off things I've ever read on here.

The only issue is being able to branch the animations.. I really hope you guys will not sit here and tell yourselves that less is better.
Except if your in a charmin commercial ... btw thats the tissue commercial
 
# 52 Pokes404 @ 07/31/10 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rEAnimator
I'm pretty sure that will be a focus for next year (although the direction has yet to be set...we're focused on finishing this year's game).

We didn't do a horrible job at it this year though, and you'll see some player differentiation in this years game that you didn't see last year.

But it definitely wasn't our focus.

That may disappoint some people, but please reserve judgment until you've tried the game.

With the new controls and physics, this will be the closest thing to playing real basketball we've ever offered up in a video game.

And if you have fun playing basketball, you're going to love playing this game.
I like this, and sure hope that you're right. All of the signature moves and authentic shots are great, but I'll gladly wait another year for those if it means getting a great playing basketball game on the floor. So many sports games have disappointed me this generation because it seems like too many of them decided to go straight for the good looking graphics, authentic uniforms and arenas/stadiums, and a ton of other superfluous things, but forgot to make a solid foundation of gameplay from which to build on. It seems like you guys are laying the foundation this year, which will leave you the time to add in all the extras down the road. I'm fine with that.

I would say though, I'd be nice if you could get in as many different shot animations as possible this year. Signature moves are nice, but being able to give players different shot animations really adds to overall look of the game. It's just weird to see 2 or more players on the floor with the exact same shot. But as I said, with all the other improvements being made to the gameplay, I'm going to be pretty lenient this year.
 
# 53 23 @ 07/31/10 04:56 PM
Well I happen to think signature animations do matter.

Kobe and Dirk should not have the same fadeaway shot.

LeBron and KD should not do the exact same dribble moves as J. Kidd and Iverson.

Rondo should not be laying the ball up like J Rich.

It goes to feeling more or less generic when your game is like this, and the individualism isnt there, not just for the ability to hit a tough shot or dunk over 3 people, just how they interact on the court as who they are.
 
# 54 rEAnimator @ 07/31/10 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
Well I happen to think signature animations do matter.

Kobe and Dirk should not have the same fadeaway shot.

LeBron and KD should not do the exact same dribble moves as J. Kidd and Iverson.

Rondo should not be laying the ball up like J Rich.

It goes to feeling more or less generic when your game is like this, and the individualism isnt there, not just for the ability to hit a tough shot or dunk over 3 people, just how they interact on the court as who they are.
I completely respect your opinion here. Everyone has different priorities and views on what is important.

Elite won't have fewer signature moves from Live so it's not like we took anything away. We simply chose to put our focus on gameplay fundamentals and control this year.
 
# 55 robinsnestkc @ 07/31/10 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rEAnimator
I completely respect your opinion here. Everyone has different priorities and views on what is important.

Elite won't have fewer signature moves from Live so it's not like we took anything away. We simply chose to put our focus on gameplay fundamentals and control this year.
I understand where 23 is coming from I also understand where rEAnimator is coming from. Gameplay is the most important thing in any sports game. But, the overall experience of being LBJ or Kobe should be unique as well. Would it be possible to do both things at the same time? And if not will Sig stuff be a focus in the near future?
 
# 56 FearlessKaz @ 07/31/10 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rEAnimator
I completely respect your opinion here. Everyone has different priorities and views on what is important.

Elite won't have fewer signature moves from Live so it's not like we took anything away. We simply chose to put our focus on gameplay fundamentals and control this year.
This is good depending upon witch Live you are referring to. Live '10 had a considerable amount of signature moves taken out that were in Live '09

Have you guys incorporated these moves back into Elite? Or were you saying that based on the sig stuff that was in last years game?
 
# 57 Muzyk23 @ 07/31/10 05:52 PM
I think the topic of signature shots and animations shouldn't be even discussed when it comes to Elite 11. Everyone will have the same fadeaway again. It's me but I demand more, the whole package.
 
# 58 Super Glock @ 07/31/10 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
Well I happen to think signature animations do matter.

Kobe and Dirk should not have the same fadeaway shot.

LeBron and KD should not do the exact same dribble moves as J. Kidd and Iverson.

Rondo should not be laying the ball up like J Rich.

It goes to feeling more or less generic when your game is like this, and the individualism isnt there, not just for the ability to hit a tough shot or dunk over 3 people, just how they interact on the court as who they are.

I think they matter also, but it I personally can do without them for a year if everything else works out. I would then like it to be the focus for next years game.
 
# 59 PH1LLYSFINEST13 @ 07/31/10 06:02 PM
I posted this question earlier and I didnt see it answered... maybe you cant , or maybe you just didnt see it.

Whats the difference between this real time physics and the one that 2k is trying to implement in their game? And what are the advantages if its a different engine?

Thanks for answering and sorry for the double post if i missed the answer
 
# 60 ParisB @ 07/31/10 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23
Im sorry man but thats one of the most off things I've ever read on here.

The only issue is being able to branch the animations.. I really hope you guys will not sit here and tell yourselves that less is better.
Nobody is saying they want less animations

We prefer adding an exponential amount of user control that's not severely hindered by canned animations.
If some of the transition animations suffer from it then so be it, I would gladly accept it.

That's what Elite is giving and you can't find anywhere else.

Other games I've played sure look pretty (in animations, although the outdated engines with no anti-aliasing hurt the graphics) but are an absolute chore and frustration to play.
 


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