NBA 2K11 News Post

Mike Wang Returns to 2K Sports: NBA 2K Series (ESPN)

01:17 AM - February 2, 2010 by iamemmittsmith

It's official. Mike Wang has returned to 2K Sports as Lead Gameplay Designer for NBA 2K11. ESPN has some of the details.

Quote:


	"When I went over there (to EA), a lot of it was for personal reasons. I wanted to try something new, try a new challenge. But after being there and spending some time over at EA, it was clear that they do things a different way, and in a way it's just inefficient and just not the place to be to make the best games," said Wang in a recent conference call with ESPN to announce his return. "When I went there, I immediately missed VC (Visual Concepts), and it's just one of those things where I tried to stick it out as long as I could, but I wanted to come back. With some of the creative decisions over at EA, it just made it difficult to stay there. They just want to make a different game than I had a vision for. So I reached out to (2K's senior vice president of sports development) Greg Thomas and he was gracious enough to have me back."

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Member Comments

# 121 DaveDQ @ 02/03/10 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratedmoney


	I hope 2K focuses on better online

Thomas mentions it will be fixed in 2K11. While I am frustrated with this year's effort, I think they can get it done.

# 122 rspencer86 @ 02/03/10 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDQ


	Thomas mentions it will be fixed in 2K11. While I am frustrated with this year's effort, I think they can get it done.

How many years in a row have they said this? I have no confidence in the NBA 2K team when it comes to making online work properly.

# 123 rspencer86 @ 02/03/10 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv


	DId you even read the reason why he said it was broken?

Yes, and that is exactly why I don't have much confidence. They are still using netcode from the Dreamcast era? Come on, now.

# 124 DaveDQ @ 02/03/10 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rspencer86


	Yes, and that is exactly why I don't have much confidence. They are still using netcode from the Dreamcast era? Come on, now.

That very well may be the case. It does explain a lot because 2K's code is very unreliable. Play a game like Fight Night 4, and experience how fluid it is and you will see 2K just fails there.

# 125 Rocboyz101 @ 02/03/10 06:24 PM

I can't believe it. Wow.

# 126 jmood88 @ 02/03/10 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rspencer86


	Yes, and that is exactly why I don't have much confidence. They are still using netcode from the Dreamcast era? Come on, now.

They kept using it because it worked and since they are having problems with it they are changing it.

# 127 Rocboyz101 @ 02/03/10 06:49 PM

Weren't they supposed to change the coding this year though?

# 128 rspencer86 @ 02/03/10 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocboyz101


	Weren't they supposed to change the coding this year though?

Yes.

From the OS Hands-On Preview:

Quote:


	There were a ton of problems that were associated with the online modes in NBA 2K9. Thankfully, the developers have focused on this portion of the experience -- they have rewritten a bunch of online code in an effort to try and make sure the online portion of the game works smoothly from day one.

Obviously whatever they did didn't work. Why should I be confident this will be completely fixed this year again?

# 129 Tomba @ 02/03/10 07:21 PM

They need Tomba not Wang lol

I'm interested in seeing the 2k engine not really evolve but moreso the graphics engine be revamped in some way

# 130 bamalam @ 02/03/10 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	First, he didn't work on those games by himself. never stated he did, but wrong or right he is associated with all those games mentioned. and that gives him a strong track record. Second, for all the accolades people give to Inside Drive, it went away not because of exclusivity, but because there weren't enough people buying the game. i thought it went away as part of the ms agreement to get rid of its sports line. i could be wrong. sales were pretty strong for id. Have to disagree with the need for some people to only comment on games at either end of the spectrum. 2K9 imo wasn't a bad game - there were many obvious gameplay improvements that occurred in 2K9 that were being put out as features for Live 10. It's your right not to like the game, but I don't see the need for some to always overstate issues. 2k9 was a bad game, no doubt about it. not overstating it. no def ai, pip,etc. many agree with me on this Live 10 is supposed to be a good game, yet in a heads up battle w/no discernible advantages to either (other than maybe EA having more marketing muscle) it got smoked. 2K10 is clearly the better/more feature rich game. i agree 2k10 was miles beyond live 10. i refernced that game only to point out that d/t wang, live was even in the conversation as a distant alternate to those dudes who like live. my game this year is 2k10 by a landslide(rob stated they were going back and looking at 2k7 to improve 2k9 and result was 2k10. wang was 2k7. look where each game started from o8 games. live made a huge jump because of wang. as a comparison from jump 2k6 made to 2k7, and live 08 to live 09, it is a valid point that wang was the pivotal influence in those jumps. All this talk of "I hope Mike Wang fixes the color palette on the cover" "I think Mike Wang's involvement means we'll get 240-page manuals with the game" like talk is silly. Like before, he'll add to an already strong dev team. He's not THE team. They've succeeded with him, they've succeeded without him. I'm guessing they'll be that much better with him back.

didnt read all that talk, but agree he will make the team better, a lot better.

# 131 HMcCoy @ 02/04/10 07:14 AM

A lot of folks are confusing Beluba's impact as a statement that he does everything by himself. Thats obviously false. But great basketball games appearing out of thin air every single time he takes a lead is fact. Even if he doesn't lift a finger, his ideas and direction makes basketball games significantly better. Give the man his propers.

Obviously, noobs on here don't remember when the pre-Wang 2K series was an absolute joke, and a distant third in the OS hivemind, lol.

I think the most interesting thing to take from this is that you can NOT force sim down peoples throats. I don't blame the folks at EA for wanting to change focus a bit, because the idea that everyone wants realistic basketball is the biggest fallacy in gaming. The Show is often brought up as an example, but that's heavily skewed. Their competition blows. When High Heat was touted as being the most realistic baseball game on the market, it still got crushed by MVP, ASB and WSB in sales. Uber-realism is a niche ideal, kids. 99.9% of 2K players don't play remotely sim, and I'd wager it's an even bigger disparity throughout Live's fanbase. I think Live10 proved that being heavy handed with defensive AI may draw a handful of realism junkies, but won't get you much love from the masses. I hope 2k continues to be the best of both worlds.

I just want to see some of Live's locomotion innovations and smooth movement brought over, their home/away uni freedom and accesories implemented, and all bugs squashed.

Welcome back, B.

# 132 Pared @ 02/04/10 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv


	up until 2K9 they had no reason to change it, just tweak it. 2K9 seen a huge up from 2K8, and 2K10 even more. No one, i mean no one expected 60 percent in increased sales. They kept with the norm, but now that NBA series is a huge hit, they have to alter things. What was 2K best known for? their online. NFL2K series and their early NBA2K series. There as never any issues really with online except when 2 people's connections didnt synch up. The old saying is, dont fix something thats not broken, well that ish is broken now and they are going to fix it. I think they are starting with MLB2K10 i believe. They told me a few other things as well that i cant really say yet as they want to release that in due time, but i hope whatever it is they are doing now works.

This is a huge crock. The more you post, the more ridiculous you make yourself look.

I've been running leagues here since 2k7 and network drops have consistently been a problem every single year.

No matter if things get changed, looked at, thought of, theorized, talked about and any other choice words you can think of, the online play has failed to be stable to where it is at the level of other games.

We've trekked through our leagues even with the drops, but stop posting, because you're making yourself out to be a mini-version of Ronnie and you do that company more harm than good.

# 133 spankdatazz22 @ 02/04/10 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMcCoy


	A lot of folks are confusing Beluba's impact as a statement that he does everything by himself. Thats obviously false. But great basketball games appearing out of thin air every single time he takes a lead is fact. Even if he doesn't lift a finger, his ideas and direction makes basketball games significantly better. Give the man his propers. Obviously, noobs on here don't remember when the pre-Wang 2K series was an absolute joke, and a distant third in the OS hivemind, lol. I think the most interesting thing to take from this is that you can NOT force sim down peoples throats. I don't blame the folks at EA for wanting to change focus a bit, because the idea that everyone wants realistic basketball is the biggest fallacy in gaming. The Show is often brought up as an example, but that's heavily skewed. Their competition blows. When High Heat was touted as being the most realistic baseball game on the market, it still got crushed by MVP, ASB and WSB in sales. Uber-realism is a niche ideal, kids. 99.9% of 2K players don't play remotely sim, and I'd wager it's an even bigger disparity throughout Live's fanbase. I think Live10 proved that being heavy handed with defensive AI may draw a handful of realism junkies, but won't get you much love from the masses. I hope 2k continues to be the best of both worlds. I just want to see some of Live's locomotion innovations and smooth movement brought over, their home/away uni freedom and accesories implemented, and all bugs squashed. Welcome back, B.

Good post; agree w/your points. I definitely respect Beluba's impact on basketball games and feel that he'll make the 2K team that much stronger. Just disagree w/the view that was seemingly being perpetrated that he's somehow involved in all aspects of developing a game and can somehow be made soley responsible for a game's success, yet none of it's failures. I think the teams need to be given more respect than that, a lot more. As I said I'm no fan of Live, but I have to wonder how their team feels w/so many people jumping off their bandwagon simply because of what one person said, not because of what they've done. The hardcore can be extremely fickle.

And definitely agree w/your points re the uber-realism many preach as the only thing acceptable with no compromises. Not that I think Live is some hyper-sim from my brief experience playing it, but think developers have to take the approach of making their games be as well-rounded as possible.

# 134 BroMontana82 @ 02/04/10 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	And definitely agree w/your points re the uber-realism many preach as the only thing acceptable with no compromises. Not that I think Live is some hyper-sim from my brief experience playing it, but think developers have to take the approach of making their games be as well-rounded as possible.

exactly. for the broad fanbase, sim doesn't sell as well as the sportscenter highlight reel plays and the ease of performing them in the game. this is certainly the case for online play too. most people don't want to play sim and have proper defensive positioning. they want the 360 windmill dunks. this is a fact. these companies do aggressive perception studies, analyse consumer sentiment, and constantly utilize FECS (front end customer strategy). every company does this...how else would they continue to be profitbable if they didn't cater to what their customers wanted? i think everyone here is guilty at some point of forgetting that we and the sim crowd are just a small portion of the game's buyers. it's all about pleasing the largest segment of consumers and cost/benefit ratios. i think overall, at least for 2k, more and more people want sim, but again, not everyone does so most sports games will never be strictly sim. we just need to keep voicing our opinions but also realize the reality of the situation and the market for these games.

# 135 CX1329 @ 02/04/10 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sambf12


	for the broad fanbase, sim doesn't sell as well as the sportscenter highlight reel plays and the ease of performing them in the game. this is certainly the case for online play too. most people don't want to play sim and have proper defensive positioning. they want the 360 windmill dunks. this is a fact. i think overall, at least for 2k, more and more people want sim,

This is an example of how people sometimes forget that the 2K series isn't some sort of holy grail of basketball, devoted to protecting the innocence and purity of basketball gaming. In 2K9, you could take Kobe or Lebron and perform said 360 windmill dunks every time down. And while 2K10 rectified that problem to a large extent, you can still pound the ball into the paint nearly everytime if you're that intent and know how to cheese.

Regardless of what blind fans (and this isn't targeted at anybody, I'm just speaking in general) might think, the issue isn't so simple as 2K being "sim" and Live being "arcade". EA is guilty of producing some terribly arcade games, but 2K isn't exempt from guilt either. I'd go as far as to say that Live 10 plays a LOT more sim out of the box than any 2K game ever has. Prior to 2K10, I can't recall ever playing a single NBA 2K game in which I couldn't just run up to the basket and dunk all day straight out of the box. Sliders have always been a necessity.

# 136 BroMontana82 @ 02/04/10 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CX1329


	This is an example of how people sometimes forget that the 2K series isn't some sort of holy grail of basketball, devoted to protecting the innocence and purity of basketball gaming. In 2K9, you could take Kobe or Lebron and perform said 360 windmill dunks every time down. And while 2K10 rectified that problem to a large extent, you can still pound the ball into the paint nearly everytime if you're that intent and know how to cheese. Regardless of what blind fans (and this isn't targeted at anybody, I'm just speaking in general) might think, the issue isn't so simple as 2K being "sim" and Live being "arcade". EA is guilty of producing some terribly arcade games, but 2K isn't exempt from guilt either. I'd go as far as to say that Live 10 plays a LOT more sim out of the box than any 2K game ever has. Prior to 2K10, I can't recall ever playing a single NBA 2K game in which I couldn't just run up to the basket and dunk all day straight out of the box. Sliders have always been a necessity.

where did i say 2k was the holy grail of basketball? or were you saying in general? i never praised 2k as a complete sim and was pretty much saying what you did by my point of 100% sim doesn't sell so you're never going to get a perfect game and that there is a big "arcade" element in it still. i should have stated that explicitly i guess. believe me, there is still a lot to criticize, and i would obviously like a lot changed to make the game more sim. if it were up to me, but i was tacitly suggesting that you're going to get what a games customer base broadly wants...and that's not 100% sim. companies make these decisions strategically, usually on a revenue basis.

also, you provided evidence about what i said about more and more people wanting sim by saying 2k rectified some problems. 2k fans did want more sim and have been asking for it for years, and they reacted by adding more sim elements to it like the stats and contact in the paint etc.

# 137 23 @ 02/04/10 04:40 PM

...but I still believe that giving the users the option to make changes help.

I can take a liking to 2ks customization options..

EA's, there are things that should've never been programmed into the game that ruins the gameplay elements like Fisher doing dribble moves as if he's CP3... that mess gets old quickly, especially when you can't tweak it.

# 138 Rocboyz101 @ 02/04/10 08:48 PM

2Ks gotta start making games that are sim out of the box, or atleast have sim presets.

# 139 Sinner @ 02/04/10 09:07 PM

yeah, having the ability to select a type of game play sim/arcade out the box would be nice. Maybe right after it loads up and goes through its opening sequnce it ask whats your game? You have the option to select Arcade or Sim and the settings and sliders will default accordingly. Or if they don't want the word Arcade in their game go with Regular or Sim. Can even have it where you select your favorite team for when you want to change it.

# 140 Jonesy @ 02/04/10 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinner


	yeah, having the ability to select a type of game play sim/arcade out the box would be nice. Maybe right after it loads up and goes through its opening sequnce it ask whats your game? You have the option to select Arcade or Sim and the settings and sliders will default accordingly. Or if they don't want the word Arcade in their game go with Regular or Sim. Can even have it where you select your favorite team for when you want to change it.

Thats a great idea. They could have seperate lobbies online for both game types as well.

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