News Post

Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

11:53 AM - March 24, 2009 by RaychelSnr

If you have been paying attention to the community’s efforts to tweak NBA 2K9 during the past few months, you probably noticed that Neon1, one of the hardest-working NBA 2K community members, redid the ratings and tendencies for every player and coach in the game.

As someone who had previously shelved NBA 2K9 out of frustration, I was initially excited to sit down and try this tweaked version of NBA 2K9 now that March Madness is in full bloom.

But after only a few games as my underachieving Grizzlies -- who have actually gotten a lot better, ratings-wise, since I last touched the game -- it became clear to me that the same opinion I had formed a few months ago still holds true:

NBA 2K9 is a mess, and no amount of slider tweaking or roster editing can save it.

So, in the first of a two-part series, I am here to explain why I have given up on NBA hoops this year, and I am also here to detail what needs to be improved in 2010.

Read More - Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Game: NBA 2K9Reader Score: 8.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS2 / PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 72 - View All

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Member Comments

# 301 Pared @ 04/16/09 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky


	I disagree. Live's help defense is misleading. You drive one way and a spot on the opposite corner is GUARANTEED to be open. This kinda happened in NBA2K8 as well and to tone it down, they didn't rotate the guards or leave anyone open. Two different approaches, but both are flawed. Realistic help D in NBA2K series can't happen until the passing engine is reworked IMO.

Yes, you are correct. It is flawed in this sense. But they have defensive rotations and help D much better set than 2k9 does.

On top of that, the defenders don't play ball-them-man, they play their man. When they are "tight" they are not playing off ball defense.

# 302 DC @ 04/17/09 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey P


	I guess I'm old school, I remember when sliders didn't exist. You played the game for what its worth. Now, guys want the game to become their favorite game, right out the box. Why are we so spoiled? 2k gave us the option of changing player ratings and even appearances, what do we gripe about, hidden ratings. Why should the company keep spoon feeding you everything? That's why forums like OS are around, for the masses to HELP each other. Like I said, I guess I'm old school but the longevity and customization of the game is more important than the game being good out the box.

There is NO reason for them to hide ratings. Us asking for that is hardly "never being satisfied."

I guess we shouldn't complain about not being able to FULLY edit the prospects in Association Mode right? See things like this upset me about 2K. How in the HELL can you put in an Edit Prospect feature and only allow us to edit the eye color?

No excuse for that man

# 303 STLRams @ 04/17/09 08:27 AM

Interesting thread, you know me and a fellow 2Kgamer of mines was playing NBA2K9 together and started talking about positives and negatives about it. He said something interesting though, he mentioned that he doesn't see how people play NBA Live even though it improved with 09. But he also said that he wonders as 2KBasketball gamers are we blinded by 2K's great animations and presentation? He said what about the all of the constant gameplay problems, online problems, and core A.I. problems, tendencies problems each year? I started thinking maybe I am such a huge 2Kbasketball fan that I'm blinded by there loads of animations and presentation??

# 304 Jeffx @ 04/17/09 06:06 PM

At least I've been able to cut down on the back-door layups by taking control of the C or PF and patrol the paint. It's a delicate balancing act, because I have to watch my man(especially the good/great big men) and anticipate a cutter. But I'll concede a jump shot over a layup plus the foul.

# 305 DC @ 04/17/09 09:05 PM

^ LOL Why do you assume he would play a human the same way he plays the CPU?

# 306 thriller92 @ 04/17/09 09:23 PM

Why is it so sacriligous and "not sim' to play off the ball defence with your bigs/corner player to protect the paint. In the NBA almost every team leads/shades periemeter players(especially the top level guys) into help defence along the baseline, and its clear that the CPU has not been programmed to do so, so why is it against the 'sim laws' to do it by yourself if you know its pretty much the only way to cut off PITP? You can say ohhh only the skilled players play on ball defence all game every play but thats complete BS. Theres so many ways to exploit people who do play on ball because of all of the crazy animations(especially the layup one) that there really isnt any point of playing it all game long unless you want to lose and give up 90% PITP to the other team.

Now if the CPU was programmed to rotate properly and there was some resemblance of a defensive playbook where you could have the CPU zoning one side like many teams do in the NBA THEN I think itd be a lot funner and easier to play on ball all game and not feel cheated when the offensive player just basically barrels into you until they get to the rim(another huge problem with the game, but I wont get into that).

Pretty much the only time you can play on ball D and not get crushed right now and BSed is playing an actual sim player who actually knows how to play the game of basketball, and thats really like 2% of the 2K population.

# 307 Jeffx @ 04/17/09 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thriller92


	Why is it so sacriligous and "not sim' to play off the ball defence with your bigs/corner player to protect the paint. In the NBA almost every team leads/shades periemeter players(especially the top level guys) into help defence along the baseline, and its clear that the CPU has not been programmed to do so, so why is it against the 'sim laws' to do it by yourself if you know its pretty much the only way to cut off PITP? You can say ohhh only the skilled players play on ball defence all game every play but thats complete BS. Theres so many ways to exploit people who do play on ball because of all of the crazy animations(especially the layup one) that there really isnt any point of playing it all game long unless you want to lose and give up 90% PITP to the other team. Now if the CPU was programmed to rotate properly and there was some resemblance of a defensive playbook where you could have the CPU zoning one side like many teams do in the NBA THEN I think itd be a lot funner and easier to play on ball all game and not feel cheated when the offensive player just basically barrels into you until they get to the rim(another huge problem with the game, but I wont get into that).

Thank you, excellent post. I love these cats with their sacred 'sim laws'. I didn't program this ****, I'm adjusting to how the CPU plays. I got tired of pinpoint passing by the CPU, and players I'm not controlling look clueless on defense and giving up easy layups.

# 308 Kubbas @ 04/17/09 09:58 PM

I agree with guy above. I'm done this year too.

# 309 Rawdeal28 @ 04/18/09 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thriller92


	Why is it so sacriligous and "not sim' to play off the ball defence with your bigs/corner player to protect the paint. In the NBA almost every team leads/shades periemeter players(especially the top level guys) into help defence along the baseline, and its clear that the CPU has not been programmed to do so, so why is it against the 'sim laws' to do it by yourself if you know its pretty much the only way to cut off PITP? You can say ohhh only the skilled players play on ball defence all game every play but thats complete BS. Theres so many ways to exploit people who do play on ball because of all of the crazy animations(especially the layup one) that there really isnt any point of playing it all game long unless you want to lose and give up 90% PITP to the other team. Now if the CPU was programmed to rotate properly and there was some resemblance of a defensive playbook where you could have the CPU zoning one side like many teams do in the NBA THEN I think itd be a lot funner and easier to play on ball all game and not feel cheated when the offensive player just basically barrels into you until they get to the rim(another huge problem with the game, but I wont get into that). Pretty much the only time you can play on ball D and not get crushed right now and BSed is playing an actual sim player who actually knows how to play the game of basketball, and thats really like 2% of the 2K population.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timid


	I agree with this.........People bitching about off ball defense need to get a clue and stop whining..........If you wanna play good D in this game, you need to make up for the Ai's weaknesses.....Period........Unless you enjoy losing and I don't particularly have fun losing just because I'm trying to play so damn sim...........Guard me on the ball and taking you to hole everytime with very little isomotion.......just some stick skills.......

i agree with both of you. dont listen to these ignorant people man. nothing wrong with playing off-ball D. as long as you are not running around trying to steal the ball it is fine.

# 310 luv_mist @ 04/18/09 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rawdeal28


	i agree with both of you. dont listen to these ignorant people man. nothing wrong with playing off-ball D. as long as you are not running around trying to steal the ball it is fine.

I think that's what the problem is when people hear about a user playing off-ball defense. Usually, it's someone who's running around blocking 3 point shots, and trying to still everything. I try to play off ball only against the computer because there are some amazing things that seem to happen when I'm not. I hate getting posterized in my house.....literally. Nothing more depressing than getting teabagged by the A.I. because they're cheating.......LOL!!

# 311 Rawdeal28 @ 04/19/09 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv_mist


	I think that's what the problem is when people hear about a user playing off-ball defense. Usually, it's someone who's running around blocking 3 point shots, and trying to still everything. I try to play off ball only against the computer because there are some amazing things that seem to happen when I'm not. I hate getting posterized in my house.....literally. Nothing more depressing than getting teabagged by the A.I. because they're cheating.......LOL!!

ok i can understand that cuz i hate people who do that. but i dont. i play off ball quite often but i dont run around trying to steal the ball and blocking 3 point shots. i just play my man straight up. this is against humans as well.

lmao@ getting t-bagged by the A.I.
yeah i hate that too. u got me rolling over here

# 312 DC @ 04/19/09 08:32 AM

You HAVE to play off the ball to get proper help defense

# 313 Jeffx @ 04/19/09 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


	You HAVE to play off the ball to get proper help defense

Actually, YOU have to provide the help defense. The CPU's help defense is money, but players on your team get beat constantly on back-door cuts. That's why I control a big man most of the time.

# 314 DC @ 04/19/09 03:50 PM

^ Yea that is what I am saying. You have to put your folks in proper help

I guard the ball but I am constantly swithcing on/off to the opposite post to put him in position to help, just in case I get beat

# 315 mrchiggs @ 04/20/09 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o_capone


	those same types of animations have happend for me vs the computer with me being the defender... watch this video to see the result... http://community.2ksports.com/commun...?mediaid=13042 i was the blazers, computer was the raptors... shaq jumped way before iggy... iggy traveled like crazy tho then shaq's arm goes right through him... it does not always happen like that tho, some times you block the CPU's shot on those too...

LOL you now what pisses me off most... Is my boy I play against will celebrate a shot like that. Like YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!...

# 316 mrchiggs @ 04/20/09 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican


	^ Yea that is what I am saying. You have to put your folks in proper help I guard the ball but I am constantly swithcing on/off to the opposite post to put him in position to help, just in case I get beat

Thats the same thing I do. I guard the PG down the floor and then move off him once the opposing PG settles down for trying to blow past him.

# 317 Jeffx @ 04/21/09 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrchiggs


	Thats the same thing I do. I guard the PG down the floor and then move off him once the opposing PG settles down for trying to blow past him.

Yep, I do the same thing. Usually I switch to the center, and I'm causing more turnovers by doubling the cutters(tipped passes, steals, shot clock violations).

# 318 HMcCoy @ 04/27/09 02:44 AM

To anyone who read my original post in this thread...

Been practicing contesting layups with the steal button and I am a complete moron.

The 'contested layup' interaction kicks in based simply on position and you don't have to hit the steal button. You don't have to be moving at all. Simply standing in the way with no input is sometimes the best way to get this thing to work I've found. The steal button makes you lunge into that position sometimes, but does not trigger the interaction itself.

After 2 weeks of trying to determine the correct positions, it seems to be based on being directly between the shooter and the basket when the layup animation fires, but then again, it sometimes kicks in when you are behind the shooter, off to the side, etc. So while I'm starting to learn where you need to be positioned to have the best chance of contesting layups without jumping, I have no idea if it can be controlled precisely, or if its just the CPU dragging a near defender into the play as part of some "defended layup" calculation. It definitly triggers at a MUCH higher rate if you're locked on to the shooter at the start of his layup animation, but again, lock-on not required.

While I HATE the random nature of this mechanic, its ironic that the best on-ball defensive tactic for protecting the rim is based on simply being at the right place at the right time vs. timing the block button. It would also be abused to DEATH on every layup if it were simple, so...

Sorry for the bad info.

# 319 stead21 @ 05/02/09 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumbleweed


	Agreed on all points. There are good things about this game, but I can hardly play the actual game anymore... I only run Team-Up these days. Even against good players that I loved playing in previous 2K basketball games, I can hardly stand the game itself long enough to finish a game.. and by the end, I'm pissed off, even if I win. Defense is by far the most frustrating part of the game.. there's simply nothing you can do to stop people most of the time. Seems like you normally jump a milisecond too early (or late) and the contest makes absolutely no difference, or you time it properly and the ball just clips through your hand/arm and ends up going in (this is especially bad with star players). The drive game is almost as bad, simply because of the clipping issues and the totally ineffective CPU help defense. There HAS to be a way to contest shots without actually leaving your feet -- that's BASIC basketball, and that's probably the main thing that's really been bugging me about the game this year. At least in previous years, the "proximity defense" would generally make tough shots miss for all but the best players -- now if someone halfway decent is hot, they'll nail everything regardless of how close you are to them. I had a guy hang 65 of 69 points on me with LeBron despite me even resorting to playing off-ball defense with a big man, simply because he got hot via some some bull** clipping dunks and then was blinking red the rest of the game, just nailing everything including deep threes like the defenders weren't on the court. It's just inexcusable that the game has suffered such a huge drop-off in basketball IQ this year. It looks pretty, but the core elements are so **y that it makes all that extra stuff worthless. At least we have regular roster updates now... yee ha.

YOUR AVATAR RULES MAN, TPB FO LIFE!!!! I think the all time teams are tired IMO. Has anybody switched from 2K9 to Live at all? I was just curious what you guys think.

# 320 Fresh Prince @ 05/03/09 05:27 PM

This game is a major disappointment to me as well. Since NBA Live sucks, I've been without a fulfilling basketball game since NBA 2k7.

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