07:33 PM - July 7, 2008 by deltroyMadden 09 News Post
07:33 PM - July 7, 2008 by deltroyMadden NFL 09 Videos
Member Comments
# 61
BrianFifaFan @ 07/12/08 08:50 PM
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What's my point? The game wasn't re-written so much, save the breakaway engine and new controls. But then they "tune" the game to put the D at a major disadvantage to complete the illusion. Why? Why can't both be good? It really wouldn't be such a big deal if the OL/DL stuff wasn't so broken to begin with. But to tune the game to lessen my ability to get pressure when I could barely get any in previous games? It's like the Michael Vick fiasco of Madden 04 again. I'm not saying that Madden will be this way, really hoping not. But it is really evident that NCAA needs some fundimental reprogramming to get the game to balance out where you can have fast smart offense and fasr smart D. This tuning back and forth is making for unbalanced, bordering on unrealistic gameplay. Oh yeah, I can see the comeback AI has been brought back to keep the game exciting. Overall a good game, but I'm hoping that Madden is far more "sim" than NCAA.......
# 62
Ian_Cummings @ 07/12/08 09:03 PM
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It's been a while since I've heard the old "comeback code" line...I swear on my life there is no such thing.
# 63
SoxFan01605 @ 07/12/08 09:10 PM
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It would be nice if Madden could take a year and just focus on core gameplay tuning (like OL/DL, WR/DB, and QB pocket movement, etc) without having to weaken "A" to strengthen "B," but I also understand that (as I beleve Ian said some time ago) it would be tough to market that to the average consumer. The irony is that all the time taken to "tune" the game to be more competative or exciting could probably be used to make a more authentic experience...which would probably lead to competative and exciting games.
# 64
BrianFifaFan @ 07/12/08 09:13 PM
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P.S. I might be the only one who does this but I read the credits on NCAA. I saw the shared resource teams you were talking about. I tinl they were called "centrals?" It was cool to see your name and Simon's and Adam's. That's why I'm bringing up NCAA gameplay. It seems to be a shared resource, to an extent.
# 65
BrianFifaFan @ 07/12/08 09:22 PM
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# 66
adembroski @ 07/12/08 09:25 PM
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There came a point where my strategy became "Get as big an early lead as humanly possible and try to out last 'em".
# 67
Ian_Cummings @ 07/12/08 09:34 PM
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# 68
Ian_Cummings @ 07/12/08 09:37 PM
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# 69
Ian_Cummings @ 07/12/08 09:39 PM
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Re: Line play the foundation of video game?
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Re: Line play the foundation of video game?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nza
It all starts up front, in real life and in virtual representations of the sport. 09 may play well, hell it may play great, but Madden can't and won't push the gameplay barrier until this is addressed; it is simply too integral to the sport for it to not to matter this much. Right now, Madden plays its own brand of football that, while mimicking real life, fails to address far too many real life aspects. Properly done OL and DL will change this into Madden playing NFL football.
Ian, I think that you feel this way....YOU want real Football.....It starts with the line play............WE ALL (O.K. Most) thing 2009 looks like a base for a fun and realistic game of Madden ................can Madden NFL 2010 be the year for the focus on OL/DL?
Bring your "A" game
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Re: Line play the foundation of video game?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nza
It all starts up front, in real life and in virtual representations of the sport. 09 may play well, hell it may play great, but Madden can't and won't push the gameplay barrier until this is addressed; it is simply too integral to the sport for it to not to matter this much. Right now, Madden plays its own brand of football that, while mimicking real life, fails to address far too many real life aspects. Properly done OL and DL will change this into Madden playing NFL football.
Ian, I think that you feel this way....YOU want real Football.....It starts with the line play............WE ALL (O.K. Most) thing 2009 looks like a base for a fun and realistic game of Madden ................can Madden NFL 2010 be the year for the focus on OL/DL?
Bring your "A" game
# 71
BrianFifaFan @ 07/12/08 09:53 PM
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People complain about a comeback code and complain about realism at the same time. Those complaints somewhat contradict each since in many instances a real-life NFL team will be more aggressive when they are down and need to score. Especially a team with talented players and a top quarterback such as manning of favre. Not all teams/players can do this but many do and can.
Do people not want teams/players to change their intensity regardless of the situation?
I hope that EA takes this into account somewhat because computer players should mimic there real life counterparts at times and turn up the intensity during crucial game-time situations.
Do people not want teams/players to change their intensity regardless of the situation?
I hope that EA takes this into account somewhat because computer players should mimic there real life counterparts at times and turn up the intensity during crucial game-time situations.
# 73
Ian_Cummings @ 07/12/08 10:41 PM
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Thanks for the link. He's actually incorrect on a few of those...d'oh! I am going to talk with him and we'll post more info soon.
I too have issues with the imbalance of play every year. I know it's the nature of the beast when adding features, but if something such as spec catch imbalances the game THAT much, maybe it isn't worth putting in.
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I think what it all boils down to when it comes to superior gameplay is the LITTLE THINGS, and that's what Madden fails at year after year. It's not about just taking one element such as "Juke Stick" and making it the main focus of your game for that particularly year. It's about getting all the LITTLE things right which in the end will make your game stand out in a BIG way.
Little things such as giving each O-linemen different reacting animations to add that feel of realism. Seeing your running back put his hand on an O-linemans back and push off to get thru a whole. Seeing a DB/WR jamming each other at the line of scrimmage only to see the WR slip and lose his balance for a sec. Seeing the refs out there on the field and sometimes even being involved in plays getting ran over. Seeing a lb in the process of trying to bring down a Maroney and having the ability to come over there help the lb bring him down. Seeing a WR release down the field into his route only to pull up and start limping due to him pulling a hamstring. Different D-line rip animations, the QB having a smooth drop back and when I move him around he's not just back pedaling and looking stiff. Lineman tussling with one another after a play is over. WR's slipping in the rain. Seeing different running backs have there actual running style and QB's have there actual throwing styles.
I could go on and on with the LITTLE things as far as GAMEPLAY is concern that makes a game standout. And at the end of the day adds replay value to a game and brings the consumer back time after time.
I remember the old Lakers vs Celtics games every star had there own little move from Chris Mullin to Hardaway's ustep to Jordan and Wilkins..etc. This is what made the game so fun. The individuality that stood out with the game.
And remember NBA Showdown? The on fire and cold streaks? Star players had there own indivdual moves in that game as well. Those were the fun days of gaming. And seems like with the technology we have nowadays, gaming companies should not only be able to implement those things but expand upon them in a way that has never been done before.
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It warms the cockles of my heart knowing I can count on this. I can understand the NCAA game being fun, to a point, being more arcade-like than Madden. However...if I'm going to spend possibly a few hundred hours in franchise mode, for me...fun just isn't enough. I need the game to be as realistic as possible to warrant such a large time commitment to my franchise.
Not meaning to knock the NCAA game, but a commitment to a more "sim-like" experience is the reason I choose Madden for the long haul. I'm thankful Ian, that you and your team haven't lost site of what brought Madden to the heights that it has seen through the years. That gamers look to the Madden game for enjoyment AND as much of a realistic video football gaming experience as possible.
We're on the right course Ian....full steam ahead!
# 77
spankdatazz22 @ 07/13/08 10:38 PM
I'll be brief; I know you're busy with NCAA stuff:
Agreed, which is why I said "you seem" - I wasn't making the assumption that you were [implying whatever]. I was just saying how it appeared to me. Regarding the marketing ploy statement, I never said I did/didn't believe it. I thought I said I felt you're sincere in wanting to interact with the community but that I could also see how the sudden EA dev involvement across the board has been beneficial from a marketing standpoint.
Cool, because it probably needed to be said.
We're likely arguing semantics. For me a great game is a unique achievement - any fun game can be classified as good, a special game is great. Imo NCAA/Madden '08 weren't even good - they had many more issues other than turnovers. I'd say '09's football games have a chance to be good despite their issues - it just remains to be seen what the games will be. If you feel Madden '09 will be great that's fine; just saying how I'd define differences between good/great.
Actually I'm less of a realism nut than many on the boards. I think there would be a lot of complaints from the hardcore if the game was purely realistic. I still laugh at how people wanted realism in Franchise mode and 2K did Weekly Prep for 2K4. Then people were saying "Ummm... that's too hard". I've said before - it's a lot easier to tolerate the game when it's positives outweigh it's negatives. If I took your hypothetical of QB play/WR/DB play/OL/DL play playing reasonably well versus the negatives you noted, then of course that would mean the game would be looked at positively.
But unfortunately it seems those gameplay facets will be issues again this year. It also needs to be understood we're factoring in that this is the 4th next gen Madden. If it were the first year or maybe even the second, these issues would be looked at differently. But for four years someone at Tiburon's looked at the completely awkward-looking QB play and has thought "that's good enough"? I'd be sitting here criticizing 2K if they still had the same stiff running animations four years running - I was disappointed when they didn't change the running animations significantly from 2K4 to 2K5. And I can cite any number of the game's other issues. But it's positives far outweighed it's negatives.
And of course every issue isn't a fundamental issue. I'm not talking about lack of sideline interaction, lack of penalties, lack of stat pop ups during the game, or some other fringe concern. We're talking about OL/DL interaction - pretty much the foundation of what occurs during any game. We're talking about QB play. WR/DB interaction. Tackling. Core player interaction. Madden's been weak in these areas and it's the reason the game has been viewed poorly. It's not just because the game has too many interceptions and fumbles.
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But unfortunately it seems those gameplay facets will be issues again this year. It also needs to be understood we're factoring in that this is the 4th next gen Madden. If it were the first year or maybe even the second, these issues would be looked at differently. But for four years someone at Tiburon's looked at the completely awkward-looking QB play and has thought "that's good enough"? I'd be sitting here criticizing 2K if they still had the same stiff running animations four years running - I was disappointed when they didn't change the running animations significantly from 2K4 to 2K5. And I can cite any number of the game's other issues. But it's positives far outweighed it's negatives.
And of course every issue isn't a fundamental issue. I'm not talking about lack of sideline interaction, lack of penalties, lack of stat pop ups during the game, or some other fringe concern. We're talking about OL/DL interaction - pretty much the foundation of what occurs during any game. We're talking about QB play. WR/DB interaction. Tackling. Core player interaction. Madden's been weak in these areas and it's the reason the game has been viewed poorly. It's not just because the game has too many interceptions and fumbles.
# 78
spankdatazz22 @ 07/13/08 10:40 PM
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Pretty interesting stuff, I'd like to chime in. I'm with these guys as "engine" and "the little things" are concerned. The difference between me and them though is that I usually try and stay positive even as I criticize the games flaws. I believe this is due to one reason, I have accepted that 2k is gone. I am willing to accept Tiburion's best effort which can result in a "good" game as I believe 09 will be and possibly a "great" game which 2010 should be. All that said, I don't expect mind blowing due to the fact I just don't think the Tiburion guys are as talented as 2k was. The Madden next gen engine they created shows it, and even when they get to their destination, we will still be left with just "great", not mind blowing.
To answer your question, Ian, will guys like spank have a hard time getting to a point where they will have a game where everything's perfect, I suspect it will be difficult as they will haven't accepted that 2k is gone forever. It is due to this fact that I refuse to even play 2k5 or 2k8 because there is no point. There is no future for 2k football. We have to learn to accept Tiburion's best and live with it. There is a term around here called "Madden Ball" basically it describes arcadey Madden style gameplay (high bullet pass anyone?) and no matter how great the game gets, to some, Madden Ball will never be good enough. Heck, even the legendary PS2 Madden 08 features it. Hope that answers your question.
To answer your question, Ian, will guys like spank have a hard time getting to a point where they will have a game where everything's perfect, I suspect it will be difficult as they will haven't accepted that 2k is gone forever. It is due to this fact that I refuse to even play 2k5 or 2k8 because there is no point. There is no future for 2k football. We have to learn to accept Tiburion's best and live with it. There is a term around here called "Madden Ball" basically it describes arcadey Madden style gameplay (high bullet pass anyone?) and no matter how great the game gets, to some, Madden Ball will never be good enough. Heck, even the legendary PS2 Madden 08 features it. Hope that answers your question.
# 80
spankdatazz22 @ 07/15/08 03:12 PM
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