Madden 09 News Post

Madden NFL 09 2008 Super Bowl Video (IGN)

07:33 PM - July 7, 2008 by deltroy

IGN has posted a super bowl video of Madden NFL 09.

Game: Madden NFL 09Reader Score: 7/10 - Vote Now
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Madden NFL 09 Videos

Member Comments

# 41 Rawdeal28 @ 07/11/08 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFuture15


	I think I've been straightforward from day 1 that our blocking is not where we want it to be for 09, along with a few other areas. What you are seeing is exactly what I mean in that respect...the animation "coverage" is just really sub-par. Luckily all the work VJ has done last year and this year has improved logic and AI quite substantially, but the animation selection is our big remaining problem. If a lack of true edge rushing looping animations and the possibility of synchronized OL get engaged moves are deal breakers for you, then I'd have to say 09 has all of that. However if you can get past those issues and take a look at the bigger picture, I think you'll be much more pleased. When I look at the game experience as a whole I feel we've definitely delivered a great product. As for Maroney and the monster stiff-arm, that is mainly an animation bug. He "won" the stiff-arm check but he played the "Super-Win" animation instead of playing a more subdued one. I will check on that and see if that actually is in the final build, and if it is, look into addressing it.

i can see the bigger picture so this is no problem to me. not a gamebreaker by any stretch of the imagination. most of the time when people are pointing out these problems are just the chosen animation like u said.

Ian, is it really difficult for you guys to get the game to always choose the right animation for each situation?? cuz alot of the problems people point out are because the game chooses the wrong animation to play out at certain times.

# 42 Exonerated @ 07/11/08 09:49 AM

Sorry for my fail attempt at sarcasm lol. Was trying to satirise the Ea haters.

Neways.

i saw nothin wrong with that clip. Without analysis every frame by frame. I didn't notice the 3 linemen in sync. Superficially, it was really good. The lighting is amazing and you can really feel the little person in big stadium feel. Like everyones looking at you.

Only thing i saw was maroney stiff arm which looked pretty hectic. I actually like the exaggerated skill sets that target the casual gamer. I'm fine with that stiff arm.

I don't really find nething wrong with those wwf big hits as well. I find them pretty cool when you lay it on someone. My friends that come over in a while would definitely appreciate those monstrous hits and exaggerated animations.

# 43 mastershake88 @ 07/11/08 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausar72


	Looks good.... I, for one, love the endzones with the Super Bowl logo, instead of the team logos (too confusing). Don't change that EA! Please!!!

um...no? thats not in real life...why would you want that still in the game I dont even know why they continue to do that its wrong.

# 44 mastershake88 @ 07/11/08 09:58 AM

i dont know how to say this but that endzone spiel got to be fixed like the way it was in nfl 2k5 with the teams name the afc or nfc logos... I think you guys know what I'm talking about these days.

# 45 kwas676 @ 07/11/08 06:13 PM

I'm not trying to be a jerk but some of you guys over saturate about little things, the whole endzone paint isn't a big deal, I didn't see the o line sync when they should the full game clip and as long as there working on it I'm cool knowing its gonna change.

# 46 Ian_Cummings @ 07/11/08 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exonerated


	Sorry for my fail attempt at sarcasm lol. Was trying to satirise the Ea haters.

Yeah I got your sarcasm...I wanted to quote you because you kind of echoed the point I wanted to drive home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rawdeal28


	Ian, is it really difficult for you guys to get the game to always choose the right animation for each situation?? cuz alot of the problems people point out are because the game chooses the wrong animation to play out at certain times.

The new wrap system helped our "animation matching" problem greatly for this year. Unfortunately we weren't able to fully utilize it for blocking moves yet. The good news is that it will make improvements easy in the future.

# 47 poster @ 07/11/08 10:07 PM

Thanks Ian for looking into the issue of a RB trucking a DT.

I also will say the team specific end zones in the Super Bowl badly need to be put back in. Much like NCAA bowl games with no end zone art, it just is not right and frustrates me. Thanks for listening.

# 48 spankdatazz22 @ 07/12/08 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFuture15


	If a lack of true edge rushing looping animations and the possibility of synchronized OL get engaged moves are deal breakers for you, then I'd have to say 09 has all of that. However if you can get past those issues and take a look at the bigger picture, I think you'll be much more pleased. When I look at the game experience as a whole I feel we've definitely delivered a great product. As for Maroney and the monster stiff-arm, that is mainly an animation bug. He "won" the stiff-arm check but he played the "Super-Win" animation instead of playing a more subdued one. I will check on that and see if that actually is in the final build, and if it is, look into addressing it.

We'll see, but I don't see how the game could be great when it's lacking in so many key fundamental areas. There's obviously nice things going on with the game, and the graphics pop. But the animations are very questionable at times. This video is a good example - it gives the game an unnatural and rehearsed feel. It's like the game is trying to call what the devs feel are "cool" animations, instead of appropriate ones - like defensive ends getting flipped for example. Let alone when they're getting flipped in unison. It's more like the offensive/defensive line is an afterthought where there's no individuality, little sense that these guys are engaging in their own individual battles while trying to work cohesively as a group. The game looks much improved, but if you have to throw out the caveat of looking past the OL/DL play, WR/DB play, QB play, etc., I don't see how the game is to a point where it can be considered great - at least from a gameplay standpoint

# 49 Ian_Cummings @ 07/12/08 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	We'll see, but I don't see how the game could be great when it's lacking in so many key fundamental areas. There's obviously nice things going on with the game, and the graphics pop. But the animations are very questionable at times. This video is a good example - it gives the game an unnatural and rehearsed feel. It's like the game is trying to call what the devs feel are "cool" animations, instead of appropriate ones - like defensive ends getting flipped for example. Let alone when they're getting flipped in unison. It's more like the offensive/defensive line is an afterthought where there's no individuality, little sense that these guys are engaging in their own individual battles while trying to work cohesively as a group. The game looks much improved, but if you have to throw out the caveat of looking past the OL/DL play, WR/DB play, QB play, etc., I don't see how the game is to a point where it can be considered great - at least from a gameplay standpoint

I guess I call a game that is fun to play a great game. Just wondering out loud if say we deliver those 3 things above in 2010, will you then point out some other fundamental area that you feel is lacking? Would I then see a post for Madden 2010 saying "Sure they have better OL/DL, WR/DB, and QB play, but the players still don't pile on to the ball when there is a fumble. How can EA consider this game great when they are lacking in such fundamental areas as this?"

What I mean is, (and not trying to sound condescending...trying to ask a valid question), will all the additions in the world ever outweigh the constant drive to be critical and push the game farther? Realistically...won't there always be something in real life that we just aren't simulating in a video game? Or do you think there will be a point where you are like "Holy Crap this is the game of my dreams...don't change anything!"?

# 50 Exonerated @ 07/12/08 08:08 AM

^^^^^

Yeah Agreed. Too many complainers for the sake of complaining.

The game is heading in the right direction. Add the same level of input and effort in future years as you did this year, and no one can fault you.

# 51 spankdatazz22 @ 07/12/08 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFuture15


	I guess I call a game that is fun to play a great game. Just wondering out loud if say we deliver those 3 things above in 2010, will you then point out some other fundamental area that you feel is lacking? Would I then see a post for Madden 2010 saying "Sure they have better OL/DL, WR/DB, and QB play, but the players still don't pile on to the ball when there is a fumble. How can EA consider this game great when they are lacking in such fundamental areas as this?"

Here's my problem with your statements: you seem to want to have things in all ways. You said yourself that there are somewhat significant issues that will need to be addressed next year and beyond in Madden - okay. You just said "if you can look past this...", which seems to me you're saying don't judge "this" because you're going to fix "this" next year. Or beyond. Why shouldn't "this" be judged for what it is now, not for what you're saying it will be? You're admitting the lineman are going to have synchronized reactions, that they're going to look scripted - and in the same breath you're saying look past that, don't judge the game on that because you'll fix it. That's what I have a problem with. No, it's not being said literally. But it's what seems to be being said, and I've heard this same mentality from more than a few posters here.

Not to put words in your mouth, but you seem to be trying to equate what I said about the various gameplay aspects as expecting perfection which is ridiculous. All I said was an observation - I don't see how this-this-this-and this can be admittedly wrong or not work the way you yourself have said you want it to work - but the game is great, as long as you look past those things because you've promised to fix them. For all I know, the game IS great - I'm just making an observation based on video we've seen. But when you have the excuses of "wrong animations getting called/that's why Maroney ran through a lineman with little effect to his forward trajectory" or you imply certain things shouldn't be judged because they're going to be fixed. At some point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFuture15


	What I mean is, (and not trying to sound condescending...trying to ask a valid question), will all the additions in the world ever outweigh the constant drive to be critical and push the game farther? Realistically...won't there always be something in real life that we just aren't simulating in a video game? Or do you think there will be a point where you are like "Holy Crap this is the game of my dreams...don't change anything!"?

I'm busy this a.m. so can't properly respond to your post. Needless to say, no one's expecting perfection. But look around you. If NBA2K8 had Tim Duncan taking off from the foul line and slam dunking like Michael Jordan, with regularity, then people would have a problem with that. Same with any number of examples in basketball or hockey. Part of this is about having a realistic expectation, which I feel I have. For me there's a big difference between moving in the right direction, and great.

# 52 K_GUN @ 07/12/08 09:45 AM

the longer one stairs at a painting the more imperfections one will find

leave the museum for a bit boys......you'll find more enjoyment afterwards

# 53 Exonerated @ 07/12/08 10:04 AM

^^^^^

So true

# 54 Ian_Cummings @ 07/12/08 10:44 AM

DELETE: Double post

# 55 Ian_Cummings @ 07/12/08 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	You just said "if you can look past this...", which seems to me you're saying don't judge "this" because you're going to fix "this" next year. Or beyond. Why shouldn't "this" be judged for what it is now, not for what you're saying it will be? You're admitting the lineman are going to have synchronized reactions, that they're going to look scripted - and in the same breath you're saying look past that, don't judge the game on that because you'll fix it. That's what I have a problem with. No, it's not being said literally.

Number 1, it's probably not a good idea to make assumptions on what I'm thinking or expecting based on written posts. You are saying things like "you seem" to be doing this...all kinds of tone is lost in this virtual world. If it's not being said literally, then you probably shouldn't try to infer it. Though this is kind of ironic though because when I did actually spell something out literally, you didn't believe it (re: thinking I am here as a marketing ploy).

To make sure I'm clear, I don't want anyone on these forums to give Madden a pass on anything. I've stated this many times before. I want everyone to be honest, and brutally honest if they so feel. You aren't going to scare me away. I have said this multiple times...don't buy the game if you these issue are deal breakers for you. And even if they aren't feel free to post all you want about issues that bug you.

For this post specifically, to clarify I am not saying "don't judge our game because I'm looking into fixing it for the future". That sucks if that is what was implied, but that's what written text can do I suppose - lose the message. All I am saying is that I feel it's a great video game - and that's because of the sum of it's parts, regardless of those 2 issues you saw in the video.

A great game to me is a fun game, as long as the problems that may be there don't detract too much from the game experience. Madden 08 and NCAA 08 were not GREAT games because turnovers are glaring problems that in turn make the game not fun to play. Tecmo Bowl is a GREAT game, but that's because I enjoyed the whole experience and ignored the fact that you could drop back and throw it 100 yards from one endzone to the other, or that I could chase down any player with Lawrence Taylor even if they had a 50 yard head start.

I know you expect realism...I do too. But again, this is my serious question to you personally...try to envision a game where the 2 issues in this video are fixed, the OL/DL play is awesome, the WR/DB play is more finely tuned, and the QB control and animations are spot on. After seeing videos of all of the above, would your posts then be about the lack of pile-ups, or the fact that sideline catches aren't triggering frequently enough, or that players aren't slipping and falling enough in the rain? Or would your posts be about how you can't believe how this is actually a great game?

Do you see what I'm getting at? In a nutshell...can I ever meet your expectations? Your knee-jerk reaction will likely be to post something like "of course you can...just make a realistic football game without all these fundamental issues" - but I'm asking you to think deeper...is every issue you see going to be a "fundamental" issue for you?

# 56 fsu851 @ 07/12/08 04:27 PM

i cant wait to play madden ,first time in about 2years

# 57 Rawdeal28 @ 07/12/08 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFuture15


	Number 1, it's probably not a good idea to make assumptions on what I'm thinking or expecting based on written posts. You are saying things like "you seem" to be doing this...all kinds of tone is lost in this virtual world. If it's not being said literally, then you probably shouldn't try to infer it. Though this is kind of ironic though because when I did actually spell something out literally, you didn't believe it (re: thinking I am here as a marketing ploy). To make sure I'm clear, I don't want anyone on these forums to give Madden a pass on anything. I've stated this many times before. I want everyone to be honest, and brutally honest if they so feel. You aren't going to scare me away. I have said this multiple times...don't buy the game if you these issue are deal breakers for you. And even if they aren't feel free to post all you want about issues that bug you. For this post specifically, to clarify I am not saying "don't judge our game because I'm looking into fixing it for the future". That sucks if that is what was implied, but that's what written text can do I suppose - lose the message. All I am saying is that I feel it's a great video game - and that's because of the sum of it's parts, regardless of those 2 issues you saw in the video. A great game to me is a fun game, as long as the problems that may be there don't detract too much from the game experience. Madden 08 and NCAA 08 were not GREAT games because turnovers are glaring problems that in turn make the game not fun to play. Tecmo Bowl is a GREAT game, but that's because I enjoyed the whole experience and ignored the fact that you could drop back and throw it 100 yards from one endzone to the other, or that I could chase down any player with Lawrence Taylor even if they had a 50 yard head start. I know you expect realism...I do too. But again, this is my serious question to you personally...try to envision a game where the 2 issues in this video are fixed, the OL/DL play is awesome, the WR/DB play is more finely tuned, and the QB control and animations are spot on. After seeing videos of all of the above, would your posts then be about the lack of pile-ups, or the fact that sideline catches aren't triggering frequently enough, or that players aren't slipping and falling enough in the rain? Or would your posts be about how you can't believe how this is actually a great game? Do you see what I'm getting at? In a nutshell...can I ever meet your expectations? Your knee-jerk reaction will likely be to post something like "of course you can...just make a realistic football game without all these fundamental issues" - but I'm asking you to think deeper...is every issue you see going to be a "fundamental" issue for you?

Ian, Spankdatazzz and people like him will always find something to criticize. i mean look at the uniform errors thread. unless u guys give the team the wrong color pants, jersey, or helmet i never noticed anything else and i played 08 extensively when i first got it last year. u got people going haywire over socks and shoes

and stuff. although i am glad alot of the errors got fixed.

point is, alot of people bypass the positive and focus on the negative. they will always find a fundamental issue with things. as for me, as long as the negatives arent gamebreakers like last year (i.e. the franchise bug, turnover issue, and and QB throwing too many INT's) im good. but i do look at positives and most people arent like that.

# 58 Rawdeal28 @ 07/12/08 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxMan1000


	This is some interesting stuff. I'd like to chime in... The only difference I see though, is that back then I think gamers expectations were much different, and advances were rather pedestrian as opposed to say the jumps we got in games from 16-bit to 32 or 32/64 to 128. Compared to what preceeded Tecmo Bowl on consoles, Tecmo Bowl was the clear cut next level game for it's time until Madden really took off. And even after, Tecmo Super Bowl made a really huge impact to the point that it went down as a GOAT game. The problem for Madden (and I think the source of a lot of criticism from hardcore Madden players) is that at this point in history it's not only having to stand up to the legacy it built during it's renaissance period of the 1990's, but also against later franchises that broke the mold and made a lasting historical mark (NFL 2K5). Even more, many hold the belief that the last gen Madden is still a better game. I personally feel the game controls better now than last gen. Last year, glitches killed the game, but the core of what it was in terms of gameplay feel, played and moved smoother than any Madden before it. I put in bold the part that stood out to me. See, things like that could use a slider. I know I sound like a broken record (lol), but the more ways we can control the game, the better the experience will be for each individual player. There will always be people (myself included) who'll say this or that happens too much or too little because we have little or no control over its frequency. I'll even step out and say that a great deal of suggestions and complaints have to do with "too much or too little". But with more sliders and more turn on/turn offs the complaints will become fewer because now the control will be in the users hands... If players slip too much or too little, with options it'll be up to the end user to make the adjustment to get it where he wants it. User doesn't like the color vividness, or picture brightness/darkness/contrast? If the user has options, the user can fix it himself. User doesn't think the game is fast enough or slow enough or medium enough (lol)? Speed slider... user fix. And as long as the options and sliders have the intended effect on what it's supposed to effect (in other words, the sliders do what they're programmed to do), I truly believe people will have fewer complaints about those things and I say that because of this; in Madden '08, the fumble issue was a big deal for many people. Even turning things down to '0' had no effect, so people still complained, and now the complaint became "I turned it down to '0' and it STILL didn't do anything!" I might be rambling a bit, but I hope I'm making sense I just think leaving the user more control as fail-safe's may not only make a lot more people happy, but it may also take a lot of the yearly pressure off of you guys in terms of the impossibility of knowing how 6 Million+ people will take to a concrete feature that can't be modified. I'd be a nervous wreck about that myself, lol.

very good post. i cant argue with that playa!

# 59 Ian_Cummings @ 07/12/08 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxMan1000


	This is some interesting stuff. I'd like to chime in... The only difference I see though, is that back then I think gamers expectations were much different, and advances were rather pedestrian as opposed to say the jumps we got in games from 16-bit to 32 or 32/64 to 128. Compared to what preceeded Tecmo Bowl on consoles, Tecmo Bowl was the clear cut next level game for it's time until Madden really took off. And even after, Tecmo Super Bowl made a really huge impact to the point that it went down as a GOAT game. The problem for Madden (and I think the source of a lot of criticism from hardcore Madden players) is that at this point in history it's not only having to stand up to the legacy it built during it's renaissance period of the 1990's, but also against later franchises that broke the mold and made a lasting historical mark (NFL 2K5). Even more, many hold the belief that the last gen Madden is still a better game. I personally feel the game controls better now than last gen. Last year, glitches killed the game, but the core of what it was in terms of gameplay feel, played and moved smoother than any Madden before it. I put in bold the part that stood out to me. See, things like that could use a slider. I know I sound like a broken record (lol), but the more ways we can control the game, the better the experience will be for each individual player. There will always be people (myself included) who'll say this or that happens too much or too little because we have little or no control over its frequency. I'll even step out and say that a great deal of suggestions and complaints have to do with "too much or too little". But with more sliders and more turn on/turn offs the complaints will become fewer because now the control will be in the users hands... If players slip too much or too little, with options it'll be up to the end user to make the adjustment to get it where he wants it. User doesn't like the color vividness, or picture brightness/darkness/contrast? If the user has options, the user can fix it himself. User doesn't think the game is fast enough or slow enough or medium enough (lol)? Speed slider... user fix. And as long as the options and sliders have the intended effect on what it's supposed to effect (in other words, the sliders do what they're programmed to do), I truly believe people will have fewer complaints about those things and I say that because of this; in Madden '08, the fumble issue was a big deal for many people. Even turning things down to '0' had no effect, so people still complained, and now the complaint became "I turned it down to '0' and it STILL didn't do anything!" I might be rambling a bit, but I hope I'm making sense I just think leaving the user more control as fail-safe's may not only make a lot more people happy, but it may also take a lot of the yearly pressure off of you guys in terms of the impossibility of knowing how 6 Million+ people will take to a concrete feature that can't be modified. I'd be a nervous wreck about that myself, lol.

All valid points. I definitely understand where the criticism is coming from, and there's nothing wrong with that.

What I'm trying to do though is dig to the bottom - if someone will not accept a game as being good or improved if a "fundamental" issue is not addressed, this to me is an easy cop-out to always be disappointed with the game, because no matter what I'm assuming there will always be an issue that could be categorized as "fundamental". It's still a video game, and I don't foresee any time in the near future us programming an exact representation of the NFL. I'm going to make it awesome and realistic...but it will never be EXACT...ya know?

Am I making sense here, or am I just rambling?

# 60 Agame @ 07/12/08 08:39 PM

I know you expect realism...I do too. But again, this is my serious question to you personally...try to envision a game where the 2 issues in this video are fixed, the OL/DL play is awesome, the WR/DB play is more finely tuned, and the QB control and animations are spot on. After seeing videos of all of the above��

I think I would have an orgasm!

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