jdareal21's Blog
Well maybe not bashing, see I do, in fact, love watching Lebron play. But don't make excuses for Lebron James, there's none that would suffice anyway. He is supremely talented, the most gifted athlete the NBA's ever seen. But by no means is he the best player in the game....not yet.
Lebron to me is the equivalent of Peyton Manning in basketball shorts. Two athletes who can produce astronomical stats that tend to lead the media & fans alike to crown them among the greatest of all times. Hold on...not so fast
.First of all, let's stop with the Jordan-Lebron comparisons, it's a whole new era, and regardless of how clouded your memory may be, Michael Jordan, like Kobe Bryant as well, would struggle against this Celtic defense, and your kidding yourself if you think otherwise. But let's cut to the chase and get down to business.
- No, what Lebron did in Game 5 is not the same as what Kobe did in Game 7 against the Suns in 2006. Kobe was coming off of being ridiculed by his coach, his team & the media, for shooting too much in an overtime loss in Game 6. A game in which he scored 50 pts. For someone who's been criticized as a me-first, selfish player his whole career, for someone who played out of his mind (alongside Smush & Kwame no less) to even force a Game 7, his sensitivity to the backlash, while not condoned, is at least understandable.
On the other hand, no one on Earth has ever called Lebron selfish, in fact, it's his ability to "make his team better" that everyone cites as the sole reason he's supposedly the best in the game. Actually, everyone encouraged Lebron to shoot more, to be more aggressive, after his lackluster Game 4 display. And he proceeded to sleepwalk through the whole entire game. Kobe & the Lakers against the Suns in '06 weren't expected to win anything, let alone the title. Lebron and these Cavaliers had the best record, two years straight. You don't do that if your team is complete garbage, like most people seem to believe now.
- No, Don't talk to me about stats either. We need to remember that sometimes, stats can be misleading. Lebron, like Peyton Manning, dominates his offense in a way that allows for huge numbers, but not necessarily postseason stability. Also, Kobe came in the league having to work himself into the rotation, and then he had to work with Shaq, while Lebron, like Jordan before him, came into the league with free reign over abysmal teams. They were allowed to jack up as many shots as they wanted, and earn the accolades and stats that go with it. If Kobe was given that opportunity, he may not have 4 rings, but he would sure as hell be statistically far superior to what he is now, which still isn't too shabby.
The Cavs offense, regardless of Mike Brown's ineffectiveness, revolves around Lebron isolating at the top of the key looking to create. This allows him to dish out of traffic to a team full of spot up shooters, thus, creating big assist numbers. Is that truly making his teammates better? I don't know, they made it to the NBA because of their shooting ability, so I think at best, he creates an environment for them to utilize that skill. There's no such thing as "making someone better" at a sport. Passing the ball to someone who can't do anything with it won't make them any better, you can throw an alley-oop to someone in a wheelchair to test this statement if you wish.
At 6'9, 250 lbs (depending on lunch) Lebron should be pulling down 8+ rebounds a game, after all, he is a forward, and he's in position around the paint to do so. Likewise, Rajon Rondo doing that is much more impressive, standing at 6'0 and weighing little over 175 lbs, but nobody is rushing to call him the best in the game. You place Lebron in a true offense, like the triangle, that is predicated on everyone touching the ball and making decisions, and his assists go way down. Put the ball in Kobe's hands, isolate him at the top of the key every possession, and tell him to create, and I guarantee you his assists go up. Either that or he scores 81 pts.
-Yes, let's talk about actual Basketball skills. Substance, not style. Actual perimeter defense, not running up and blocking shots from players you let get by you in the first place. Looking at this series, it's painfully obvious that, for someone of Lebron's stature, he is severely lacking in two key areas. His mid-range game, and his post up game. It's inexcusable that someone that size has yet to develop low post moves. It's almost as criminal as Dwight Howard's "big man" skill set. Everything with Lebron is either a long three, for which he has shown time and again his inconsistency, or drives to the basket, which will diminish rapidly as soon as his physical gifts give way. Pull up any footage you can find of Lebron guarding Kobe, and you'll witness the strange difference. Kobe Bryant can post Lebron James up, and has success doing it. His footwork, shooting ability and anticipation is why he's able to do that to someone bigger, stronger, and faster, skills that Lebron better hone if he ever hopes to win when it matters.
To put it plainly, Lebron is a physical specimen who has yet to fully develop the necessary skills to elevate to the next level. It's not the team, or the coach, that stopped Lebron from beating the Celts. It was his game. Yeah I'm bias, but the utter disrespect to Kobe Bryant that he's faced his whole career is insane. Sure he played with Shaq, and fought off the Pacers on a sprained ankle in the Finals while Shaq was on the bench fouled out in a pivotal game. Yeah, he played with Shaq, and also happened to average 30 points as the "secondary" option during that second title run. Yup, he played with Shaq, and was also the sole reason Shaq and company weren't swept against the Pistons in the Finals. You want to continue to downgrade him for sacrificing his game to win titles with Shaq, fine, get back to me after he finishes another 3-peat...
# 1
greenbull50 @ May 14
You have got to be kidding me. You say if Lebron played in a"normal" offense, he wouldn't score as many points or have stats that are so good, which is true. But the only reason that their offense is"get it to Lebron", is, quite frankly, because the rest of the team is crappy. EVERY single night, Lebron has to be on his best game, or the cav's are probably going to lose. When Kobe broke his hand, and was out a few weeks, the laker's were FINE. That's because the Lakers have a great TEAM. The Cav's have a great PLAYER. If lebron was out for 2-3 weeks, the Cav's would be a bottom half of the conference type of team. Winning titles means you have a Great team. The Cavs arent a great team. The lakers are. If Lebron and Kobe swapped teams, the lakers would win almost EVERY year, because lebron is flat out better than Kobe. You compare Lebron to Peyton Manning, which is actually kind of pointless, becasue manning has a ring. How 'bout comparing him to Dan Marino. I'd call him a legend. Do you know how many ring's he had?....... No more than Lebrons got right now, and lebrons only 25.
# 2
jdareal21 @ May 14
First of all, I compare Lebron to Peyton because of their regular season stats in comparison to their postseason play, if you do your research you would know that the year Peyton actually won the ring was the worst statistical postseason of his career, they won in spite of him because of good defense, not because of him.
You also don't have back to back best records in the NBA by yourself, I don't care who you are. Just last week Lebron had all the pieces, now after they get punked, everybody's crying about his team, it's just an excuse plain and simple. You want to compare teams, let's compare them:
Derek Fisher isn't a starting pg on any other team in the NBA OTHER THAN the Lakers. Matter of fact, name me just 3. It's alright, I'll wait....
Pau Gasol, just two years ago, was known as the softest center in the league. Miraculously, after one title run, now he's some hall of famer? No, he's good in this system playing WITH Kobe. Send him back to Memphis, and he'll be just what he was before he came to LA, a decent center
Bynum's been injured every single year of his career. This is his best year, and he's averaging just 15 pts, the same amount of Mo Williams
Lamar Odom shows up to play when he feels like it, and routinely has that spaced out look your boy Lebron had a few nights ago
And the rest of the team is absolute garbage, the bench is the worst left in the playoffs, which is why Phil only has a 7-8 man rotation
Look at the Cavs:
Antawn Jamison is a 2 time all star and just 3 yrs ago averaged 32 ppg. Just because he shrunk in the big lights doesn't mean he's terrible
Mo williams is an all-star who made it possible for the Cavs to even have a game 6 when he saved the day in game 1, not to mention he had 20 pts in the first half yesterday
Shaquille O'neal wasn't stolen, he was persuaded to come, and they all wanted him, it's not his fault if he wasn't used properly. Perennial All star and hall of famer by the way
And the rest of the team goes about 9-10 deep with Delonte, Varajeo, Hickson, Moon, Ilgauskas & Parker. A WAY DEEPER team than the Lakers.
And routinely teams play better and rise to the occasion without their star players. Just last yr the Rockets pushed it to a game 7 without Yao or Mcgrady, you mean to tell me their a better team without them? On top of that, Kobe wasn't out a few weeks, it was a week, and it wasn't his hand, which he's been playing with banged up for two years, it was his ankle & knee. And the one game they actually played a good team (the Celtics) they lost
You also don't have back to back best records in the NBA by yourself, I don't care who you are. Just last week Lebron had all the pieces, now after they get punked, everybody's crying about his team, it's just an excuse plain and simple. You want to compare teams, let's compare them:
Derek Fisher isn't a starting pg on any other team in the NBA OTHER THAN the Lakers. Matter of fact, name me just 3. It's alright, I'll wait....
Pau Gasol, just two years ago, was known as the softest center in the league. Miraculously, after one title run, now he's some hall of famer? No, he's good in this system playing WITH Kobe. Send him back to Memphis, and he'll be just what he was before he came to LA, a decent center
Bynum's been injured every single year of his career. This is his best year, and he's averaging just 15 pts, the same amount of Mo Williams
Lamar Odom shows up to play when he feels like it, and routinely has that spaced out look your boy Lebron had a few nights ago
And the rest of the team is absolute garbage, the bench is the worst left in the playoffs, which is why Phil only has a 7-8 man rotation
Look at the Cavs:
Antawn Jamison is a 2 time all star and just 3 yrs ago averaged 32 ppg. Just because he shrunk in the big lights doesn't mean he's terrible
Mo williams is an all-star who made it possible for the Cavs to even have a game 6 when he saved the day in game 1, not to mention he had 20 pts in the first half yesterday
Shaquille O'neal wasn't stolen, he was persuaded to come, and they all wanted him, it's not his fault if he wasn't used properly. Perennial All star and hall of famer by the way
And the rest of the team goes about 9-10 deep with Delonte, Varajeo, Hickson, Moon, Ilgauskas & Parker. A WAY DEEPER team than the Lakers.
And routinely teams play better and rise to the occasion without their star players. Just last yr the Rockets pushed it to a game 7 without Yao or Mcgrady, you mean to tell me their a better team without them? On top of that, Kobe wasn't out a few weeks, it was a week, and it wasn't his hand, which he's been playing with banged up for two years, it was his ankle & knee. And the one game they actually played a good team (the Celtics) they lost
# 3
jdareal21 @ May 15
Oh, and how could I forget Kobe having to save this "great team" damn near 7 times this year. Take those game winners away, and they're the 4th seed
# 4
ChampN252 @ May 15
I just feel Lebron doesn't really try his hardest when he plays. There is probably literately no one that could stop him if he played his fullest. I've seen games where it looks like he's hold back.
# 5
jdareal21 @ May 15
I just don't see how anybody can honestly look at Kobe's game and not conclude that he has the most refined skillset ever, including Jordan. Yeah, he modeled his game after MJ, which makes sense because they're the same size, but I've seen moves Kobe perform that Michael never did, and never had to. Reverse pivots from the post, his jumper is more pure, his dribble is better, I mean what else does the man have to do? So what, he's not a fun loving, great guy to talk to, is that what it's about? Because when it's all said and done, he'll have at least 6 rings, you can bet on that. And if he had to play against Byron Russell, or Danny Ainge, or Terry Porter in the Finals like Jordan did, I doubt he would have any trouble destroying them
# 6
marq @ May 17
Shock blog? Please stop the MJ comparisons, you can never truly win that argument when there are things like facts, numbers, and circumstances. ALso, stop trying to belittle the Pau Gasol acquisition. He was the focal point of 3 playoff teams and an all-star before the trade to the LAkers. IT was no secret around the league that Memphis gift wrapped a dominant post player to LA. Kobe tried winning like MJ did (lack of dominant post player, focal point of offense, role players filling out roster) and couldn't. Hell, even with Pau, his team blew a 25 point lead AT HOME in the FINALS and Lost the series clinching game by 39 POINTS. And talk to me after Kobe shoots 50% ONE time in his career...
# 7
jdareal21 @ May 17
@marq, there's nothing shocking about this blog, it's what I've been saying the last 5 years, it's truth.
I don't belittle Pau Gasol anymore than people belittle Scottie Pippen. Instead of elevating the Jordan myth more than analyzing his actual skills, answer the questions posed.
- Scottie Pippen was the best all around player in the league after Jordan, if he wasn't, then who was?
- Kobe was shooting over 50% this yr BEFORE he broke his finger, why? Because he started playing the post, like Jordan did most of his career, which explains the higher percentage, it doesn't mean Jordan is a better player skillwise, how could it? Shaq has one of the highest FG% of all time, much higher than Jordan's in fact, so I guess he's better right? Kobe was more perimeter oriented than MJ ever was because he had a better perimeter game, period.
- And why isn't Kareem Abdul Jabbar criticized for not playing in the Game 6 Finals game that Magic Johnson won for him playing at his position? And Kareem was the MVP that season!! A rookie came in, played his position, and won the ring without him being on the floor, is Kareem any less great because of that?
Talk to me after your logically answer any of that instead of being blinded by the fact that Jordan dominated a physically inferior era of basketball in comparison to what Kobe faces night in and night out. Place Jordan in the Finals against that Celtics team, and he'll struggle too, Place Kobe against Byron Russell 1 on 1, or Danny Ainge, or Terry Porter, and he'll demolish them. With ease.
I don't belittle Pau Gasol anymore than people belittle Scottie Pippen. Instead of elevating the Jordan myth more than analyzing his actual skills, answer the questions posed.
- Scottie Pippen was the best all around player in the league after Jordan, if he wasn't, then who was?
- Kobe was shooting over 50% this yr BEFORE he broke his finger, why? Because he started playing the post, like Jordan did most of his career, which explains the higher percentage, it doesn't mean Jordan is a better player skillwise, how could it? Shaq has one of the highest FG% of all time, much higher than Jordan's in fact, so I guess he's better right? Kobe was more perimeter oriented than MJ ever was because he had a better perimeter game, period.
- And why isn't Kareem Abdul Jabbar criticized for not playing in the Game 6 Finals game that Magic Johnson won for him playing at his position? And Kareem was the MVP that season!! A rookie came in, played his position, and won the ring without him being on the floor, is Kareem any less great because of that?
Talk to me after your logically answer any of that instead of being blinded by the fact that Jordan dominated a physically inferior era of basketball in comparison to what Kobe faces night in and night out. Place Jordan in the Finals against that Celtics team, and he'll struggle too, Place Kobe against Byron Russell 1 on 1, or Danny Ainge, or Terry Porter, and he'll demolish them. With ease.
# 8
marq @ May 17
@Jdareal21, I REALLY didn't want to get involved too deeply in this blog because your assertions are decidedly one sided, but here it goes...Logically:
Pippen grew into the all-around player that he was as a result of playing next to and being second banana to Jordan. He played very well in his role and deferred to MJ at every turn. His lack of leadership capability as a #1 has been well known for years. While he was an all-star in 1990, he was not in 1991, but became an all-star staple after that first championship season. Pippen was a notorious no-show in big playoff games/moments. Do we not remember the '94 Bulls when Pippen disappeared against the Knicks in EVERY FOURTH QUARTER? Without the MJ bailout, who knows how Pippen's career turns out. Just saying that he was not a ready-made star like Gasol or Shaq.
Um, I don't know what the significance of Kobe shooting 50% for a portion of ONE season has to do with anything. He is playing in an era of non-handchecking with supposedly better offensive skills so why can't he shoot CLOSE to 50%? He's never been close, not even in the playoffs. The shooting percentage comparison between Shaq and Jordan mean nothing because Shaq is a center who plays close to the basket. Jordan and Kobe play the same position. Kobe was the second option in the same offense in which Jordan dominated at the SAME POSITION while facing double and triple teams in a tougher, more physical era, so why does he shoot at a higher percentage? Without the last two Wizards years, Jordan retires at 50%.
What does Kareem have to do with anything? Yes, he suffered a SEVERE Ankle sprain. He could not play. Why is that an issue? What point does it have in this discussion? By that time, Kareem had 1 title as THE MAN, 1 Finals MVP and 6 MVPs.
I also don't think that the era MJ dominated was inferior. In fact, the teams of that era were deeper than the teams now.
they went 8 deep. You will never see TEAMS like those Celtics, Lakers, Blazers, Suns, Pistons, etc. With the injures Kobe suffers/plays with now, what would make you think he would withstand the beatings that would be dished out by the Pistons/Knicks, etc.? And nothing against the 08 Champion Celtics, but Jordan played plenty of great Defensive players and teams, but he didn't struggle like Kobe.
And what is your fixation with 1-on-1 basketball? It's a team game. You talk about guards who did not check Jordan. Jordan was not Ainge's or Porter's assignment. You talk as if Courtney Lee, Kerry Kittles, Aaron Mckie/Eric Snow, Jalen Rose (I'm a Michigan Man, I Love Jalen, but c'mon) were some sort of defensive force.
Jordan's teams beat Hall-of-Fame and ALL TIME players in their primes! He denied ALL TIME GREATS from winning rings! Not saying Kobe isn't great on his own, but he is not on Jordan's level. Just leave it alone...
Pippen grew into the all-around player that he was as a result of playing next to and being second banana to Jordan. He played very well in his role and deferred to MJ at every turn. His lack of leadership capability as a #1 has been well known for years. While he was an all-star in 1990, he was not in 1991, but became an all-star staple after that first championship season. Pippen was a notorious no-show in big playoff games/moments. Do we not remember the '94 Bulls when Pippen disappeared against the Knicks in EVERY FOURTH QUARTER? Without the MJ bailout, who knows how Pippen's career turns out. Just saying that he was not a ready-made star like Gasol or Shaq.
Um, I don't know what the significance of Kobe shooting 50% for a portion of ONE season has to do with anything. He is playing in an era of non-handchecking with supposedly better offensive skills so why can't he shoot CLOSE to 50%? He's never been close, not even in the playoffs. The shooting percentage comparison between Shaq and Jordan mean nothing because Shaq is a center who plays close to the basket. Jordan and Kobe play the same position. Kobe was the second option in the same offense in which Jordan dominated at the SAME POSITION while facing double and triple teams in a tougher, more physical era, so why does he shoot at a higher percentage? Without the last two Wizards years, Jordan retires at 50%.
What does Kareem have to do with anything? Yes, he suffered a SEVERE Ankle sprain. He could not play. Why is that an issue? What point does it have in this discussion? By that time, Kareem had 1 title as THE MAN, 1 Finals MVP and 6 MVPs.
I also don't think that the era MJ dominated was inferior. In fact, the teams of that era were deeper than the teams now.
they went 8 deep. You will never see TEAMS like those Celtics, Lakers, Blazers, Suns, Pistons, etc. With the injures Kobe suffers/plays with now, what would make you think he would withstand the beatings that would be dished out by the Pistons/Knicks, etc.? And nothing against the 08 Champion Celtics, but Jordan played plenty of great Defensive players and teams, but he didn't struggle like Kobe.
And what is your fixation with 1-on-1 basketball? It's a team game. You talk about guards who did not check Jordan. Jordan was not Ainge's or Porter's assignment. You talk as if Courtney Lee, Kerry Kittles, Aaron Mckie/Eric Snow, Jalen Rose (I'm a Michigan Man, I Love Jalen, but c'mon) were some sort of defensive force.
Jordan's teams beat Hall-of-Fame and ALL TIME players in their primes! He denied ALL TIME GREATS from winning rings! Not saying Kobe isn't great on his own, but he is not on Jordan's level. Just leave it alone...
# 9
jdareal21 @ May 17
@ManOnTheMoon, lol, I'm definitely bias but I know I can back up what I'm saying. Most people get offended, but they don't back it up with anything logical. I have the utmost respect for what Lebron does, and nobody was a bigger Jordan fan than I was, but I'm not just going to blindly agree with something if I do my homework and it doesn't check out.
As far as Lebron goes, I'm confident this will do nothing but help him in the long run, and he will win, probably more than once, but to say he's the best right now, and he's not even the guy you would want in the clutch, when it's most important, is asinine to me.
As far as Jordan goes, he's the greatest LEADER ever, the greatest ambassador for the game, he revolutionized the game, he dominated his era, but to say he's a better SKILLED player than Kobe is nuts. I don't think anybody would argue that Jim Brown wouldn't dominate if he played in the NFL of today, but for some reason, people think Jordan would walk through bigger, faster, more athletic competition that spawned from him. Then in the same breath, they act as if Kobe Bryant wouldn't annihilate every single defender Jordan ever saw in the Finals. Danny Ainge, Terry Porter, Byron Russell (Twice), a washed up Lakers squad & a small Gary Payton? You mean to tell me he wouldn't throttle these guys?!! Please
As far as Lebron goes, I'm confident this will do nothing but help him in the long run, and he will win, probably more than once, but to say he's the best right now, and he's not even the guy you would want in the clutch, when it's most important, is asinine to me.
As far as Jordan goes, he's the greatest LEADER ever, the greatest ambassador for the game, he revolutionized the game, he dominated his era, but to say he's a better SKILLED player than Kobe is nuts. I don't think anybody would argue that Jim Brown wouldn't dominate if he played in the NFL of today, but for some reason, people think Jordan would walk through bigger, faster, more athletic competition that spawned from him. Then in the same breath, they act as if Kobe Bryant wouldn't annihilate every single defender Jordan ever saw in the Finals. Danny Ainge, Terry Porter, Byron Russell (Twice), a washed up Lakers squad & a small Gary Payton? You mean to tell me he wouldn't throttle these guys?!! Please
# 10
jdareal21 @ May 17
@Marq, where do we begin:
1) I never said Pippen was a great leader, that was his weakness, but I am saying as far as being an all around player, he was the second best after Jordan, and if the refs didn't call a bogus foul in Game 5 against the Knicks the year after Jordan left the 1st time, the Bulls could've made it to the Conference Finals. Nothing to sneeze at.
And please explain to me how Gasol is a ready made star? He's a skilled big man who was, and still is, soft. So soft that he was the main reason for the Celtics winning in '08. Everybody bashed him, now he's some terror?
2) The significance of Kobe shooting 50% to start this season is what I explained in the first response, this was his first year transitioning to playing the low-post more. You say that comparing Shaq's FG% to Jordan's is irrelevant because Shaq played closer to the basket, well...that's my point. Jordan played the low-post of the Triangle much more than Kobe ever did throughout his career, hence the better shooting %. The first year Kobe moved into that position, it's no coincidence he was shooting the same % as MJ. They play the same position but in the Triangle, there's different areas the SG can play, Kobe's perimeter shot is better so he always played further away. Since his athleticism is waning, he made the switch and got with Hakeem Olajuwon and got even better. Somehow.
Oh and let's not forget, your "tougher" more "physical" era didn't allow zone defense, something that can be pretty tough as well.
3) Kareem has to do with the argument your trying to make about Kobe somehow being taken for a championship ride with the almighty Shaq, and now from your comments, I guess Gasol. The point being, Kareem is an all time great, one of the best Centers of all time, and nobody seems to mind that Magic Johnson won that title without him being anywhere on the Court. Nobody seems to mind that Larry Bird played with not only Robert Parrish but Kevin Mchale, but mention Kobe, and Shaq seems to be the sole reason for his first 3 rings, even though Kobe averaged 30 ppg, saved them from numerous losses while Shaq was fouled out, and fed the big man with more dimes than any other guard he's ever played with in his life.
4) Those teams in the late 80's-90's WERE GREAT, there's no disputing that, but they also weren't nearly the physical specimen that Jordan was. Jordan was similar to Lebron in that fact, every night he was guaranteed to be the best athlete on the floor. Those old players were fundamentally sound, and played the game right, which is why they're great, but Jordan never wrestled with anybody with more athleticism, size and/or agility on a nightly basis like Kobe does. Was John Stockton or Jeff Hornacek really a threat to Jordan, even at 35 years of age? C'mon!!
Jordan didn't have to worry about wrestling with someone the size and skill of Carmelo Anthony like Kobe did last yr, and he was still dropping 40 on the other end. MJ didn't have to stare down Lebron James, or deal with a Kevin Durant, or a prime KG or even a old KG, a 7 footer who plays the perimeter and guards the perimeter. The list goes on, these guys are physical beasts that simply didn't exist in Jordan's era. In fact the first time he ever saw someone like Allen Iverson, someone faster than he ever dealt with...well....we all saw what happened.
5) You seem to have the fixation on 1-on-1 until it's not convenient. You don't mention that it's a team game when you talk about Jordan, you talk about everything he did, alone. I bring up Scottie Pippen, you act as if he was some sort of afterthought. So then I talk about Kobe's singular game, you quickly bring up Shaq/Gasol, so which is it? Kobe is more than just on Jordan's level, in terms of overall basketball SKILL, ability with a ball in your hand, the things he can do on the court, he's surpassed that. A while ago. And he had to, to be this good in this era with bigger stronger more athletic players. And the world knows it, whether they choose to accept it or not...
1) I never said Pippen was a great leader, that was his weakness, but I am saying as far as being an all around player, he was the second best after Jordan, and if the refs didn't call a bogus foul in Game 5 against the Knicks the year after Jordan left the 1st time, the Bulls could've made it to the Conference Finals. Nothing to sneeze at.
And please explain to me how Gasol is a ready made star? He's a skilled big man who was, and still is, soft. So soft that he was the main reason for the Celtics winning in '08. Everybody bashed him, now he's some terror?
2) The significance of Kobe shooting 50% to start this season is what I explained in the first response, this was his first year transitioning to playing the low-post more. You say that comparing Shaq's FG% to Jordan's is irrelevant because Shaq played closer to the basket, well...that's my point. Jordan played the low-post of the Triangle much more than Kobe ever did throughout his career, hence the better shooting %. The first year Kobe moved into that position, it's no coincidence he was shooting the same % as MJ. They play the same position but in the Triangle, there's different areas the SG can play, Kobe's perimeter shot is better so he always played further away. Since his athleticism is waning, he made the switch and got with Hakeem Olajuwon and got even better. Somehow.
Oh and let's not forget, your "tougher" more "physical" era didn't allow zone defense, something that can be pretty tough as well.
3) Kareem has to do with the argument your trying to make about Kobe somehow being taken for a championship ride with the almighty Shaq, and now from your comments, I guess Gasol. The point being, Kareem is an all time great, one of the best Centers of all time, and nobody seems to mind that Magic Johnson won that title without him being anywhere on the Court. Nobody seems to mind that Larry Bird played with not only Robert Parrish but Kevin Mchale, but mention Kobe, and Shaq seems to be the sole reason for his first 3 rings, even though Kobe averaged 30 ppg, saved them from numerous losses while Shaq was fouled out, and fed the big man with more dimes than any other guard he's ever played with in his life.
4) Those teams in the late 80's-90's WERE GREAT, there's no disputing that, but they also weren't nearly the physical specimen that Jordan was. Jordan was similar to Lebron in that fact, every night he was guaranteed to be the best athlete on the floor. Those old players were fundamentally sound, and played the game right, which is why they're great, but Jordan never wrestled with anybody with more athleticism, size and/or agility on a nightly basis like Kobe does. Was John Stockton or Jeff Hornacek really a threat to Jordan, even at 35 years of age? C'mon!!
Jordan didn't have to worry about wrestling with someone the size and skill of Carmelo Anthony like Kobe did last yr, and he was still dropping 40 on the other end. MJ didn't have to stare down Lebron James, or deal with a Kevin Durant, or a prime KG or even a old KG, a 7 footer who plays the perimeter and guards the perimeter. The list goes on, these guys are physical beasts that simply didn't exist in Jordan's era. In fact the first time he ever saw someone like Allen Iverson, someone faster than he ever dealt with...well....we all saw what happened.
5) You seem to have the fixation on 1-on-1 until it's not convenient. You don't mention that it's a team game when you talk about Jordan, you talk about everything he did, alone. I bring up Scottie Pippen, you act as if he was some sort of afterthought. So then I talk about Kobe's singular game, you quickly bring up Shaq/Gasol, so which is it? Kobe is more than just on Jordan's level, in terms of overall basketball SKILL, ability with a ball in your hand, the things he can do on the court, he's surpassed that. A while ago. And he had to, to be this good in this era with bigger stronger more athletic players. And the world knows it, whether they choose to accept it or not...
# 11
marq @ May 17
Are we just going to ignore these guys: Courtney Lee, Kerry Kittles, Aaron Mckie/Eric Snow, Jalen Rose, Rip Hamilton
Payton is 6-4 and one of, if not the, greatest defensive point guard ever. And the answer is "No," his Finals history shows he would not throttle those guys
Payton is 6-4 and one of, if not the, greatest defensive point guard ever. And the answer is "No," his Finals history shows he would not throttle those guys
# 12
jmb10215 @ May 17
@jdareal21, if you look at kobe's career stats and MJ's career stat's michael is better in every catergory
# 13
jdareal21 @ May 17
@ jmb10215, your right, but there's reasons for that, reasons that I've outlined here. Stats can and often are, deceiving. I'm not sure if you read through everything, but you should, I think I've outlined it pretty clearly.
Kobe never entered the League with free reign over his team like MJ or Lebron (by the way, this blog was about Lebron, how we got into MJ I have no idea) Kobe for all intents and purposes had to work from the bench his first yr and a half. (By the way, he did drop 22 I believe on Jordan in '98, coming off the bench. And Pippen)
Kobe sacrificed his stats in order to play with Shaq and win those championships. And when he finally was let loose without restrictions, he won the scoring title, MVP, dropped 81, Finals MVP, everything MJ got to accomplish earlier, he's making up for right now as we speak...
Kobe never entered the League with free reign over his team like MJ or Lebron (by the way, this blog was about Lebron, how we got into MJ I have no idea) Kobe for all intents and purposes had to work from the bench his first yr and a half. (By the way, he did drop 22 I believe on Jordan in '98, coming off the bench. And Pippen)
Kobe sacrificed his stats in order to play with Shaq and win those championships. And when he finally was let loose without restrictions, he won the scoring title, MVP, dropped 81, Finals MVP, everything MJ got to accomplish earlier, he's making up for right now as we speak...
# 14
jmb10215 @ May 17
@jdareal, lets not forget kobe's HORRIBLE performance against the suns 4 years ago when the lakers were up 3-1 and lost the series where he basically quit in the game 7(like lebron did this year)
# 15
marq @ May 17
@J
Okay, I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying here. Gasol was already an all-star when he got to LA, putting them over the top. Pippen was a homegrown star molded and carried by Jordan. Gasol's numbers really don't change between the Boston/Orlando series. Look at them if you have the time.
When Jordan came into the league, before the post game, before the midrange game, he consistently shot over 50%, after he became older and developed his post game he was right at 50%. Kobe has never been close. So Jordan on the wing or post as the #1 option was a more efficient scorer.
Um, I don't think Jordan would have a problem with the zone considering that he played against it in college and the fact that at the age of 40 was still scoring 20 per game. Even had the Wizards in the playoffs until injuries took their toll.
Kareem missed one game in the series due to injury and you want to make a big deal out of it. How can the MVP of the league, who actually dominated that series, be carried to a title? Yes, Magic stepped up and had an all-time performance, but the reason why it was so special is because the perception was the Lakers would not win that 1 game without Kareem. MAgic stepped up and sealed the series.
Shaq was the force on that team and the league. He completely dominated his position during that title run, hence 3 straight Finals MVPs. That is why Shaq is brought up, because HE was the center piece while Kobe played his Pippen with better clutch qualities. FYI, the Sixers and Nets really stood no chance in either series. It wasn't as if the Lakers played a great team during the Finals. They played a scrappy/overmatched Philly, scrappy NJ, and a veteran Pacers team. Those teams were not better than any team Chicago faced in their 6 title runs.
And yes, we all saw the AI crossover of Jordan, but we/you also forget that Jordan dominated that game and the sixers lost by 20. Yeah, it was a nice clip for SportsCenter and mixtapes, but it had nothing to do with the eventual outcome of that game.
You forget that Jordan played against these guys (with the exception of LeBron and Durant/Wade) as a 40 yearold and HELD HIS OWN. He averaged 22 and 20 at 39 and 40 respectively. What do YOU think he would've done if younger?! He also played pretty well defensively in his Wizards career.
I don't have a fixation with 1-on-1, I was just answering your question. You said place Kobe 1-on-1 against a few guards and he would kill them. I've always said it was a team game with MJ at the focal point for his ENTIRE career, you then changed it to him being the greatest Leader. If it was just Kobe and Artest with a servicable post player (like a varejao or Nene) the Lakers would not win a title. To have a big man like Pau who can give you 20pts and 13rbs is the difference between possibly hoisting the trophy and being at home after rd 1.
Again, Kobe was Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. He just was, no shame in that. Just don't act like that didn't happen. And you can try to quantify SKILL if you want, but we will never be able to come to a definitive answer, it's impossible. But I do know that Jordan has higher averages across the board than Kobe, despite them being dragged down by playing at the age of 40, he was the better defender (200 steals and 100 blocks in a season 2 years in a row while Kobe has never done either ONCE), and he accomplished more.
But again, Kobe is great, but he's not better than Jordan, whether you choose to accept it or not...
Okay, I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying here. Gasol was already an all-star when he got to LA, putting them over the top. Pippen was a homegrown star molded and carried by Jordan. Gasol's numbers really don't change between the Boston/Orlando series. Look at them if you have the time.
When Jordan came into the league, before the post game, before the midrange game, he consistently shot over 50%, after he became older and developed his post game he was right at 50%. Kobe has never been close. So Jordan on the wing or post as the #1 option was a more efficient scorer.
Um, I don't think Jordan would have a problem with the zone considering that he played against it in college and the fact that at the age of 40 was still scoring 20 per game. Even had the Wizards in the playoffs until injuries took their toll.
Kareem missed one game in the series due to injury and you want to make a big deal out of it. How can the MVP of the league, who actually dominated that series, be carried to a title? Yes, Magic stepped up and had an all-time performance, but the reason why it was so special is because the perception was the Lakers would not win that 1 game without Kareem. MAgic stepped up and sealed the series.
Shaq was the force on that team and the league. He completely dominated his position during that title run, hence 3 straight Finals MVPs. That is why Shaq is brought up, because HE was the center piece while Kobe played his Pippen with better clutch qualities. FYI, the Sixers and Nets really stood no chance in either series. It wasn't as if the Lakers played a great team during the Finals. They played a scrappy/overmatched Philly, scrappy NJ, and a veteran Pacers team. Those teams were not better than any team Chicago faced in their 6 title runs.
And yes, we all saw the AI crossover of Jordan, but we/you also forget that Jordan dominated that game and the sixers lost by 20. Yeah, it was a nice clip for SportsCenter and mixtapes, but it had nothing to do with the eventual outcome of that game.
You forget that Jordan played against these guys (with the exception of LeBron and Durant/Wade) as a 40 yearold and HELD HIS OWN. He averaged 22 and 20 at 39 and 40 respectively. What do YOU think he would've done if younger?! He also played pretty well defensively in his Wizards career.
I don't have a fixation with 1-on-1, I was just answering your question. You said place Kobe 1-on-1 against a few guards and he would kill them. I've always said it was a team game with MJ at the focal point for his ENTIRE career, you then changed it to him being the greatest Leader. If it was just Kobe and Artest with a servicable post player (like a varejao or Nene) the Lakers would not win a title. To have a big man like Pau who can give you 20pts and 13rbs is the difference between possibly hoisting the trophy and being at home after rd 1.
Again, Kobe was Pippen to Shaq's Jordan. He just was, no shame in that. Just don't act like that didn't happen. And you can try to quantify SKILL if you want, but we will never be able to come to a definitive answer, it's impossible. But I do know that Jordan has higher averages across the board than Kobe, despite them being dragged down by playing at the age of 40, he was the better defender (200 steals and 100 blocks in a season 2 years in a row while Kobe has never done either ONCE), and he accomplished more.
But again, Kobe is great, but he's not better than Jordan, whether you choose to accept it or not...
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