NBA 2K15 Ships on October 7th, Pre-Order and Get the KD MVP Bonus Pack

[VDusen04]

Quote: Originally Posted by blues rocker

i think the casual fan base FAR outweighs the sim fan base. coming on a board like this, it can be easy to forget how rare sim gamers are - they make up a tiny fraction of 2k's customers. i'd say the makeup of 2k's customers right now is probably like 95% casual, 5% sim. maybe even 98% casual. if every sim player stopped buying 2k games, i don't think it would make a dent in 2k's revenue. the average person just wants to zone out and not think when playing games. bottom line is that there will always be far more kids and casuals buying games than serious sim heads. 2k's going to cater to them because there are a lot more of them. numbers and money always win. now that 2k has developed mass appeal in the video game culture, i don't think they're going to go more sim anytime soon. i won't be buying a 2k game again until they offer a more "strategy-based" online quick match mode. the fact that someone can compete with me online by jacking up bad shots and forcing contact shots inside just doesn't fly with me. until 2k offers a fulfilling quick match mode that rewards you more for passing and open shots, i won't be buying another game.

I always felt most gamers fell somewhere in-between. I'm not super sim myself. I do not really mess with a lot of sliders, I don't pay pain-stakingly close attention to every postgame statistic to see if points-in-the-paint are too aplenty, etc. Similarly, I do not think 98% of the gamer base is made of folks trading cards and running up MyTeam non-stop.

Again, instead, I think the truth falls somewhere in the middle. I believe quality matters to most. Before Live collapsed upon itself via Jesus Bynum, they'd already lost a lot of their fanbase to the higher quality NBA 2K, well before the inclusion of virtual currency, MyTeam, and countless other fantasy options. 2K strived for realism and branded itself as "the #1 basketball simulation". Super simulation gamers (the minority) loved it, but it also appealed to the general mass, because I believe the general mass likes real life replication just as well.

From here, again, I don't know. I'm not sure if 2K has hit Madden levels or not (where they could release anything they wanted and still kill it, forever). I personally do not think they are invincible. If they somehow are able to fortify their MyFantasy modes while also bringing back all the familiar options (create-a-player, offline rosters, for starters) and really committing to realism elsewhere (no VC where it doesn't belong) then they'll be gold. If not, then I think the door could be open down the road for someone else to pop up as the mid-2000's 2K, taking over the popular brand through chasing sheer quality and authenticity.

[WaddupCouzin]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I disagreed with this "loyal" sentiment and people got mad last year, and I still disagree with it. Imo the hardcore fanbase - at least the more vocal wing of the hardcore fanbase - aren't loyal fans. They simply want a realistic basketball game and don't care who gives it to them. This wouldn't be a discussion if EA or another game were offering what you desire. All it's taken is a few words in an early in the development stage press release for people to already start declaring "they're out", or looking elsewhere. For all of 2K's supposed great history with hardcore players, it only took one year to erase all of that? You say you haven't even purchased the game the past two years yourself - and I don't blame you for not purchasing the games if you don't feel they're for you. But imo that isn't loyalty. If 2K provides a product you like, you purchase it. If they don't, you don't purchase it. Imo the word loyalty gets used in a way as to infer 2K's abandoning your principles, it's dedication to providing a quality NBA experience. But have they really? For all the talk NOW of how great the NBA Combine was, back in 2K10 when the only DLC 2K had was the $5 NBA Combine, people around here flipped out. Despite the fact that every other major sports game had extensive DLC offerings. Back then I remember many saying it was more about principle than the $5 cost. Forward to 2K12, and 2K expands on it's Legends team content in a major way, even adding era-specific presentation. You'd think the hardcore would be elated, but around here the general perception that gets pushed is the game was garbage. If I recall correctly people here were mad that 2K had two Legends teams as a preorder bonus; they felt they shouldn't have to preorder or pay to get the teams. I think eventually they were released as free codes. Too often this board [collectively] overreacts about the least little news then expects to be taken seriously. I'm not trying to downplay the VC fiasco as I don't know how invasive it is to the individual gameplay modes - I don't own an XBO yet but likely will get one soon. And I'm not a fan of the My-whatever features. But how far have these things really intruded on 2K's focus of delivering a quality playing game? By most accounts NBA2K14 on the 360/PS3 was a "cheeser's nightmare" I remember people commenting early on. NBA2K14 PS4/XBO was widely regarded as easily the best playing basketball game to date. Now it's looked at as total crap, with people inferring they were bamboozled. For me it's hard to blame 2K IF they are in fact focusing more on the My-whatever faction of their fanbase since it seems to the be larger and more content contingent of their fanbase. One thing I see with hardcore players is a certain intolerance towards anything not perceived as a hardcore focus - this board had a petition circling a few years ago to have 2K completely remove Blacktop mode because they wanted 2K to focus "more on the gameplay". I'm a little all over the place with this post, but on some level people should look at the constant hyperbole and overreactions being thrown around and understand maybe that's part of the reason there's less of a focus to placate that portion of the fanbase.

Very well said.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[brahmagoul]

The problem I have with 2K is it got to this prosperous point by appealing to the "hardcore sim" types.

[VDusen04]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I disagreed with this "loyal" sentiment and people got mad last year, and I still disagree with it. Imo the hardcore fanbase - at least the more vocal wing of the hardcore fanbase - aren't loyal fans. They simply want a realistic basketball game and don't care who gives it to them. This wouldn't be a discussion if EA or another game were offering what you desire. All it's taken is a few words in an early in the development stage press release for people to already start declaring "they're out", or looking elsewhere. For all of 2K's supposed great history with hardcore players, it only took one year to erase all of that? You say you haven't even purchased the game the past two years yourself - and I don't blame you for not purchasing the games if you don't feel they're for you. But imo that isn't loyalty. If 2K provides a product you like, you purchase it. If they don't, you don't purchase it.

Hmm, yes, I recall having a discussion regarding the definition of loyalty last year but I do not recall the specifics. In this particularly case, I think the message is more important than the literal definition of a single word. The point was to convey that 2K had earned themselves an audience who felt they could buy their game year-in/year-out, knowing its quality was going to pertain to their interests (realism/simulation/NBA authenticity and replication). Perhaps exchanging "loyal" with "fanbase who had grown to rely on 2K releasing a product that would satisfy their interests" may better fit? I do not mind what we call it.

Either way, not to split hairs, but 2K14 was the first 2K I skipped. My tendency to rely upon NBA2K to release a product that would cater to my personal interests led me to buy 2K13 without much second thought (as 2K2-2K12, minus 2K4, delivered). After picking up on many aspects of 2K13 that made me say, "Hey wait.... where are they taking this thing?", I was much more alert about my purchase when 2K14 rolled around. I do not mind if that means I am not loyal, and I apologize if I used the term incorrectly. We can call it what we want, but a sure purchase became no purchase one way or another.

Quote:

Imo the word loyalty gets used in a way as to infer 2K's abandoning your principles, it's dedication to providing a quality NBA experience. But have they really?

I believe that is the million dollar question. Many folks are waiting to see if 2K15 will re-dedicate themselves to replicating an authentic NBA experience, or if the focus will once again shift toward aspects of the NBA experience that are not in the same realm as anything that could be deemed realistic (MyTeam, Virtual Currency everywhere, fake GM's, linear MyPlayer soap operas).

Quote:

For all the talk NOW of how great the NBA Combine was, back in 2K10 when the only DLC 2K had was the $5 NBA Combine, people around here flipped out. Despite the fact that every other major sports game had extensive DLC offerings. Back then I remember many saying it was more about principle than the $5 cost.

I am unsure how this relates to my initial input. I recall thinking it was kind of neat to get a tangible product early (in lieu of a demo). I played that thing out. Best of all, it was a new inclusion that was grounded in reality.

Quote:

Forward to 2K12, and 2K expands on it's Legends team content in a major way, even adding era-specific presentation. You'd think the hardcore would be elated, but around here the general perception that gets pushed is the game was garbage.

Again, I suppose I can only speak for myself, but I loved NBA 2K12. It most certainly had issues (the magic anticipating and super-transporting man-to-man defense), but the Legends and legend presentation was absolutely incredible. I do not recall many panning that aspect of the game.

Quote:

If I recall correctly people here were mad that 2K had two Legends teams as a preorder bonus; they felt they shouldn't have to preorder or pay to get the teams. I think eventually they were released as free codes.

Yes, I was frustrated with the legend team pre-order. I really wanted those teams and they felt like necessary staples, not bonuses that only some should have the opportunity to acquire (the 1991 Warriors and 2002 Kings). I recall there being something like, "Limited supply, only included in first shipment", so I was concerned I wouldn't get the game in time.

It was nice they eventually released the teams anyhow, but I certainly did not appreciate having them held above my head in that manner. I thought if I didn't get them on opening day, I'd be screwed out of an incredible experience (two of my favorite classics of all-time).

Quote:

Too often this board [collectively] overreacts about the least little news then expects to be taken seriously. I'm not trying to downplay the VC fiasco as I don't know how invasive it is to the individual gameplay modes - I don't own an XBO yet but likely will get one soon. And I'm not a fan of the My-whatever features. But how far have these things really intruded on 2K's focus of delivering a quality playing game?

Again, I think the answer to that question may depend upon what 2K15 offers up. If gamers still can't save multiple rosters (and manually), and they still are forced into an always-online experience, and VC still permeates through realistic modes (franchise) just as much as the super fantasies (MyTeam) and other realistic additions (D-League, Summer League, etc.) are still passed over in favor of bolstering MyPlayer from-the-streets-to-superstar storylines, then it could be safe to begin discussing how those aspects may be affecting the creation of a quality NBA replication product.

Quote:

By most accounts NBA2K14 on the 360/PS3 was a "cheeser's nightmare" I remember people commenting early on. NBA2K14 PS4/XBO was widely regarded as easily the best playing basketball game to date. Now it's looked at as total crap, with people inferring they were bamboozled.

As you know, I do not own 2K14 so I cannot comment on the 360 version, nor did I follow it closely. The next gen version, from what I've read, featured a solid (though understandably not perfect) on-court product, and it seems even the most frustrated of gamers tend to agree. However, it seemed many off-court aspects of the game were polarizing at best, frequently broken or missing at worst. It sounded like in many cases, the always-online combined with awful servers led gamers to not even being able to access the game itself.

Quote:

For me it's hard to blame 2K IF they are in fact focusing more on the My-whatever faction of their fanbase since it seems to the be larger and more content contingent of their fanbase.

This is truthful. If they've found their money maker, then it is what it is. But is it not understandable for folks who loved the way the game used to be made to be upset and disappointed to see one of their all-time favorites head away from them? Wouldn't it be sensible to voice one's displeasure in this regard?

Quote:

One thing I see with hardcore players is a certain intolerance towards anything not perceived as a hardcore focus - this board had a petition circling a few years ago to have 2K completely remove Blacktop mode because they wanted 2K to focus "more on the gameplay". I'm a little all over the place with this post, but on some level people should look at the constant hyperbole and overreactions being thrown around and understand maybe that's part of the reason there's less of a focus to placate that portion of the fanbase.

I do not know if that portion of your response was addressed toward me, as it does not seem as such. I suppose, to quickly summarize, it seems as though we're teetering on a situation where there's a portion of NBA 2K's fanbase who came on board in droves because 2K strove to make a realistic simulation product every year. So now, if 2K veers from that course, there's a lot of realism and simulation fans who are already on board (and have been for years) who will likely feel abandoned. Some may readily accept it and cheer on 2K to go ahead and make the most money they possibly can, even if it's at that gamer's personal expense. Others may speak up and voice their displeasure with their favored product's sudden change of course. Once again, seems sensible, no?

[El_Poopador]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I disagreed with this "loyal" sentiment and people got mad last year, and I still disagree with it. Imo the hardcore fanbase - at least the more vocal wing of the hardcore fanbase - aren't loyal fans. They simply want a realistic basketball game and don't care who gives it to them. This wouldn't be a discussion if EA or another game were offering what you desire. All it's taken is a few words in an early in the development stage press release for people to already start declaring "they're out", or looking elsewhere. For all of 2K's supposed great history with hardcore players, it only took one year to erase all of that? You say you haven't even purchased the game the past two years yourself - and I don't blame you for not purchasing the games if you don't feel they're for you. But imo that isn't loyalty. If 2K provides a product you like, you purchase it. If they don't, you don't purchase it. Imo the word loyalty gets used in a way as to infer 2K's abandoning your principles, it's dedication to providing a quality NBA experience. But have they really? For all the talk NOW of how great the NBA Combine was, back in 2K10 when the only DLC 2K had was the $5 NBA Combine, people around here flipped out. Despite the fact that every other major sports game had extensive DLC offerings. Back then I remember many saying it was more about principle than the $5 cost. Forward to 2K12, and 2K expands on it's Legends team content in a major way, even adding era-specific presentation. You'd think the hardcore would be elated, but around here the general perception that gets pushed is the game was garbage. If I recall correctly people here were mad that 2K had two Legends teams as a preorder bonus; they felt they shouldn't have to preorder or pay to get the teams. I think eventually they were released as free codes. Too often this board [collectively] overreacts about the least little news then expects to be taken seriously. I'm not trying to downplay the VC fiasco as I don't know how invasive it is to the individual gameplay modes - I don't own an XBO yet but likely will get one soon. And I'm not a fan of the My-whatever features. But how far have these things really intruded on 2K's focus of delivering a quality playing game? By most accounts NBA2K14 on the 360/PS3 was a "cheeser's nightmare" I remember people commenting early on. NBA2K14 PS4/XBO was widely regarded as easily the best playing basketball game to date. Now it's looked at as total crap, with people inferring they were bamboozled. For me it's hard to blame 2K IF they are in fact focusing more on the My-whatever faction of their fanbase since it seems to the be larger and more content contingent of their fanbase. One thing I see with hardcore players is a certain intolerance towards anything not perceived as a hardcore focus - this board had a petition circling a few years ago to have 2K completely remove Blacktop mode because they wanted 2K to focus "more on the gameplay". I'm a little all over the place with this post, but on some level people should look at the constant hyperbole and overreactions being thrown around and understand maybe that's part of the reason there's less of a focus to placate that portion of the fanbase.

I can't speak for everyone, but for myself, the issue lies in their focus. When there are major legacy issues from 2k9 ON-COURT (possibly even earlier; my first NBA 2k game was 2k9), then I can't help but get incredibly annoyed when they put more work into something like The Park, which no one really asked for, and emphasize VC in every game mode.

They advertised an entirely new in-game engine that offered true foot-planting, but it's no different than 2k14 on last gen, or even 2k13 and earlier. There were also complaints from day one with NBA 2k14 for PS4/XB1 that have gone unaddressed; things like no free agency in my career, 0VC contracts, players changing heights when a coach gets fired, etc. These are major issues that still exist. But they were very quick to lower VC rewards when they found out people were farming VC from MyGM.

So you'll have to excuse some of us, who would like the on-court issues and game-breaking bugs addressed before they work on adding a new 540 double backflip dunk for the guitar-hero dunk contest.

[thedream2k13]

Quote: Originally Posted by El_Poopador

I can't speak for everyone, but for myself, the issue lies in their focus. When there are major legacy issues from 2k9 ON-COURT (possibly even earlier; my first NBA 2k game was 2k9), then I can't help but get incredibly annoyed when they put more work into something like The Park, which no one really asked for, and emphasize VC in every game mode. They advertised an entirely new in-game engine that offered true foot-planting, but it's no different than 2k14 on last gen, or even 2k13 and earlier. There were also complaints from day one with NBA 2k14 for PS4/XB1 that have gone unaddressed; things like no free agency in my career, 0VC contracts, players changing heights when a coach gets fired, etc. These are major issues that still exist. But they were very quick to lower VC rewards when they found out people were farming VC from MyGM. So you'll have to excuse some of us, who would like the on-court issues and game-breaking bugs addressed before they work on adding a new 540 double backflip dunk for the guitar-hero dunk contest.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Bruh I sware the footplanting was so misleading and false advertising .

[zasbury25]

I know this will fall on deaf ears at 2K...

VC and Season Passes from other companies are not synonymous terms when it comes to added content in a game. For example, if I buy the Season Pass for Watch Dogs, I know what I am getting...additional single-player missions, a new game mode, additional weapons, and new outfits. It is up to me to determine if that additional content is worth $20 or not; I know that if I don't purchase the DLC, it will not hinder or devalue the experience that is included with the retail version of the game. Also, if I want to increase the battery of the cell phone my character carries (sounds ridiculous, huh?) throughout the campaign and side missions, real money is not an option when considering that upgrade. I know that I must enhance that attribute by advancing through the game, with XP collected at the same pace as every other player. I can then determine how I want to spend said XP and boost my attributes accordingly.

When it comes to 2K14 (and it seems 2K15), VC does not provide access to any new modes or features, but simply access to very limited additional content (MyPlayer gear) and already existing content/features stuck behind a paywall within the modes of the retail game. Purchasing VC doesn't allow me to unlock an additional, separate mode or content like the D-League or the FIBA World Basketball Tournament, complete with accurate rosters and such...something extra that doesn't hinder or alter the core game or modes. Instead, VC is spread throughout the various modes of the game and it definitely made me decide how and when to play the different modes included with the retail game. Because the amount of MyTeam points and VC earned are so out of proportion to the values of packs and attributes, I had to save my coins as much as possible because I wasn't going to spend additional real money to unlock players at a faster rate that are already in the game. I shouldn't have to do this...every core mode should be independent of themselves as well as the means of "leveling up" or advancing my character/team.

If there was a consistent amount of meaningful content (DLC) released that was not included in the core retail package, I would not have a problem with purchasing VC to unlock that content. If there was a constant stream of additional Legends teams, retro arenas, a new game mode...something, I wouldn't mind spending real money at all. Instead, VC and the temptation of spending real money is spread throughout the game in order to fully compete in the core game modes and I think that is what can be so upsetting to many.

After this experience with next-gen 2k14, I am fully aware that I am not in the target audience of this game anymore by seeing the absurdity of Ronnie and such on Twitter pimping the new, and limited to 1000 pairs or whatever, Kobe shoes in MyPlayer for 25000 VC (I think that's $10 or so in real money) and then retweeting those who ponied up the money for virtual shoes. It is upsetting to see their focus is more on the aesthetics and status of getting a Diamond Durant, rather than the core gameplay. If one went by what they retweet and "market", you'd never know you can actually play a decent game of basketball....for me, getting there seems to be more of a struggle now.