NBA 2K12 Patch 1.04 Available Now - Post Impressions Here (PS3, 360)

[nogster]

Quote:

Well damn... I have to say I'm not seeing the non double team issue as much as others. I played a game the other day with the Spurs and was going off with Manu and he got double teamed a few times. Also had Steve Blake of all people get doubled in a game I played. Are they less prevalent than in other years? Yes. But I do see guys come over to help when I'm in the post, and attempt to steal. Maybe it's b.c of some slider tweaks I made, but I only had help D strength at 55 so I dunno...

You are not being doubled. You are seeing aggressive help D. there is a fundamental difference.
I assume Blake got doubled in a pick n roll trap yeah? The ONLY time Ive ever seen doubles in 2k12.
A secondary player attempting to steal off the post player is not a double team. Its simply the court spacing. The secondary player is in the vicinity of the ball either due to coming to help cover driving lanes or because he happened to be there when the pass was made. thus giving him the chance to swipe. At no point do you get trapped, forced to give up the dribble and either shoot or pass it.
At no point does the CPU recognize a defensive mismatch and double the offensive player like it did so well in 2k11.
I put Augustine to guard Dwight then controlled the magic in a test. simply called the same low post play for Dwight. back down, back down. repeatedly scored. NO DOUBLE.
Its unacceptable.

Im being a broken record I know.
I am just so relieved that its finally being recognized.. I felt like I was bashing head against a brick wall screaming this issue and no one was listening.
Thanks ALTIMUS, COURT VISION and the others who have spoken out about this fundamental flaw in this game.

[ffaacc03]

While this patch didnt address many bugs and glitches, which to me were the least subjective and the more bothering of all issues, for what it did addressed it was GREAT !

I love the flow and smootheness that the game now has, love the new level of control, the increased amount of fouls, everything better than before. Played a vs game online against an unsim player (not cheeser, have yet to see a true cheese move) that relied on excesive 3s, steals, bullying into the paint and felt great to finally be able to contest all. Also played some teamup games and loved how the reaching fouls are now called, not overdone but in the right instances, we managed to get to the line 26 times (lol, never ever was that even possible, great). Also, the usual lag was almost absent.

While I know there are limitations, I would love to see them (2k) release a final patch (just a big doubtfull hope, I know) that could address all the significant amount of bugs/glitches that affect season/association/my player. Am already resigned to accept that there wont be any additions of absent options, even when they are undenyable needed (online: sliders, resets, classics vs friends and teamups) ... as those were due to a company decission and not a bug/glitch/gameplay missintended action.

If I had to put an score: 2k11 (93) and 2k12 (90) but with 2k12 having a much better potential to be a better base to build upon the next installment.

[DJ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Altimus

This is the biggest issue for me and in just unacceptable. 2K11 threw doubles sometimes as soon as your PG crossed the court forcing you immediately to change your plan of attack. Bigs down low got double teamed. Now we have nothing. Maybe 2K thought the CBA was going to introduce some new no double team rule or something, who knows. Either way at the end this cripples the game for because of how important the double is. 2K, you have no excuse for excluding this and not being able to add it through so many patches. What's next, you going to take out walks out of MLB 2K12? As someone else mentioned, this game took 4 steps forward and 3 steps backward. Worry less about the legends and DLC 2K and get your hoops fundamentals down next time.

Agreed, Altimus. The lack of double-teams by the CPU is very disappointing, especially, as you said, the game did them so well last year.

There's a lot to like about 2K12 and the patch did a lot of good things ... unfortunately, the flaws still stand out and it's hard not to be disappointed in the overall product compared to 2K11.

[DarthRambo]

Beat the Wizards 115-83 with the Magic...had 26pts, 13reb, and 1 blick with Howard. Shot 12/25 from 3pt so there's the big lead, and held Wizards to under 40% shooting.


Big thing I saw messed up is the lack of double teaming by the cpu. I had 18pts in the first qtr with Howard!!! They never double but maybe once the entire game. He was missing alot of shots after the first quarter though, cant remember his shot total but it was still above 50%.

With the slider tweaks I've made since the patch the game plays amazing. All we need is a good set of rosters with edited tendencies that are correct and this game will be golden. I had well over 20pts on fastbreaks btw so no clue what you all are talking about with the no fastbreak crap. Even had a nice alley-oop from J-Rich to Howard on one...

The lack of double team sucks, but the ball movement by the cpu is much improved, the passing is nice, and the overall feel of the game is good. I'm now wishing the cpu would shoot the ball more to draw fouls more when they drive inside instead of passing it which I thought I'd never say for this game.

[Pitfighter87]

[rangerrick012]

Quote: Originally Posted by nogster

You are not being doubled. You are seeing aggressive help D. there is a fundamental difference. I assume Blake got doubled in a pick n roll trap yeah? The ONLY time Ive ever seen doubles in 2k12. A secondary player attempting to steal off the post player is not a double team. Its simply the court spacing. The secondary player is in the vicinity of the ball either due to coming to help cover driving lanes or because he happened to be there when the pass was made. thus giving him the chance to swipe. At no point do you get trapped, forced to give up the dribble and either shoot or pass it. At no point does the CPU recognize a defensive mismatch and double the offensive player like it did so well in 2k11. I put Augustine to guard Dwight then controlled the magic in a test. simply called the same low post play for Dwight. back down, back down. repeatedly scored. NO DOUBLE. Its unacceptable. Im being a broken record I know. I am just so relieved that its finally being recognized.. I felt like I was bashing head against a brick wall screaming this issue and no one was listening. Thanks ALTIMUS, COURT VISION and the others who have spoken out about this fundamental flaw in this game.

OK great that's cool. Blake got doubled when I was trying to call a play at a random juncture of the game. I know it wasn't a P&R though. That tells me that DT logic is still in, just a bit wonky for some reason which I agree sucks. Also I know what a double team is and was just pointing out that even though I don't see pure 'double teams' with the animation and what not I do see guys help off and go for the steal on guys in the post.

I'm sorry that you're so upset about this. I'm not saying that it's not a problem but for me it's not a gamebreaker. And yes I do use post players and consider myself a decent post player. But at the same time people are making it like every team doubles every post player every game in real life, which is not the case. I'm not saying it's not an issue that should be addressed. But IMO it's not the gamebreaker that some are making it out to be, especially considering some of the other elements that are even bigger flaws IMO.

Hopefully as Czar said 2K will look at it and fix it in a future patch, and hopefully that should be fixed since I do see DTs occasionally at least, though admittedly not as much or as often as in 2K11. But I do think it's being overblown as a 'game breaker' by some on here. Agree to disagree.

[Altimus]

This isn't a game breaker but it's basic basketball fundamentals. Pressing and double teaming. Double teams from the AI perspective are nonexistence and pressing for the AI is just magically sliding the defender over and creating an invisible wall so you can't get through.

The game looks glorious at first glance but the more you play, the bigger the flaws get.

Also I know no team doubles on every possession but the game doesn't adjust properly to when it should. Sometimes the game never adjusts. The problem is this was perfect last year as I remember many times in late games I would bring the ball up with Rose and get doubled immediately. Something a real team would do. Get the ball out of the most dangerous player's hands and force the offense into a different play. Get beat my someone other than the star player. Here I feel no pressure. I can run plays on every set whenever I want. The AI will just play out 5 on 5 with no intention of disrupting the flow of the offense with some double up top.

The other side of is in zone defenses doubles are used a lot more because of the aggressive nature to force a turnover. I'm not sure how often the AI goes into zone but when they should it should also increase the chance of doubling up.

Also looking at some stats I remember per every 100 shots last year in the Playoffs, the Heat took 20% of them against double team scenarios. That's a lot.

To me this is an important aspect of basketball. It just doesn't exist in this game. 2K11 had it right, here, it's just straight 5 on 5 with no double, poor rotations and invisible walls. Players don't rotate properly over sometimes, defense is just ignored in this game.

I'm just tired of this nonsense man. Each year is the same thing. Game comes out and we all know we'll have to wait for a winter patch to fix glitches, bugs and other things. Has been like that before the 360 days even on the original Xbox. Well the winter patch has come and still there are some glaring issues. 2K needs to get on the ball here literally.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pitfighter87

Nice breakdown Da_Czar. Pulling no punches but also highlighting what's better. I think I need to revisit my drive attempts. I'm having a lot of trouble with Monta Ellis. Probably need to run scrimmage to work out how to get around the defender. Are you using turbo? What difficulty and settings? I do miss how in 2K11 the defense actually has to account for momentum and you can freeze them in their shoes and don't have to be afraid of using turbo sometimes.

I also agree that in my limited experience fast breaks seem better. Passes connect more often and I'm seeing more bounce passes. I know speed doesn't matter enough in transition but is it universal? Does it come into play in a half court set?