NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

[rEAnimator]

Quote: Originally Posted by jr2424

With this audience (and I'm part of it) it comes down to the movement and authenticity. I know you stated that this game was to capture a feeling of playing at the "Y" (Sorry, I know I'm not quoting you directly.) and as you know, when it comes to this community, it comes down to every aspect. The herky-jerky nature of the movement (especially when jumping). I'm big into rebounding, and to me, the demo fails to capture the feeling of boxing someone out and leaping with the fluidity NBA players use to grab a rebound. It comes down to the collision annimations that feel very stiff and almost spastic when collision is made mid-air (I hope I'm not being mean, but I know you said you wanted to hear this, and this is my perspective). For us (and I hope I'm conveying what the community is saying), it comes down to feeling authentic. NBA players are some of the most athletic in sports, but this game fails to capture that fluidity (I don't have a specific way of explaining fluidity but it's kind of like how the Supreme Court defined pornography, you know it when you see it.) And we don't see it or really feel it. I want to be immersed. That's what video games do for me that no other medium can capture. When I'm playing an NBA game, I want to think I'm controlling Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Tim Duncan, Kevin Durant, etc. There need to be some difference between how each of these players feel, look, react. I hope this does not come off as an attack. You have been really great answering the community despite it being very negative. Thank you for listening.

Thank you very much.

This is one of the better explanation as to why the visual quality and authenticity of the animations matters so much toy ou.

You're basically saying it's causing you to break that suspension of disbelief very quickly when you play the game, and that prevents you from enjoying any other aspect of the game.

I get it.

I think this might be the answer I was looking for.

[dirtypuppet]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

Before the demo came out I would have agreed for sure, but I haven't heard much about them since.

I'd say it's animation quality first and foremost, and after that the lack of contextual animations, and after that, lack of player differentiation through animation (sig style).

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by dtq

You assumed that the result, when 2K does make the move to real physics, is going to be as atrocious as EA's offering this year. 2K has a history of listening to their fan-base so much more than EA ever had. Beside, I doubt they would stay idle if they know that the future is going to be where real-time physics is; there is such a thing called being proactive.

He's also assuming 2K doesn't already do what EA is calling RTP...

[jr2424]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

Thank you very much. This is one of the better explanation as to why the visual quality and authenticity of the animations matters so much toy ou. You're basically saying it's causing you to break that suspension of disbelief very quickly when you play the game, and that prevents you from enjoying any other aspect of the game. I get it. I think this might be the answer I was looking for.

Happy I could help. No matter what people say here, we all want two excellent basketball games. I WANT NBA ELITE TO BE GREAT. The reason: Competition breads innovation. I do give you guys props for trying something new. I think guys here (including me) really saw the jump in authenticity last year and were hoping for it to continue. The harshness of the reaction I think has more to do with disappointment. I know you guys put your heart and soul into this game, so it hurts me to say anything negative toward an endeavor like that. But you will get honesty from these boards (for the most part).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm rooting for you guys because I want to see my once-beloved basketball franchise get back to what made it really great. Again, thank you for listening.

[dtq]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fngb3

Oh no doubt no doubt. The technology won't be as new, for sure. And knowing 2K they won't do it until they're sure they can do it right. I just mean from EAs perspective, being well behind as they were (are), this was their chance to try and really be more polished regarding the next sort of manifestation of basketball sims, than 2K. I just think it's pretty clear that for the next 3 years at least, 2K aint gon have any other bball games climbin up their arse, and it's pretty typical for something to not progress as rapidly without conflict. I wouldn't even blame them for not improving greatly while EAs rebuilding... I'm just excited to see what happens a few years from now, once EA builds around this new core...

Fair enough. I see your point.

[Live_4real]

You can´t forget that this game is not the first one in the Live/Elite franchise

People have burned money on this franchise for years in this generation of consoles, last year they saw a light, and because they felt that this year the game took a step backwards, they feel like the old days

Some are acting like bashing machines, but in fact they care about the game, and all they want is a good product

2 of the biggest issues that I can understand the Sim nation could have with the game are:

- People feel that this game as nothing to do with NBA, they don´t feel LBJ when playing with LBJ, they wan´t NBA and not b-ball

- And the other aspect (that I guess sim ballers are stressing), is the fact that you have to many control over your player offensively, that you almost feel like the play-calling/exploit of missmatches are almost useless, because when playing one on one, you can almost guarantee if you use screens/drible moves with skill, 90% of the times you will be successful

This is a problem that I think Elite will have to figure out in every single game going forward.

How to keep the strategic aspect of basketball as important as is the Stick skill already in this game

PeAcE

[Fngb3]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

That's why I asked what 5v5 dynamics were missing in response to that previous post. I can't think of any.

I said in an earlier post of mine that I was actually diggin most of the controls in practice mode, but that once it came to 5v5 I did a complete 180 on the game. I've also said in a post of mine that for me, it's not so much jerky animations or warping or half-time shows, or anything like that, that get's me interested in a basketball game. So from my end, signature styles, people looking plasticky, realistic collisions, smooth animations, etc. is not what I look for. Sure, it makes it a tad harder to swallow when those things are all off but for me it comes down to this: Is the way to be succesful in this game to use the strategies that real basketball teams need to use to be succesful?

So this is obviously a majorly huge topic but let's see if I can break this down with brevity.

Offensively:
Ball and player movement is the mechanism real teams use to get open, high percentage shots.
In the instance of super-star players, this is occasionally unecessary because they can produce their own offense.

Defensively:
Defense is always about position.
On Ball defenders are succesful when they keep their man in front of them or at least force them away from the paint. And stay close enough to contest or alter shots.
Off-ball defenders look to be in position to help if the on ball defender gets beat, but close enough to get back to their man if he gets the ball.
Defense is about regression to the mean. And by that I mean, you make the highest amount of shots the other team takes, as difficult as possible. Some will go in, but if a defense is sound, the percentage of succesful conversions from the offensive team is reduce. This is why the Celtics are succesful. They have a system. There are easy looks sometimes, but in the long run, the opposing teams shoot a low FG% against them.

I don't mean to sound condescending like you've never studied basketball before, but these are basic precepts that make teams succesful on both sides of the ball.

The only thing I see in the Elite 11 demo from that small list is: "...the instance of super-star players [producing] their own offense." I don't see any of those other fundamental aspects of basketball.

Defensive rotation and position is something both 2K and EA struggle with. I imagine that is because it's difficult to replicate... Nonetheless, because Elite is starting over, that system is suddenly massively underdeveloped.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

Before the demo came out I would have agreed for sure, but I haven't heard much about them since.

The CPU AI on offense, the shot blocking, too many steals, the lack of fouls being called, and the animations as a whole specially the dribble and dunk animations.

Its just a lot of little things too like the location of the stance. One easy way to give unprecedented control is to use the range of motion of the trigger for the stance.

I feel like a ham linking my video but I made it because it speaks louder than words. These are the little things that people care about.





On a good note the physics system has wipped out full body clipping.