Madden NFL 10 Gameplay Video: Eagles @ Cowboys (IGN)

[hofields]

I am impressed by by what I saw in that video! It does not look how madden has looked in the past wiht only one year between games. This game looks very diffrent than 09 in a great way!

[ochonflcinco85]

wow,i liked that tackle at the end of the touchdown,were crayton got just smacked!i also like the pro-tak tackle when westbrook got wrapped up by two defenders,i like it so far...................

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by carolina_boi

well u cant be madd at the video, that sounds like a personal problem to me. You should know what players and what routes they run and who does it the best on your team. Crayton had the guy beat and romo threw the beautiful bullet so that only his WR could catch it, if he lobbed it then the CB would have had to to catch up, adjust his self and go for the swat or INT...

I don't recall saying I was mad at the video. To the best of my knowledge the video has never caused me harm.

What I have asked, is a pretty simple question, how do you know the WR is open so you can throw to him? The answer so far is 'no safety help' or 'he had him beat', which doesn't answer the question. How do you look at the play and know that he had him beat? To me, the WR looks covered. I never would have thrown that pass, and I don't understand why the QB did in that scenario. Why he read it as an open receiver and a safe passing situation.

How much room does there need to be between a WR / DB on a straight line pass like that for the WR to make the catch consistently / safely if the pass is a good one? Based on the pass that was thrown (non fade / pretty fast) that would not work in APF2K8. A good player would switch control of the player, change to the DB, and hit Y to jump or LB to swat the ball down.

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

I don't recall saying I was mad at the video. To the best of my knowledge the video has never caused me harm. What I have asked, is a pretty simple question, how do you know the WR is open so you can throw to him? The answer so far is 'no safety help' or 'he had him beat', which doesn't answer the question. How do you look at the play and know that he had him beat? To me, the WR looks covered. I never would have thrown that pass, and I don't understand why the QB did in that scenario. Why he read it as an open receiver and a safe passing situation. How much room does there need to be between a WR / DB on a straight line pass like that for the WR to make the catch consistently / safely if the pass is a good one? Based on the pass that was thrown (non fade / pretty fast) that would not work in APF2K8. A good player would switch control of the player, change to the DB, and hit Y to jump or LB to swat the ball down.

I have to say that I disagree on the characterization of both games here. I literally just made the pass you say can't be made in APF with Cunningham to Eric Martin for a score about an hour ago, against a very good player.

You've been asking this same question in the APF forums regarding bump man, and honestly, I think it's a flawed question.

You seem to want a "read" in man that doesn't really exist. If you throw when you see your guy open by 3 steps, in the NFL that's actually a late throw, and as long as it's not cover zero you might get burned for making that late pass.

In man coverage it's often about anticipation, trying to discern if your guy has the proper shoulder for the route, and hoping your QB makes a good throw and the DB doesn't make a good break on the ball. There's no magic bullet. Sometimes your guy makes a good throw and the receiver makes a good play. Sometimes the DB makes a great play on the ball. There's no way to know that one or the other of those isn't going to happen.

I watched this video again, and I actually think it's pretty good. The locomotion is a little stiff for my tastes, but it's still good on the whole and has improved a good bit from the look of last year. I thought the TD to Crayton was just a good throw and catch, nothing more. It's hard to extrapolate much more than that from that amount of "evidence." We're talking about Romo, who can make amazing throws (as well as bad ones) and a WR who has the potential to be very good from time to time.

To return to your premise, I recall an interview with Peyton Manning during his rookie year. He was talking about the biggest adjustment from UT to IND, and for him it was learning that "open" in the NFL meant something very different than it did in college. Sure there are plays where guys get wide open, but those are usually broken plays. Most of the time, "open" means having the right body shading and maybe an entire step on a DB, and it's usually less than that.

[Tampa Bay]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

I don't recall saying I was mad at the video. To the best of my knowledge the video has never caused me harm. What I have asked, is a pretty simple question, how do you know the WR is open so you can throw to him? The answer so far is 'no safety help' or 'he had him beat', which doesn't answer the question. How do you look at the play and know that he had him beat? To me, the WR looks covered. I never would have thrown that pass, and I don't understand why the QB did in that scenario. Why he read it as an open receiver and a safe passing situation. How much room does there need to be between a WR / DB on a straight line pass like that for the WR to make the catch consistently / safely if the pass is a good one? Based on the pass that was thrown (non fade / pretty fast) that would not work in APF2K8. A good player would switch control of the player, change to the DB, and hit Y to jump or LB to swat the ball down.

I've never played that game, but I can't imagine that you need your WR to be more open than he was in the madden video. How many steps on the DB do you need before you can complete a pass? In real life, all you need is a step and better position on the ball. It sounds like you want to be 100% certain before you throw the ball that it will be completed.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tampa Bay

I've never played that game, but I can't imagine that you need your WR to be more open than he was in the madden video. How many steps on the DB do you need before you can complete a pass? In real life, all you need is a step and better position on the ball. It sounds like you want to be 100% certain before you throw the ball that it will be completed.

Again, define 'more open'. How did the player read that he was open? One step, two steps? The simple fact that he's above him?

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

I have to say that I disagree on the characterization of both games here. I literally just made the pass you say can't be made in APF with Cunningham to Eric Martin for a score about an hour ago, against a very good player.

Were you playing another player, or the computer? Against a good player, no, if they hit Y/LB and jump up, odds are the ball will be knocked down. Many players hit RB though and it goes for an INT, which will be missed most of the time. So be sure you understand and are using proper context, which I don't believe you are with regards to APF2K8.

Quote: Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind

You've been asking this same question in the APF forums regarding bump man, and honestly, I think it's a flawed question. You seem to want a "read" in man that doesn't really exist. If you throw when you see your guy open by 3 steps, in the NFL that's actually a late throw, and as long as it's not cover zero you might get burned for making that late pass. In man coverage it's often about anticipation, trying to discern if your guy has the proper shoulder for the route, and hoping your QB makes a good throw and the DB doesn't make a good break on the ball. There's no magic bullet. Sometimes your guy makes a good throw and the receiver makes a good play. Sometimes the DB makes a great play on the ball. There's no way to know that one or the other of those isn't going to happen.

I disagree completely. Even in Madden '09 I can read when a guy is open in man coverage, easily on slants / straight routes across the field (horizontals) based on the fact that they have a step on the coverage, and the coverage is above them, not below them. Based on this analysis, if I see a DB below a WR, I would not throw a hard pass in to the WR as the video seemed to show. I might put some touch on it and lead the WR, but the pass does not look like a lead / touch pass in the slightest.

[Tampa Bay]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

Again, define 'more open'. How did the player read that he was open? One step, two steps? The simple fact that he's above him?

one step + no other player in the area with a better angle to the ball

I'm throwing that one every time and leading the WR away from the defender.

It's not 100% guaranteed, but my guy will definitely have a better chance to catch it than the DB will to defend it.