NBA 2K12 Patch 1.03 Available Now, Post Impressions Here (PS3, 360)

[dukedude24]

so they didn't fix the trade logic in MP like Ronnie said they would......

[secondcity t]

39 out of 65 with Beasley on 13/25 shooting vs the Heat. I'm shooting 3s easier than pre patch which seems to be going against the grain of everyone else. Seems like Live 10 all over again with the one man show.

[greenegt]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mos1ted

No, the animation transitions have definitely loss some fluidity with this patch.

Is this just an online thing or does it happen offline, as well?

[Mos1ted]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I'm not going to sidetrack the thread. I haven't watched you play nor have I faced every kind of cheeser. But my experience is someone that there a more knowledgeable player that's willing to make adjustments will win out more often than not against someone using helter-skelter tactics. I'm not even that knowledgeable regarding 2K11/12 but my experience has been showing patience/not getting frustrated is probably key above all else. My luck ran out as I just played a guy that did nothing but swipe at the ball. His twist was to constantly try to draw charges. He did have too much success using those tactics - there were a lot of fouls called, but still many more should've been called. Changing my pace and style (laying off turbo, being more deliberate w/passes,etc.), and not becoming frustrated helps deal. I just got tired of playing him. If you're saying [your] sim style should win out above all else, I'm not sure what to tell you. It's a video game. I don't like throwing that out there as if it's an excuse, because I feel 2K can do more to discourage that style of play. But on some level you have to be reasoned enough to understand it's a videogame where they're trying to find some sense of balance between online/offline, arcade/simulation style play

We can all agree on this: NBA 2K12 is designed to be a 5 on 5 basketball game that replicates the style and nuances of the NBA. Compared to other sports games not including MLB: The Show and the NHL series, it represents its respective league pretty well and accurately.

With this being an NBA simulation product, ideally, a user should be expected to know NBA basketball and strategy. They should know that Brook Lopez is not a three point threat. They should know that Rajon Rondo is not a consistent jump shooter. They should know that double teaming means leaving an offensive player open. This being the NBA, the greatest collection of basketball talent in the world, even an average player can make a wide open shot consistently.

Unfortunately, the average NBA 2K12 online player doesn't know this. Myself and other "sim" players, on the other hand, should know this. Therefore, the advantage should go to us providing we're utilizing our team to its strengths and taking advantage of our opponents mistakes. However...

...this patch negates that. Steal spamming should not even had been an effective strategy in the first place for 2K to feel the need to patch in changes to limit its effectiveness. Continuously trying to steal the ball should result in one of two things: a reach-in foul called and said player getting fatigued because of his overaggressive play. It is for this reason that this strategy isn't used in the real NBA.

Unfortunately, neither effect happens the way it should when playing online. Since there are no consequences for such actions, cheesers continue to use that strategy since nothing is in place to discourage them. Could you imagine how many more bank robberies would occur if law enforcement officers didn't exist and there was no risk of being caught?

Now, as a "sim" player with adequate basketball knowledge, I know there are ways to counter this style of play. Assuming I have a good ballhandler, I can simply isomotion my way from the defender, keeping him from stealing the ball. I can also pass the ball to a teammate. He can't steal the ball if I don't have it in my hand, right?

Except, there is one problem with my strategy: it can't work! Why? Because passing is slow as molasses, and the defense is allowed to move faster than the ball. Also, whenever they try to steal, we both enter into an unbreakable animation where my ballhandler slows down. At this point, I am at the mercy of an animation. I can't pass the ball the moment I want to because of it. And even if I could, I'm not confident enough in the passing mechanics to be sure the ball where go where I intended.

If steal spamming doesn't work, there is also the tactic of getting the team like the Thunder and ballhogging with Durant and/or Westbrook. Because of the excessive sliding, it's hard sometimes to control the defense effectively enough to prevent penetration. When you add in the control lag, you can see how easily frustrating playing defense online can be. Sure, contested three pointers have been toned down, but other problems still remain.

Yes, I know it's a video game. I sort of figured that out when I bought it. But for it to be a video game that prides itself on realism, why am I wrong for pointing out flaws within the game that are, well, unrealistic?

[Mos1ted]

Quote: Originally Posted by greenegt

Is this just an online thing or does it happen offline, as well?

I'm mostly seeing it online, although it does exist offline to a degree. However, it's much more noticeable online, especially when you factor in the control lag.

[SteveM]

Quote: Originally Posted by dukedude24

so they didn't fix the trade logic in MP like Ronnie said they would......

Does this mean some giant crazy trade went down for you post-patch? Just before getting the patch, my center My Player asked for a trade from the Jazz and got traded to the Knicks ... who traded away Carmelo Anthony for Paul Milsap in the process. Now Milsap's playing the 3, which ... man, I just can't figure that one out. I was happy to be on the Knicks for a minute, then saw this. Hmm ...

[NINJAK2]

I agree with everything you said Mos1led with the exception to your theory that everyone who buys a sim sports game should have a bunch of real knowledge about said sport. Do you really think everyone who buys Madden/NCAA knows how to read coverage as a qb by eyeballing the safety or knows the difference between a cover 2 or cover 3 or knows the strengths/weaknesses for the personnel of every single team? Most people who buy these games just want to have fun playing with their favorite player or team-that's it. They are not all looking to channel their inner Larry Brown/Phil Jackson/Belichek and break things down to a science. Unfortunately these companies don't just make these games for the hardcore simheads but they have to make it for those kids or casual fans who just want to have fun and be successful and not sweat x's and o's. It is extremely hard to find that balance for both sides just like my sig says.

2k really needs lobbies again to seperate these kind of gamers though. Passing is just too complicated to me at this point. I know 2k made this change to make us value every possession but did they really have to make directional passing so inaccurate? It is to the point I'm scared to pass the ball in the halfcourt. Reaching in repeatedly should either get that defender out of position or result in a plethora of fouls on a high sim difficulty level. Like I said I have not played a steal spammer since the patch but I did feel it was rediculous before just like you.

I think this patch made it much easier to defend and nerfed 3pt shooting when defended which are most welcome.

[Mos1ted]

Quote: Originally Posted by NINJAK2

I agree with everything you said Mos1led with the exception to your theory that everyone who buys a sim sports game should have a bunch of real knowledge about said sport. Do you really think everyone who buys Madden/NCAA knows how to read coverage as a qb by eyeballing the safety or knows the difference between a cover 2 or cover 3 or knows the strengths/weaknesses for the personnel of every single team? Most people who buy these games just want to have fun playing with their favorite player or team-that's it. They are not all looking to channel their inner Larry Brown/Phil Jackson/Belichek and break things down to a science. Unfortunately these companies don't just make these games for the hardcore simheads but they have to make it for those kids or casual fans who just want to have fun and be successful and not sweat x's and o's. It is extremely hard to find that balance for both sides just like my sig says. 2k really needs lobbies again to seperate these kind of gamers though. Passing is just too complicated to me at this point. I know 2k made this change to make us value every possession but did they really have to make directional passing so inaccurate? It is to the point I'm scared to pass the ball in the halfcourt. Reaching in repeatedly should either get that defender out of position or result in a plethora of fouls on a high sim difficulty level. Like I said I have not played a steal spammer since the patch but I did feel it was rediculous before just like you. I think this patch made it much easier to defend and nerfed 3pt shooting when defended which are most welcome.

Like I've said before, basketball is one of the simplest sports around. It doesn't require a doctorate degree to know how to play.

You don't have to know the triangle offense to execute it in the game. That's why there are diagrams on the floor that direct you on what to do.

There is also a ton of individual tutorials to help casual users learn different aspects of basketball and the controls. The dev team includes these features because even they feel everyone should play the game in respect to realistic basketball strategies and principles.

The disconnect, however, is that certain gameplay functions aren't working properly, which in turn allow "non-basketball strategies" to actually work. I don't feel 2K intended for that to happen. However, if we don't point it out and bring it to their attention, it's likely an issue that would not be addressed.

I wish there was a better matchmaking system in place so we could play randoms closer to our individual basketball IQ's. Since there isn't, we have to deal with playing whoever the game matches us up with.

If a cheeser gets beat soundly by a smarter player, he should use that as a learning opportunity to get better. That's why I appreciate a game like The Show. It forced me to learn more about the game of baseball. The game didn't cater to my skill and lack of baseball knowledge. Instead, I had to cater to it, and if I wanted to be successful against the CPU and online opponents, I had to learn baseball. If a person doesn't want to put in that kind of work, why buy a game meant to be a simulation?

I'm not going to buy NHL 12 and expect to play it like it's NHL Hitz, then complain that the game is too hard. The same goes for FIFA, PES, and other sports simulations. The knock on Madden is that it's not the simulation it pretends to be.

It's like first person shooters. You don't need extensive military knowledge to be successful in a game like Call of Duty. However, you do need military knowledge, whether it be first-hand experience or learning real life military tactics, to be good at a game such as Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising. Having served in the military, I stay away from games like Call of Duty because I know the game is not meant to be a realistic representation of military tactics. I know I would get bored playing that game because it goes against what I have been taught. However, I love a game like Operation Flashpoint because of its focus on realism.