NBA 2K12 Impressions, Q&A (From Hands-On Event in Washington, DC)

[NY State of Mind]

^^^^^^^
Just curious but what was the percentage differences between the 60s vs now or whatever stats you were posting? Cause maybe they averaged more shots cause overall they missed more...I doubt it but its possible...its not like I'm an expert since I wasn't around to watch 60 bball

[qpc123]

Quote: Originally Posted by NY State of Mind

^^^^^^^ Just curious but what was the percentage differences between the 60s vs now or whatever stats you were posting? Cause maybe they averaged more shots cause overall they missed more...I doubt it but its possible...its not like I'm an expert since I wasn't around to watch 60 bball

In 1965 Cincinnati Royals led the league with a 44.7 FG% the average was 42.6%, the Royals also led in PPG at 114.2 and the average was 110.6. To compare to last season(which is easiest since that is essentially what 2k12 will represent out of the box) Boston shot 48.6% to lead the league and the average was 45.9%, Denver led the league at 107.5 PPG and the average was 99.6.

While teams shoot a higher % now they still score at lower amount of points per game because the pace of play(tempo) is slower than it was in 1965. Defensive intensity is also a likely reason why today's game is lower scoring(more athletic defenders as well) but that does not wholly account for the drastic difference in shot attempts between the eras.

I'll refer to Bill Simmons "Book of Basketball" and give you a comparison between 1962 Wilt Chamberlain and 1972 Kareem Abdul-Jabar.

Wilt - 80 GP, 48.5 MPG(must have had a lot of OT games), 50.4 PPG, 25.7 REB, 2.4 AST, 39.5 FGA, 20.0 FGM, 50.6 FG%, 13.3 FTA, 6.7 FTM, 61.3 FT%

Kareem - 82 GP, 44.2 MPG, 34.8 PPG, 16.6 REB, 4.9 AST, 24.9 FGA, 14.3 FGM, 57.4 FG%, 9.0 FTA, 6.2 FTM, 69.9 FT%

This illustrates the "statistical inflation" that took place during the early-mid 60's. Wilt scored 40% of his teams total points in '62 and Kareem scored 30% of his teams total points in '72 but Kareem did it more effectively. Not that this is a comparison of Wilt vs. Kareem but it is a good example of the best players from each of those seasons.

Basically teams shot more and at lower % in the 60's, this leads to one conclusion in my opinion, a faster tempo game.

One final point to further illustrate my Russell as a great passer point from earlier. This is a quote from John Havlicek's 1977 autobiography "Hondo". "People think of him(Russell) in terms of defense and rebounding, but he had been the key to our offense. He made the best pass more than anyone I ever played with....His ability as a passer, pick-setter, and general surmiser of the offense has always been overlooked." I'd imagine no-one hear was around to watch Russell play, but Hondo's word is good enough for me when it comes to this topic.


Again I apologize for veering off topic, but he asked so I answered. If you want to discuss this further I am willing to do so, but we either need a different thread(probably in the general basketball forum) or through private messages.

[leo14812]

i didn't see answer so i ask you again : is the 3 pt lign is different as the 95/96/97 years ? (in 2k11 there was no difference) i think you can respond this question!!

wikipedia : Concerned about the fall of address of players, the NBA has brought the line during the three seasons 1994-95 , 1995-96 and 1996-1997 its usual distance of 7m23 (23 feet, 9 inches) 6m70 (22 feet) . Dennis Scott took the opportunity to set a new record number of baskets successful season: 267 in 1995-96, beaten later. But after three seasons, the NBA returns to the original distance of 7m23.

[Vast]

Quote: Originally Posted by NY State of Mind

^^^^^^^ Just curious but what was the percentage differences between the 60s vs now or whatever stats you were posting? Cause maybe they averaged more shots cause overall they missed more...I doubt it but its possible...its not like I'm an expert since I wasn't around to watch 60 bball

I personally think it has to do with the game being more chaotic in the olden days and they definitely missed more often which attributed to the higher field goal attempts.

But I think that does mean it was a faster pace. But i would have to imagine that it would be slower and less organized in the half-court game than in the modern era. There was no shot clock back then and teams would hold on to the ball for more than 24 seconds per possession.


Aholbert. Did you notice the new ball tracking during blocks and block attempts???

[GHOSTFACE03]

I have a question about 2k12, will the cheating ai be fixed? The things that happen in this game to favor the ai and make fake difficulty(see tvtropes) are ridiculous(like how the ai on your team seems to purposely play stupidly to make the game more challenging). Seriously nothing can kill a game more than unrealistic ai cheating. Please watch these videos and tell me this won't be happening in 2k12. Also unnecessary animations need to be TAKEN OUT. LESS ANIMATIONS MORE CONTROL. And what about fast-breaks? Will they still be messed up like last year? You guys were so close to making the perfect bball game with 2k11 but flaws hold it back, check the 2k forums and see all of the complaints. I would love to see nba 2k reach its potential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrTyG...bnns5A&index=4
Teammate ai purposly programmed to screw over the user?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs-MB...bnns5A&index=5
Fast-breaks messed up on purpose?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq3HL...bnns5A&index=6
Unnecessary animations?

Oh and you should also take a look at eventstatus(youtube channel that talks about various video games) video talking about 2k11. He hits on some key things you guys should fix as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOx0z...feature=relmfu

Also i read that you guys were going to fix the unrealistic way the computer would steal lose balls like they have spider sense(stealing the ball without even looking at it or seeing the pass) but then i read somewhere else that the ai would be playing the passing lanes tighter. What's going on with this issue?

PLEASE take a look at these videos and address these issues 2k. I've played your games since 2k on dreamcast. I'm not sure if i will buy 2k12 if these problems are still prevalent.

[NY State of Mind]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
He already stated back in his posts if you would search that those things have been vastly improved although not perfected....less animations, runners keep moving on fast break, and no AI cheese.

[kobe23323]

when it will release the NBA 2k12 demo for Xbox Live

[madmax17]

Quote: Originally Posted by qpc123

I agree, the 1965 Celtics averaged 107.6 FGA per game the league average was 99.8 attempts per game. By 1971 that number had decreased slightly to 105 FGA per game for the Celtics(league leaders both years) and the league average was 98 FGA. The number of games played was also 82 in 1971 as opposed to 80 in 1965. In 1976 the numbers continued to drop slightly to 97.3 FGA for the league leading Warriors(the were run and gun even back then, lol) and league average fell off to 91.7 FGA per game. Lets compare that to some more modern numbers. In 95-96 the Mavs led the league with 90 FGA per game but that was nearly 500 more attempts than 2nd place, the league average was just 80 FGA per game. In 2003-04 the Mavs once again led the league with 88 FGA per game and again took about 500 more shots than any other team, league average was 79.8 FGA(keep in mind that the Pistons and other teams took advantage of defensive rules that have since changed). This past season Golden State set the pace with 85.9 FGA and the average was 81.2 FGA. So in to sum all this up: 1965 Celtics=107.6 FGA per game, 2011 Warriors=85.9 FGA attempts per game, that's means the Celtics took 21.7 more shots per game than the 2011 Warriors. The league averages where 99.8 for 1965 and 81.2 for 2011 a difference of 18.6 FGA per game. While the majority players of the 60's and 70's where decidedly less athletic(let's face it a lot more awkward white guys played back then) that does not mean that the pace of play in the games was slower. The players should seem slower not the actual game it self. Bill Russell was known for his great defense and rebounding, but perhaps his most valuable attribute was after he got the ball(off a block which would keep in bounds or a defensive rebound) he was possible the best outlet passer ever(only rivals would be Wes Unseld or maybe Kevin Love). That was made those Celtics teams so dominant Russell could shut you down on one end and then create easy fast break buckets for teammates. Sorry to stray off topic, but I've been thinking about this ever since previews started mentioning how the Russell came felt slower and knowing that that was no the case.

But back then the defense was not as good and not nearly as physical, that's why they scored more points. Also I watched some Celtics games and they would shoot as soon as stepping on the opponents half.