NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Power Forwards

[cbpo]

Quote: Originally Posted by BluFu

I've done a lot of simming myself... the major problem has always been that rebound ratings were not distinct enough across the board. This lead to no outliers with 14+ RPG, and most guards grabbing 5+ a game... So I've had quite the opposite experience. Also in my own roster, I've got Lillard at a 83... I didn't go in and change the algorithm, I simply edited his ratings to reflect his inefficient scoring and subpar defense/playmaking. Again, Hakeem is without a doubt underrated in those areas. Iverson is looking like he has his shooting and defense overrated as well (had him in the high 80s in my roster). I'd like to continue this discussion once we can dive into the individual ratings for '16. I'll say this.. It's a lot easier to overrate a guard simply because of the amount of individual ratings that are important to the position. So what 2K needs to do is try and get more ratings that favor bigs in the game.

I worded it sort of incorrectly. The way 2k's system works especially for rebounding is that it's relative. So for example, I would re-do the ratings not on a HOF scale but just based off of current NBA leaders so lets say drummond/deandre are best rebounders, they would be 99 etc than everyone else would be based off of them with players averaging 10 boards usually in the very low 80's. Otherwise you do get the problem you mentioned where you have no outliers. But when you edit them the way I did, I was able to get drummond/deandre to about 13.8 boards a game where as normally they wouldn't average even 11 boards and then with this scale everyone else also had accurate rebound averages as they did in real life. Only issue is, that because drummond/deandre are so much better at rebounding than others, other pf's/bigs rebounding ratings would have to be dropped significantally to make it realistic and thus their overall ratings are dropped alot. And then as I would drop the guards rebound ratings, their overall wouldn't drop. So in order to get realistic rebounding averages etc most bigs would be rated probably 2-3 overall less than a guard that would be comparable to them in talent. It's possible they could've changed it but just seems unlikely with these Prime Malone and Duncan ratings. Pretty sure based off their old scale for example , Andre drummonds offensive rebound rating would have had to been like 120. He averages 6.3 ORB per 36 but in the game it's hard to even get him to 4. So if this is still the case, def needs some tweaking.

[Real2KInsider]

Quote: Originally Posted by cbpo

Only issue is, that because drummond/deandre are so much better at rebounding than others, other pf's/bigs rebounding ratings would have to be dropped significantally to make it realistic and thus their overall ratings are dropped alot.

The core issue is rebounding simply isn't that important for a PF nowadays.
It is significantly less important than being able to consistently hit a three.

Guess how 2K's formula feels about that?

[BluFu]

Quote: Originally Posted by cbpo

Only issue is, that because drummond/deandre are so much better at rebounding than others, other pf's/bigs rebounding ratings would have to be dropped significantally to make it realistic and thus their overall ratings are dropped alot. And then as I would drop the guards rebound ratings, their overall wouldn't drop. So in order to get realistic rebounding averages etc most bigs would be rated probably 2-3 overall less than a guard that would be comparable to them in talent.

Yup that's very true. Goes back to what I said before though... there's just not enough ratings (or even badges) that favor bigs.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

The core issue is rebounding simply isn't that important for a PF nowadays. It is significantly less important than being able to consistently hit a three. Guess how 2K's formula feels about that?

The best power forward today has hit a total of 3 threes in his entire career. The best power forward of all time (according to many) has only hit 30 in a near 20 year span. Rebounding for a PF is significantly less important than hitting 3s? I don't think many would agree with that.

[Real2KInsider]

Paul Millsap (Age 29): All-Star
20.0 PER in 33 MPG
57 TS% on 24 USG% with 15 AST%
7 ORB%, 20 DRB%
2.8 STL%, 2.4 BLK%, 4.3 Fouls per 100 Poss

Paul Millsap (2015) with accurate ratings (i.e. no padded lies) = 79 OVR.
The average starting PF = 80 OVR.

Millsap Skill Grades (79 OVR)
Inside Scoring: B-
Mid-Range: B
3PT Scoring: B-
Playmaking: C
Perimeter Defense: B+
Post Defense: B
Rebounding: B-
Physicals: B
Basketball IQ: A

Average PF Skill Grades (80 OVR)
Inside Scoring: B-
Mid-Range: B-
3PT Scoring: C-
Playmaking: D+
Perimeter Defense: C
Post Defense: B-
Rebounding: B-
Physicals: C+
Basketball IQ: B

It is crystal clear that Paul Millsap is rated better than your average PF, yet his OVR rates below average.
The two areas Millsap is merely average in are "Inside Scoring" and "Rebounding".

The ONLY possible way for Millsap to come out below average is if the game is penalizing those "average" categories while barely caring about his numerous substantial advantages in other areas.

Thomas Robinson (79 OVR)
15.3 PER in 15 MPG
50 TS% on 20 USG% with 8 AST%
13 ORB%, 29 DRB%
2.0 STL%, 1.9 BLK%, 6.6 Fouls per 100 Poss

Robinson is clearly the worse player of the two. If anything he has similar production to that of a rookie Paul Millsap (17.8 PER in 18 MPG, 18 USG%, 15 ORB%) in a lower-usage bench role.

[b]Yet with fair ratings Robinson's OVR = Millsap. One of these players is an all-star that signed a new contract for 19M per. The other just signed for the minimum.

Reviewing his skills
Inside Scoring: C
Mid-Range: D-
3PT Scoring: F
Playmaking: D+
Perimeter Defense: C
Post Defense: C+
Rebounding: A+
Physicals: B-
Basketball IQ: C-

Average Starting PF
Inside Scoring: B-
Mid-Range: B-
3PT Scoring: C-
Playmaking: D+
Perimeter Defense: C
Post Defense: B-
Rebounding: B-
Physicals: C+
Basketball IQ: B

Robinson isn't remotely close to being an average PF. He is a one-trick pony, consequently a role player because of it, and yet look how far that trick takes him in the 2K formula.

Why this is a significant problem:

Thaddeus Young (74 OVR)
Inside Scoring: C+
Mid-Range: D+
3PT Scoring: C+
Playmaking: C-
Perimeter Defense: B
Post Defense: C+
Rebounding: C+
Physicals: B+
Basketball IQ: B

Thomas Robinson (79 OVR)
Inside Scoring: C
Mid-Range: D-
3PT Scoring: F
Playmaking: D+
Perimeter Defense: C
Post Defense: C+
Rebounding: A+
Physicals: B-
Basketball IQ: C-

Young is the better player in all but one regard, yet 2K values him significantly lower, to the point where he's the clear backup to Robinson when it should be vice-versa.

Quote: Originally Posted by BluFu

The best power forward today has hit a total of 3 threes in his entire career. The best power forward of all time (according to many) has only hit 30 in a near 20 year span. Rebounding for a PF is significantly less important than hitting 3s? I don't think many would agree with that.

Have fun with your narrow, contrarian approach.

[Real2KInsider]

NBA 2K's solution for Millsap is to inflate him in various areas to buff his OVR to an acceptable level. Do not believe them for a minute when they say they don't have specific OVR ratings in mind for players, it is a bald-faced lie.

Millsap (NBA 2K, 85 OVR)
Inside Scoring: A
Mid-Range: C+
3PT Scoring: C+
Playmaking: C
Perimeter Defense: C+
Post Defense: B
Rebounding: A-
Physicals: C+
Basketball IQ: A

Millsap (Rashidi, 79 OVR)
Inside Scoring: B-
Mid-Range: B
3PT Scoring: B-
Playmaking: C
Perimeter Defense: B+
Post Defense: B
Rebounding: B-
Physicals: B
Basketball IQ: A

Pretty obvious where the ground gets covered.

Specifically, Millsap's attributes are
96/79 S/M Layup (63 FG%, 63% Ast'd)
88/75 S/M Close (36 FG%, 49% Ast'd)
89 Post Control (0.72 PPP, 13% of Possessions, 28.8 Percentile)
80/84 O/D Reb (20/10 points overrated by scale)

It is very clear from watching Paul Millsap he is a quality and effective player. Yet, an accurate representation of his versatility will not be fairly reflected in NBA 2K. Rather than spend time fixing this, 2K just spends time figuring out how many band-aids they should apply to a player.

It is NOT like they don't revisit these algorithms on a yearly basis. They have to adjust the formula every single time they add or remove an attribute. The changes they made in NBA 2K15 made the discrepancy WORSE than it was before, and I have been trumpeting that ever since I picked up on it.

[ClipsFanSince98]

Finally Griffin as a top 10 player gets a solid overall (usually he's only 83-85 ish). I agree with you guys though that the bigs formula is screwed and leads to inaccurate stats. On Griffin specifically his rebounding and passing get underrated a lot while his defense gets overrated.

Griffin usually averages 2-3 apg in these games where as in real life he's a consistent 4+ apg type player who averaged 5+ last season. Also rebounding is underrated because Griffin is actually a really good rebounder who's being hurt by DJ being next to him and the system Doc has in place. He led the NBA playoffs through 14 games this year at 12.7 rpg and he has a career average of about 10, despite the really down year last season where he played a ton on the perimeter and DJ averaged like 15 rpg.

[ClipsFanSince98]

Overall though... gotta say this may be the best year yet in terms of rati by accuracy outside of a few exceptions. But it's okay, I'd rather have to manually adjust a few ratings on my team (like lowering Jamal Crawford way down, Griffin a tad up on passing/rebounding) than them make a mediocre game like last year. They have a known pattern of every 2nd year being the big leaps and this year looks no different.

1. Huge jump to defensive system. Before you couldn't make a defensive specialist that worked much, because offense always beats defense in these games.

2. Higher IQ of the AI.

3. More depth to My Career.

4. Team relocation and rebrand.

I'm sold.

[eko718]

I agree about '02-'03 Dirk having a rating that is not consistent with his production. His numbers were pretty well rounded that year (25 ppg, 38.5% on 3pter's/4 attempts per game, 9.9 reb per game, 1.4 stls, 3 apg, and 1 bpg) and the way players seem to be rated currently compared to their stats, if he were rated accurately in each category it might yield a result closer to 90 than the 85 rating he has now.