Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

[Knight165]

Quote: Originally Posted by cardsleadtheway

I am not busting your chops here. I really want to know how you would go about this? I hear "improve trade logic" all the time, but no one ever suggests how; therefore, I wouldn't expect the developers to improve it. So how would you, or anyone that feel this way, go about improving it?

I actually see both sides of this...and thankfully, so do the guys at SCEA.
They are CONSTANTLY trying/testing/tweaking the trade logic.
Here is the problem with games that have both real players and generated ones....the "name" players such as Joe Mauer, we see as guys who wouldn't get traded...because he just signed a 10 year 155 gazillion dollar deal IRL.We freak if he gets moved.
In the game however, if his name was Joe Blow....and had just one year left on his contract with a team that has 10 holes to fill and just 25 million a year to do that....won't be able to keep such a player...so trades him, we would be fine with that.
That's just one aspect.

The guys on the dev team have to try and juggle both of those things and yet still make it interesting enough to a player that he feels like it's not locked in(and I don't mean that you often see the same trades in simming a season multiple times to test...obviously a team is filling the same need every time you are simming that year over and over each time)....

I give grief where it is due and props where it is due and I give a little bit of both to Kolbe and the guys on this part of the game. It's tough for certain.

M.K.
Knight165

[Rwings832]

Quote: Originally Posted by Knight165

I actually see both sides of this...and thankfully, so do the guys at SCEA. They are CONSTANTLY trying/testing/tweaking the trade logic. Here is the problem with games that have both real players and generated ones....the "name" players such as Joe Mauer, we see as guys who wouldn't get traded...because he just signed a 10 year 155 gazillion dollar deal IRL.We freak if he gets moved. In the game however, if his name was Joe Blow....and had just one year left on his contract with a team that has 10 holes to fill and just 25 million a year to do that....won't be able to keep such a player...so trades him, we would be fine with that. That's just one aspect. The guys on the dev team have to try and juggle both of those things and yet still make it interesting enough to a player that he feels like it's not locked in(and I don't mean that you often see the same trades in simming a season multiple times to test...obviously a team is filling the same need every time you are simming that year over and over each time).... I give grief where it is due and props where it is due and I give a little bit of both to Kolbe and the guys on this part of the game. It's tough for certain. M.K. Knight165

Thank Knight, and its always good to hear from someone who has an insight for how the developers are trying to improved the game.

I guess I would just be happy with some more classic stadiums, and could always work to improve the sim part of the game. I do really like the game how it is.

[Artman22]

This is a great game. To me the most important missing spark is presentation, especially the commentary team. New commentators is in desperate need at this point for the franchise. It needs to seem like they're talking to each other. More stat overlays during games. A nice weekly show. A lot more active jumbotron screens like in real games. Better bench interactions with the real players on the bench. Ability to argue calls with some type of reward or punishment. The possibility of hearing the players voices while arguing with umps. I believe these things would bring some new excitment to this good game of baseball. They're other things that can be improved in this game, but presentation to me is slacking a bit and could use some work..

[Comduklakis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Knight165

I actually see both sides of this...and thankfully, so do the guys at SCEA. They are CONSTANTLY trying/testing/tweaking the trade logic. Here is the problem with games that have both real players and generated ones....the "name" players such as Joe Mauer, we see as guys who wouldn't get traded...because he just signed a 10 year 155 gazillion dollar deal IRL.We freak if he gets moved. In the game however, if his name was Joe Blow....and had just one year left on his contract with a team that has 10 holes to fill and just 25 million a year to do that....won't be able to keep such a player...so trades him, we would be fine with that. That's just one aspect. The guys on the dev team have to try and juggle both of those things and yet still make it interesting enough to a player that he feels like it's not locked in(and I don't mean that you often see the same trades in simming a season multiple times to test...obviously a team is filling the same need every time you are simming that year over and over each time).... I give grief where it is due and props where it is due and I give a little bit of both to Kolbe and the guys on this part of the game. It's tough for certain. M.K. Knight165

Well I have no knowledge whatsoever of video game development. I just play em'. So I have no idea how to answer the question of how to improve trade logic other than to say to make it realistic. Obviously in the case of a situation like NBA2k where guys are being traded four and five times during the season, often for the same guys and back to original teams, the logic is flat broken. Thankfully The Show isn't that bad. However, to take Mauer as an example, the Twins just opened up a new stadium. They are title contenders. Mauer is a hometown kid who is the face and heart of the franchise and he signed a big contract. One month into the season, you trade him??? That to me seems pretty basic. And whether it's joe blow the CPU created player or Mauer, don't stockpile guys at the same positions and don't trade stars if you are contending and have the budget. So again I don't know the programming side of it, I just ask for a more logical system. How they do that is up to the smart people that make the game.

[Knight165]

Quote: Originally Posted by Comduklakis

Well I have no knowledge whatsoever of video game development. I just play em'. So I have no idea how to answer the question of how to improve trade logic other than to say to make it realistic. Obviously in the case of a situation like NBA2k where guys are being traded four and five times during the season, often for the same guys and back to original teams, the logic is flat broken. Thankfully The Show isn't that bad. However, to take Mauer as an example, the Twins just opened up a new stadium. They are title contenders. Mauer is a hometown kid who is the face and heart of the franchise and he signed a big contract. One month into the season, you trade him??? That to me seems pretty basic. And whether it's joe blow the CPU created player or Mauer, don't stockpile guys at the same positions and don't trade stars if you are contending and have the budget. So again I don't know the programming side of it, I just ask for a more logical system. How they do that is up to the smart people that make the game.

You seem to be answering to another poster as well in your reply here, but quoting my reply....so I'll just stick to what I was trying to get across.
Your reply here confirms what I thought and that is ...that you are absolutely falling into the trap of "the name". You are taking real life situations...ie...."they are in contention"(they may or may not be in the game...so this is absolutely irrelevant to what the CPU should be looking at..."he is the face of the franchise" and "he is a hometown kid"(the game does not recognize this.....and ironically enough, I've argued for some sort of "star system" or "franchise tag" to be implemented in the game to remedy this situation in some way...but considering right now that the game looks at every player the same way in regards to it's budget/importance to team/contract/age/potential.....you can only really look at this in terms of logic...and "the new stadium" angle(would be cool...but c'mon)
So...let's look at the game and the way it looks at the Twins.
In my roster set....Mauer(player A) has a 5(1/5) year contract. He never gets dealed in the first few years....so I'm guessing with the set you are using he is in the last year of his contract and coming up for free agency.(1/1)
He is already making 12.6 million a year and is by far their best player.
In most sets I've seen....the Twins have 20 or 21 or their best rated players also in 1/1 contracts meaning they need to resign quite a bit of them or grab other players off the FA market.
More than half of those guys are making less than 1 million, I believe and the next closest guy to Mauer is making half his salary. I believe it's Mauer at 12.6......Hudson at 6 mil.....Thome at 5.8...and then a big dropoff...so there isn't really a lot of money coming off their current payroll.
Most of those low money players, I don't believe are arbitration eligible...so I'm guessing it's going to be FA money.
They usually have between 23 and 26 mil in excess to start season 1, so it's probably a little less than that at FA time.
You can see the quandary that the CPU is in.
At least it has enough sense at this point to realize it's not going to resign Player A at the 20 mil per he's going to ask and looks to shed contract for prospect.
Now....I know it sounds like I'm defending the CPU logic to the hilt...but I'm not...trust me...that's why I have a PS3 that I have just patch #1 on...where I put the CPU trades to AUTO...but with 30 team control, it brings the trade offer up on the screen and I allow it or reject it. But with the "Mauer" scenario as you put it...especially dragging real life points into it...just doesn't fly. Sorry.
Ways I think the trade logic can be improved?
-Star system...a player with 9 or 10 stars(editable in the editor) would be nearly impossible to pry from a team in contention...and would ask for the moon and stars if they are rebuilding.(this would be a Jeter, Rivera, MAUER) type player
-Tighten up the trade period...I agree...I think the big trades start too early...and there should be a flurry and a lot of talk at the deadline
-Have current performance(stats) play a bigger role in trades(and FA)
-Have a GM "smartphone" in place...where you would receive messages when a team is shopping a player...perhaps with a list of players the CPU GM is interested in from your team. This would serve multiple purposes....cause the CPU GM of the third team the CPU is looking at for trade to perhaps try and up it's offers and it's less "in your face" when a big trade comes down......you kind of know it's coming down the pike.

I'm sure there are plenty of others...and again...I'm not defending the CPU all the way...but when guys start involving names with the current system, it just doesn't make sense to me.

With the stockpiling...yes...I see it...but I believe it might have something to do with secondary positions and the CPU wanting to try and convert one player to somewhere else...but then never does!
I know they added this with CP and wanting the CPU to use one or more as a RP.

M.K.
Knight165

[Heroesandvillains]

Knight, if my mind were as complex as yours, you would have just read my mind!!!

[Comduklakis]

Knights, I was responding also to another poster as well as you. But as for Mauer, the attempted trade by the Twins was in may 2010, the first year of my franchise. I actually like when the CPU acts like a real life team and moves a star player when the team is rebuilding. I hold almost no one to be sacred to a franchise. My issue is when star players are traded when the team is in contention and when the player isn't in the last year of a contract or doesn't have a contract that is weighing the team down. One of my favorite parts of 30 team control in NBA 2k was playing GM and working the salary cap to create cap space for Free agents for some teams, pick up pieces for the stretch run for others, stockpile draft picks, etc. I certainly don't begrudge the CPU doing the same thing, if it's done logically and appropriately. My complaint is that I seen inappropriate moves like teams with proven closers offering 3 year contracts for 43 year old Billy Wagner or rebuilding teams offering seven million dollar a year deals to Troy Glaus. Or of course the stockpiling of multiple top players at the same position. I understand the game doesn't understand the intangible benefits that Mauer brings to the Twins, and I advocate a system like you that does take that into account. But I'm not actually hung up on names. I'd be just as upset if Joe Blow had signed a big long term deal with a contending team and then was immediately traded.

At the same time, it's possible my standards for logic in free agency and trades is higher than the current programming capablilities. It's why I do appreciate the 30 team option.

[Knight165]

Quote: Originally Posted by Comduklakis

Knights, I was responding also to another poster as well as you. But as for Mauer, the attempted trade by the Twins was in may 2010, the first year of my franchise. I actually like when the CPU acts like a real life team and moves a star player when the team is rebuilding. I hold almost no one to be sacred to a franchise. My issue is when star players are traded when the team is in contention and when the player isn't in the last year of a contract or doesn't have a contract that is weighing the team down. One of my favorite parts of 30 team control in NBA 2k was playing GM and working the salary cap to create cap space for Free agents for some teams, pick up pieces for the stretch run for others, stockpile draft picks, etc. I certainly don't begrudge the CPU doing the same thing, if it's done logically and appropriately. My complaint is that I seen inappropriate moves like teams with proven closers offering 3 year contracts for 43 year old Billy Wagner or rebuilding teams offering seven million dollar a year deals to Troy Glaus. Or of course the stockpiling of multiple top players at the same position. I understand the game doesn't understand the intangible benefits that Mauer brings to the Twins, and I advocate a system like you that does take that into account. But I'm not actually hung up on names. I'd be just as upset if Joe Blow had signed a big long term deal with a contending team and then was immediately traded. At the same time, it's possible my standards for logic in free agency and trades is higher than the current programming capablilities. It's why I do appreciate the 30 team option.

Gotcha.
I guess I misread you on the name aspect. Sorry.
As for the stockpiling....I think it's because the devs wanted teams to take into account the possibilities of moving a player to a new position.
I agree it does happen too often and at times makes little sense.
I know that's what they wanted with the CP----->RP(which I wouldn't mind in Wag's case as long as they put him in the setup spot and didn't blow 15 million for him for the year at 43).
...and I truly don't think that the logic is limited by the programming capabilities...but actually in the amount of variables the team has in place right now. I do think and hope that they would add such things as a "star system"(that a certain player would mean more to his current team rather than another club)....and things of that nature.
I'm all for adding any new and good dimensions to the game as the more complex it gets...the more I enjoy playing vs. the CPU GM's.
Sounds like you(and others) feel the same.

M.K.
Knight165