Madden NFL 13 Title Update #3 Arrives October 16th, Edit CCM Rosters and More

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

This is the key right here. The ability of the CPU teams to rigorously analyze players and draft, trade, release, place on the depth chart, sub, formation sub, etc. needs to be improved exponentially. This goes for Madden, NCAA, and other sports games like NBA 2K, and The Show as well. The programming for how this is done is still too rudimentary.

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

It just seems that in sports games in general, positions are "easy ways out" instead of programming sports games like the sports actually work - based on player skills, which indicate how they should be best used. It's "easier" to force a player to be a "LB" and then give him weaker "LB skills" so he's a marginal starter than to make a player that's non-descript in general, but better than a scrub so you put him where he does the least damage to your overall scheme, as you look/hope for an upgrade or further development.

This is exactly what I was getting at but KBLover went into far more detail. Team management should be about utilizing the best skill set at given positions, according to a teams scheme/strategy, not predetermined. The issue with just bringing back position editing is that it still does not address the AI/CPU teams making those decisions. Simply removing the predetermined positions makes it possible for all teams to assign what they believe are best players is at each position.

I think it would be sweet and realistic to see a CPU team like the Colts, take a QB in the 3rd round, then later see that player at WR on their depth chart. Also to Jfsolo's point, the Ai/CPU needs to be programmed to make those position assignments in formation subs, not just the depth chart. I don't feel this upgrade is even that difficult considering the Gamepalnning feature from M12. It seems simple enough to add the capability to do formation subs within Gameplanning so teams can utilize different personnel packages.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by ozzy57

The problem I have with this is why talk about players who can play a LB or DE in the draft if we can't edit their position to that? It seems that if you had this in your game already as draft speech that it should have been built to allow for that. I do understand the problem with it is that some people could try and move a QB to S or something that doesn't happen but the trend in the NFL has been to move aging corners to a safety position and of course OLB's to DE's. There have been several cases where players move from QB to WR. I have read some people saying they only have a 1 year build cycle but technically according to Josh they were working on this for 2 years. I truly feel the team dropped the ball on this years Madden so many problems for the "Future Franchise mode of ALL Sports Games"

This the key right here for me because doing away with predetermined positions in team management would also mean having to make skill rating differential matter for more and the Infinity Engine account for physics entirely. If I decide to put Santana Moss on the OL then the animation system linked to ratings and the Infinity Engine should be capable of representing how poor he would perform at that position in the depth chart, given his inept skill set and physical stature as an OL.

I think all the general positions in the depth chart should have applicable animations to represent a range of technique/ability to perform that position. Even a LT should have different animations from a RT and the IE should account for the physics calculations.

[ozzy57]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

This the key right here for me because doing away with predetermined positions in team management would also mean having to make skill rating differential matter for more and the Infinity Engine account for physics entirely. If I decide to put Santana Moss on the OL then the animation system linked to ratings and the Infinity Engine should be capable of representing how poor he would perform at that position in the depth chart, given his inept skill set and physical stature as an OL. I think all the general positions in the depth chart should have applicable animations to represent a range of technique/ability to perform that position. Even a LT should have different animations from a RT and the IE should account for the physics calculations.

This was directed at Emm about position changing in M13 but I'm glad it could help you make your point.

[adriano]

Emdot.. I have heard that tuners would not be able to address
the problems in the game. When patch 3 drops, will tuners be
released periodically? Will the new patch be able to be tuned?
Are tuners not apart of the game anymore?

[gzenius]

position changes should be easy, just limit each position to certain positions.. like fb/te, all o-line interchangeable or maybe just lt/rt and g/c.. cb/fs/ss..

i guess there would be a problem on defense because of de/olb.. de/dt should be interchangeable too but then people could get lbs at dt and have their front 7 all fast lbs.. maybe limit the position changes by their "base" position or something if thats possible.. if they could do that they could do qb to wr and maybe have some athletic qbs in draft classes that had really low throwing stats with storylines about how they might be better fit for wr and it's up to you to decide how to try and develop them.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

If I decide to put Santana Moss on the OL then the animation system linked to ratings and the Infinity Engine should be capable of representing how poor he would perform at that position in the depth chart, given his inept skill set and physical stature as an OL.

Or just have his lowish RBS/F or PBS/F completely suck against even a poor DL's BSH rating.

Not to mention factor in STR as at least a modifier and Moss won't stand a chance.

To me, the issue isn't animations, is success probabilities and ratings not having typical position ranges. If the ratings aren't going to be relative (which would actually be a GOOD use of the position label, a WR's STR is less than a DT's STR, even if the actual rating is the same) then a WR needs to have a max strength and blocking lower than any DL's STR and BSH in the game. As physical as a guy like Hines Ward was, he would not last on the OL.

[sublime7]

Quote: Originally Posted by sublime7

hey EMMDOT, quick question: will the patch do anything to change certain preexisting injuries? such as terrell suggs is listed for 30 weeks, making it impossible for him to play in the nov game that hes apparently scheduled to debut it. also, when we be able to use a roster update on online ccm? cant find that anywhere. so sick of dennis pitta having to be a 68 in online ccm, when hes a 77 in the current rosters i would turn off preexisting injuries but its so annoying having every teams injuries wiped out week to week

Seriously guys, no answer to any of this? Where you at, EMMDOT? help me out, youre my only hope.

[rudyjuly2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

This the key right here for me because doing away with predetermined positions in team management would also mean having to make skill rating differential matter for more and the Infinity Engine account for physics entirely. If I decide to put Santana Moss on the OL then the animation system linked to ratings and the Infinity Engine should be capable of representing how poor he would perform at that position in the depth chart, given his inept skill set and physical stature as an OL. I think all the general positions in the depth chart should have applicable animations to represent a range of technique/ability to perform that position. Even a LT should have different animations from a RT and the IE should account for the physics calculations.

So true. EA uses a player's position to account for far too much. We've seen some of those videos that show a 150 pound LT successfully pass block a 300 pound Pro Bowl DE. That's ludicrous. I don't care how good his technique is, he's going to get steamrolled every time. Sheer weight and strength have to be factored in more. True global ratings by position would fix that ALONG with real physics. The Infinity Engine is not a physics engine right now - it's just a tackling system.

Awareness is the one attribute that may cause problems but the only position it really affects is QB. They should change the label to QB vision and drop awareness as a catch-all for every other position in the game. Some might think this is bad but why? Every other position in Madden has attributes that take care of it and make it unnecessary.

RB has ball carrier vision
WR/TE has route running
OL - doesn't have anything specific but other than adding a snapping rating to determine who can play center it's not necessary
DEF - they all have play recognition, pursuit ratings along with coverage, block shedding and tackle attributes. Why add awareness on top of those?

Madden needs to simplify the ratings and put more emphasis on physics. Instead we have a hard ratings based game that puts far too little emphasis on physics.