Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

i respect that totally. thats how you choose to play the game. for me to win and to fit my defensive scheme - shields at FS is who I user control - with his catching rating and his blazing speed he allows me to cover more ground. putting him in position there gives me the best chance to win. kinda like using Aaron Hernandez at HB even though he is a TE. why is one way or the other the way the game is supposed to play?

It's not about the Hernandez at fb that bothers me, but you said exaclty what illustrator just posted about and that's speed. The depth of the field is far too narrows in relation to the speed of these players who can cover any route they see fit,. If this was a true type of scheme then GB would have been a whole lot better on defense.

This is where wanting physics and weight to come into play because its to easy to navigate these players around or across the field as they just slide around regardless of their momentum and position kn the field. Trust and believe if all this was accounted for, you better had made the right choice on what player you chose to Target or it would really cost you lime it should now.

But playing safety or any secondary position, do you take a read step first or do you you just go in blazing?

I swear to you this would cut a lot of that kamikaze gameplay out I see daily, but ill post a vid up when I get home.

Another thing, is it cheesy of.me to continue to bore myself running the same defense over and over because my opponent wants to do the same on offense? I try to mix up my D but its hard when only a handful of plays can counter the everyday cheesy stuff.

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

I user control him...so in theory his awr is 100 haha - prolly a 99 not sure im that aware

This is another thing that really needs to be addressed.

Taylor Mays isn't the best safety in the league but if you are controlling him he may as well be. They need some sort of system that actually lets using a crafty veteran or just a very smart player worthwhile. Something like their old Smart QB/LB Weapon where you could see certain assignments.

Not sure how you'd make a system like that work in a face to face game but there should be something to make it so that the guys with all the physical attributes aren't necessarily the best players. This goes over to WR more than any position in my opinion because if you have a 6'4" WR then you can dominate shorter CB's all day long in Madden with face throws and the strange fact that routes like the man beating wheel route is more consistent when you run it with a poor route runner. For instance Tori Gurley should never be seeing the field with GB but I know people who use him for his low route running and height....there is something wrong with that.

EDIT:

Oh while it is still fresh in my mind after watching someone do it. How in the world could they have missed the glitch where you can run out of the end zone and then back through the back of the endzone on a kickoff and not have count as a safety during the development cycle?

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

It's not about the Hernandez at fb that bothers me, but you said exaclty what illustrator just posted about and that's speed. The depth of the field is far too narrows in relation to the speed of these players who can cover any route they see fit,. If this was a true type of scheme then GB would have been a whole lot better on defense.

It doesn't help that other than Woodson that secondary was lost this year. Nobody understood how important Collins was to the communication back there until he was gone. I'm sure Woodson could have played a similar role but when you are the joker in your scheme and line up at basically every position on the field you're not always in position to make the calls.

Also I agree on how much ground players can cover. Running 4 Verts against Cover 3 should be automatic if you read the safety correctly but occassionally if the safety takes the TE (on the post ) the CB can still manage to break off of the outside and actually make a play on the ball even though you made the correct read. Now this is a rarer example as in most cases 4 verts kills cover 3 like it should but occassionally you'll get a play out of guy who should never have made that play. Hopefully read and react defense fixes issues like that and separates the true play makers from the rest of the pack.

[Illustrator76]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

I user control him...so in theory his awr is 100 haha - prolly a 99 not sure im that aware

Just to clarify before I am out for good. The whole strategy portion of my last post wasn't directed at you. I know you know NFL strategy, but I also know why you have Shields at Safety, because his speed is more valuable than any other attribute in Madden, and you can basically take away the entire defensive backfield with him because of his wheels.

O.K., now I'm out.

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

I fully agree with Big F, its not even remotely close to playing football at all when playing these tourney players. I mean in the NFL I'm sure coaches are pulling out there best stuff all the time but someone has to win. But the point is that these teams are not finding loopholes in the coaching or refereeing the game to achieve success. I see most players run atleast these 3-4 routes a game with great success to the same spot on the field to the same wr. Slants deep Post corner to the TE or the slot Or that mysterious quick out pass that has the intended wr 5yds or more up field the second the ball is hiked And the curl route that seems to always work when the wr isn't looking and your defender is.but the animation won't let you get to the ball before the wr does. Just tourney style is a style that shouldn't even exist, to me tourney style means I'm bringing my "A game" and trying to do my best at beating my opponent playing football. Freestyle term seems weird, I think it should have more to do with just running a certain type of offense and defense without exploiting the game. Yet its all that and some. The biggest copy cat tourney scheme that killed my nerve was the use and abuse of jermichael finley being put at wr the whole game and rocket catching every pass thrown to him. But in order to achieve success in stopping or slowing it down was to either nano or shake blitz to get pressure if you didn't have a man on Jim to press him at the line long enough to force a throwes elsewhere. It was either for a while intolerable someone found a sort of stable def playmaker to counter this, but it still would be a crap shoot. If you feel you good without these cheap tactics like most of the freestyle community seems to feel they are, then why even bother playing this way and ruining someone else enjoyment when the name of the game is Madden NFL Football, not blitz or NFL Jam.

Sorry if this post doesnt make a ton of sense when read in full but I use the dashes to break up different thought points
===============

If you see the same routes/plays used against you it is for a reason.....

Tourney players set up offensive plays to attack your defense.. Different players set up plays differently but they have the same overlying theme

a play has 5 eligible receivers..Now with those receivers I can make a play that can beat cover 3,2,4, and man coverage...And guess what it is fundamentally sound X's and O's wise

X-------LB------00000--------A----------B
--------------------Q
--------------------Y

B- curl
A- seam
Y- flat
LB- in route
X- streak

A+B+Y= curl flat route combo that beats
cover 3 with the curl
cover4 with the flat
cover 2 with the seam
and can beat man with the curl

Lb's in route is another viable option vs man because of the players inside break

X's streak is just for spacing

this play is something that can be run over and over and it is X's and O's wise 100% realistic... and something that you would see in a NFL playbook....But prob X's route would be a dig for the FOLLOW ROUTE COMBO

it is up to you to make adjustments to your defense to defend it...

Just like how I posted a couple of pages back about how my High School defense only played cover 3 and had certain rules for offensive sets, think of those as madden adjustments....Its like finding the pieces to the puzzle.

The offensive play above can be cracked..you just have to make the defensive rules to defend it.....If you dont defend it JUST LIKE IN REAL LIFE you will see it over and over until you do.

If you keep running pure man you will keep getting an offensive play that will beat it..its up to you to complete the puzzle you need to stop it..

Same with pure cover 2..if you keep running it you will get plays over and over that will take advantage of your deep safeties coverage...

X--------------LB------00000------------A-------------B
---------------------------Q
---------------------------Y

if your in cover 2 you will keep seeing
X-streak
LB- in route
A- post
B- streak
Y- block

I will run streaks to take care of your safeties and run a post right between them......If your MLB covers it than the in route will be open where he left

or I could run 4 verts and put the running back on a curl....same thing

if you dont defend it thats all you will see just like in real life..

on coachhuey.com there are threads made over and over again about "what do you do vs cover 3/4/2?"

anf guess what? those guys answer and say if I get__________ I will run________ until they stop it

Its realistic.....And if you get the same routes/plays over and over its being called for a reason...


=======================
madden is a competitive played game. Just like with EVERY OTHER competitive played game the players will do everything within the rules to win.

Same with Halo, COD, 2k basketball, street fighter/any fighting game...it doesnt matter. If it is competitively played than players will do everything within the rules to get a victory.

The only thing that sim players can really use as a argument in their favor is the fact that madden is TRYING to replicate a simulation of the sport of football therefore it should be played like football.

(sidenote: a good amount of of sim league rules do not replicate football..but thats neither here nor there)


Now at the end of the day it comes down to what can and what cant be done in the game..That falls on EA's shoulders. Despite what you guys thing EA making a move towards a more realistic game is what the MAJORITY of tourney players want. But its no use in breaking down AGAIN why tourney players want a realistic game because every time I type it out people just dismiss it.

But these players can only do what the game allows them to do. You cant RC if its not possible to RC..you get my point

(sidenote: the RC in M12 is not even worth the effort to pull it off.....and if you get hit in the act you drop the ball most times...if your OPP is RC'ing they would have made the catch regardless because out 8/10 times their guy was open)


Even the shake blitz (which a lot of tourney guys hate themselves) the reason that it is used is because It has NOT BEEN FIXED IN 3 YEARS...And it isnt the blitz itself thats the issue, its the fact that the blitzers are already accelerated by the time the ball is snapped because of the movement from shake..

But at the end of the day is it the players fault that things like that have not been addressed? If there is a map glitch in call of duty is it the players fault if it isnt fixed 3 months into the game?


===================
But here is where the developers are put in a catch 22, damned if they do damned if they dont in regards to blitzing...

No Defensive tackles SHOULD NOT be the players who come free in blitzes.. ANd that needs to be fixed. But there are no protection rules set in madden and I myself would like Big on Big priorities ... Lineman are bigger threats than LBs and focus on picking them up first.


============
But the devs cant fix what Sim Players want them to fix without compromising FOOTBALL. If I send 4 rushers to your 3 blockers a player NEEDS to come free....

If you dont slide protect or have equal blockers WHO CAN MAKE THE BLOCK there needs to be a guy free..

If the OL just magically makes the adjustments THAT THE USER SHOULD HAVE and they pick the blitz up they compromise FOOTBALL

(and honestly we have almost been to that point with backside tackles and guards magically running to the opp side of the field to pick up blocks)

And tourney players feel like sim players DO NOT TAKE IT UPON THEMSELVES to set up their protections or hot reads like they need to to be successful..

THAT SIM PLAYERS JUST WANT IT TO MAGICALLY HAPPEN...Thats how tourney players feel.

And there is NO BLITZ that can not be handled in madden. You can pick every thing up or you can have your hot reads ready to make the Defense pay for trying your knowledge...

Even in those blitzes that DTs come free if you were to look at the after game replays you would still see a blitzers number advantage vs blockers...SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE COME FREE...regardless

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

It's not about the Hernandez at fb that bothers me, but you said exaclty what illustrator just posted about and that's speed. The depth of the field is far too narrows in relation to the speed of these players who can cover any route they see fit,. If this was a true type of scheme then GB would have been a whole lot better on defense. This is where wanting physics and weight to come into play because its to easy to navigate these players around or across the field as they just slide around regardless of their momentum and position kn the field. Trust and believe if all this was accounted for, you better had made the right choice on what player you chose to Target or it would really cost you lime it should now. But playing safety or any secondary position, do you take a read step first or do you you just go in blazing? I swear to you this would cut a lot of that kamikaze gameplay out I see daily, but ill post a vid up when I get home. Another thing, is it cheesy of.me to continue to bore myself running the same defense over and over because my opponent wants to do the same on offense? I try to mix up my D but its hard when only a handful of plays can counter the everyday cheesy stuff.

First off...Any and everything"cheesy" can be countered IN A MULTITUDE OF WAYS

======


But you say that because of the lack of momentum and what not that player is able to glide around and make a play on something he normally would not......That is true to an extent but at the same time M12 isnt last gen maddens

Last gen maddens I literally could cover 30yds horizontally with a free safety within the time of the throw to the catch...That is most def not the case in M11 or M12.

Players read your route combos and are able to gauge where you want to go with the ball based off of what you run and what their defense is and they make educated guesses on where you are going with the ball.

M12 you cant take 4 false steps with your user defender and re route him another way to make a play on the ball like you could in M10 and previous.

And the depth of field isnt that far off. IRL if your already moving you can cover 10yds in a sec madden isnt too far off from that.

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by WFColonel56

And tourney players feel like sim players DO NOT TAKE IT UPON THEMSELVES to set up their protections or hot reads like they need to to be successful.. THAT SIM PLAYERS JUST WANT IT TO MAGICALLY HAPPEN...Thats how tourney players feel. And there is NO BLITZ that can not be handled in madden. You can pick every thing up or you can have your hot reads ready to make the Defense pay for trying your knowledge... Even in those blitzes that DTs come free if you were to look at the after game replays you would still see a blitzers number advantage vs blockers...SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE COME FREE...regardless

This is where I feel there is the biggest disconnect between the tourney crowd and the sim crowd. Sure there are some players who call themselves sim that don't understand how to adjust their protections and think that any play that frees up a rusher is a sin against the football gods. They simply want a more complete protection scheme as well as more blitz schemes that work as they would be drawn up in the NFL without all the reblitzing. There has been plenty of call to eliminate the psychic OL and to put more responsibility on the user to make the correct protection call but they first need to give us the proper protection calls.

The tounament crowd seems to think that the sim crowd wants everything done for them and that knowing how to beat protections and actually scheme protections shouldn't be part of the game but for the most part that isn't the case. I feel the reason for this disconnect is because the ones that tend to voice their concerns the loudest aren't a true representation of either group.

Blitzes for the Sim Player

That thread right there has over 22,000 views and I get about 5 pm's a week mentioning how thankful a player is that someone actually gave them some blitzes that 1.)Look realistic in execution, or 2.)Can be ran in their leagues. Other than that I get asked more than anything else is about protection schemes that don't involve motioning a WR into the middle of the line and how I go about finding blitzes. As I'm probably one of the most openly sim guys on that forum it tends to be sim players who are asking me these questions. We aren't as ignorant as the tourney crowd think, much like you guys aren't as football dumb as many in the sim crowd think.

[Big FN Deal]

I actually read the whole post but this part here pretty much sums it up.

"The only thing that sim players can really use as a argument in their favor is the fact that madden is TRYING to replicate a simulation of the sport of football therefore it should be played like football."

Madden is not an open world, choose your own adventure type vide game, it is supposed to be a NFL simulation video game. Madden is intended and created for gamers to simulate NFL football as best they can. If that is not a gamers intent when playing, they are trying to exploit the Madden game.

That said, gamers are free to do whatever they want when they play privately but EA shouldn't be promoting or overlooking that type of game play when directly affiliated with any Madden competition, as long as they continue to claim Madden is intended to be a NFL simulation.

For example, if EA is going to promote Virgin Gaming, I should expect a competition with rules and enforcement based on "TRYING to replicate a simulation of the sport of football", not some general video game competition where anything goes.