Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

[IntellectualAssassin]

^ GREAT post

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by timotomtime

my dude, what everyone wants is a better football game and madden simply isnt getting it done..... 2k is far from trash..... u may personally not like it but that doesnt make it a piece of crap. Madden has added alot of features that have been in previous games on previous generations but they are dancing around the real challenge of a RTPE (real-time-physics-engine). Its an increadibly hard thing to build while presentation and camera angles are piece of cake. ALot of people beileve if 2k was around, they would have accomplished this before backbreaker, madden would have probibly as well if they were pushed at all. madden needs to acknolage the elephant in the room or they are toast, 2k is already trying to free up capital for the licence and they can easy dip into 2k11 basketballs 300$ million dollars they made last year.....

Where are you getting this info from?

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by TombSong

So each year this group seeks a improvement on what they once had. Is there anything wrong with that ?

I'm assuming you haven't seen improvement up to this stage.

I agreed with most of your post, but to say there is no improvement towards the past competitor games is not really realistic.

The camera areas itself make it like a TV broadcast presentation, which you admitted when you said EA has caught up.

The tackling is improved immensely and more towards the other games. No more huggy feely protak type tackles.

Does it have a ways to go? You bet it does, but this is the first time since Madden 10 I'm happy the direction in which the series is going.

Like you said, there are two different types of groups. Neither group is wrong and both groups want an NFL type football game.

In my opinion, the 2 groups aren't that far apart.

[CRMosier_LM]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

And what does anything you said in that entire post have to do with somebody saying this: When the guy mentions a real time physics engine? And I mention that it's not such an outrageous thing to ask about and that it is at lest technically possible depending on how the code is written by using a higher level language and a compiler/linker? Explain it. Cause I see nothing at all in your post that relates to this. Do you believe that other guy should "think before he posts"? When he brings up "real time physics"? I've already explained why it's not such an outrageous thing to bring up. Or do you think it's OK for that guy who responded with "Actually think logically about what you're saying before typing." is right in basically saying "don't be stupid, it's not possible"? Please explain how anything in your post has anything to do with this. Because I do agree with you about only EA knows how they wrote there code. But what does that have to do with "is it possible"? and "was that first guy stupid"?

Once again, judging by the title of this thread, none of this talk belongs here what so ever.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Why exactly are we supposed to assume 2k would have come up with a real-time physics engine before Backbreaker, when, correct me if I'm wrong, NBA 2k11 didn't even have "real-time" physics, and that was their best game?

[Fr8Train]

I'll be honest.
When 2k5 came out, it wasn't the Glorified Cult Classic game that it is now.

It sold maybe just under 3 million world wide in 2005, while Madden sold just over 6.1 million in its first 10 weeks, I believe. This despite the $19.99 price tag or $21.99, or whatever cheapness it was.

The game play was horrendous, but the physics/graphics engine was better. That really was the only thing going for it.

Like most people, I don't care for the cut scenes, the intros, the halftime show...I click X to advance past those as quick as possible.

2k5 became a cult classic as soon as it lost its license. Then somehow it became the standard.... when it had just as many shortcomings a Madden did, if not more.

Truth is, both games had major issues. Where EA struggled, 2k5 thrived, and where 2k5 struggled, EA thrived.

[michigan21]

Quote: Originally Posted by TombSong

Lets be real here and not talk around the issue because its here and is nevr going away. There are those who are content with status quo from EA. There are those who don't know no better because they think what EA has offered to date is all that there is and can possibly be done. This group typically are the ones who make excuses for the games current state and expects everyone else to just fall in line like they have and just be content with less as they have. To that group I say, nothing wrong with that. If you are happy with what you got in your hands this year, I am glad you have peace and I aint mad at yah. There is another group that has seen better times, that have not forgotten what they had in other games. That groups standards are a bit higher than the others. So each year this group seeks a improvement on what they once had. Is there anything wrong with that ? Why can't this be discussed in a civil manner instead of treating a forum full of grown men like 12 year olds ?(discounting the guys who are actually 12 years old) 4 years ago a group of us could expect to see certain features and game play. That has been taken away from us by a "license deal". No matter what group you fall into and to the OS reviewers when you pick up this years Madden ask yourself can I: 1. Can I come out lined up in one formation then shift into the playcall formation for added strategy ? 2. Can I send more than one man in motion from any legal motion position(even after the formation shift) ? 3. Can I adjust my offensive line to double team the left DT or the right DT ? 4. Can I disguise my defensive coverage 1/2/3 deep with coverage shells ? 5. Can I easily make hot adjustments to my LBs and DBs without having to cycle through them all thus less micro management pre-snap ? 6. Can I get a play diagram to look at when calling audibles, not just a play name ? 7. Can I adjust those audibles on the fly while calling my play at the play call screen...no need to pause the game...no limit to the amount of audibles you can call ? 8. Can I call my Dline stunts separate from my play call and included in those stunts are twists left/middle/right side of the line...and hey work during run plays ? (Madden 12 your adjustments only work on pass plays, on run plays they get sucked into whatever the offensive line is doing...and you cant call twist stunts at all) 9. Can player abilities make each player have a distinct playability giving them a personality that is lacking in madden. Can the cpu run each team differently as though it has a game plan thus you dont feel like you are playing the same team and same coach over and over ? 10. Can I record how your friends play and make the cpu call plays like you friend would ? 11. Can there be 4 depth adjustments you can make(only 1 in madden) for the DBs plus you can shade inside or outside and do it much easier then the current madden 12 setup ? 12. Can there be Mulitple hit gang tackling where you the user can come in and actually influence the direction the tackle is going..plus you can reach out and grab ball carriers if engaged in a block ? 13. Can there be a multple choice penalty challenge system that works ? PLUS: Commentary that sounds like the commentators are in the same booth watching the same game, better animations, bigger player models, smarter AI, no warping, no psychic DBs, no super leaping LBs , no mario running, player specific jukes and running styles....(2k5 has a half time show that has not been matched to date) great presentation(Madden has just caught up) This was ALL possible 4 years ago. Is it unreasonable to expect those things to be in a game thats newer ? A standard was set that most game review sites ignore when they discuss Madden. Madden is not held to that standard. Madden is only compared to other Madden games. Do you who so staunchly defend it think thats right ? To those who get upset by the comparisons, how can you get angry at reality ? Reviewers, what in the game of Madden 12 is ground breaking ? What is the games strong points ? What I see: 1. A marginal graphic improvement...If someone had Madden 11 playing on my TV and said it was Madden 12, I could not tell by looking that they were telling a lie. Not speaking cutscenes or overlays here. Talking about what I see the most when playing this game, the players and the field. 2. Zig Zag player movement is slightly worse in this version than last years(probably because the game speed is faster) 3. Still have players that are unaware of the sidelines, I mean run their routes right out of bounds. 4. If you notice, if a WR is in a catch animation where he turns to face the ball and is standing still, his jump ball animation seems to make the defender AI go on full ******, they either wont try to defend the pass, or go into a WR catch animation, while the WR is jumping to catch the ball. If you try and manually defend you either can't move, or are put in a swat while on the ground animation or WR catch animation, WTF ? 5. Warping is STILL a big issue. 6. Suction blocking is STILL a issue. I actually got blocked by a offensive lineman that was in a get up off the ground animation. 7. You cant make football reads in a lot of cases when passing, you have to make "madden" reads because you can't believe what you are seeing. The defenders body language and momentum/direction they are running mean nothing. The instant you hit that pass button the whole Madden reality changes. The defenders make moves and changes directions in ways that would make a UFO jealous. There are those of us who play this game in spite of itself. We play it because our friends play it. Thats what makes it fun...playing with our friends, not the game itself. You will have those that will scream at me and say, well make slider adjustments, or , oh you just dont know how to play the game, and thoseare the SAME people who won't play a soul online...WHY ? Is it because the game they love allows a lot of BS and is broken ? Yet they expect me to absolutely LOVE it ? I am tired of typing...........This Demo is a 7.

Very well said. You have basically said everything I said and thought going back to 2005. Its not starting a war, it really is holding up a mirror to the Madden series. They have yet to blow the doors off the series. I know some people say its not a big deal to have a halftime show, or presentation like that. Its simply is immersion into the game your playing at that time. There are so many things that happen during a game of Madden and Ncaa that snaps you back to the fact that your playing a game of Madden or Ncaa, not football. There is simply no excuse why Madden or Ncaa presentation, immersion, glitches that effect gameplay, draft presentation, etc.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

Once again, judging by the title of this thread, none of this talk belongs here what so ever.

So you're saying that no one should respond to the following comment? Over something that was reasonable and part of the thread topic?

Quote:

"Actually think logically about what you're saying before typing."

Why weren't you telling this.....

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

Once again, judging by the title of this thread, none of this talk belongs here what so ever.

To the guy that made the above bold post? Instead of trying to completely disprove something that I know could be potentially possible?

Are you coming back with your post because you have nothing rational to come back with?

Again, I ask you, are you saying it was OK for one poster to basically be calling another one stupid over what was a reasonable statement?

And if "none of this talk belongs here", then why didn't you say this right up front, to the guy calling the other one stupid, instead of trying to make a invalid argument about what compilers and linkers do?

I agree with you, that your posts had absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic.

But I would like to discourage posters from calling each other stupid. So I responded to that guys post. And I did it in a respectful way. I think that's on OK thing to do.

EDIT: Now this was the correct way to respond to the post, instead of calling the guy stupid (see post 162)......

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

Where are you getting this info from?