Madden NFL 10: PRO-TAK - What's NOT There Yet...

[hmoob]

BB should recieve the benefit of the doubt, not Madden. If you can give both games that, more power to you, if you do it the other way around, all I gotta say is "how does it taste?"

[maddenps2]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

So you're saying glowing balls are what a company must implement when without a license? I guess I don't see the connection. What they've done to make me as supportive as I am of Madden is put the game in my hands and let me see what's changed. I support Madden because I like the game. Not '09, not '06, Madden NFL 10. Can you think of a better reason to support a game? See, and this is just stupid. I'll be pleased because backbreaker will fail? No, I wont be pleased. I wasn't pleased when APF was scrapped, I wasn't pleased when Blitz was scrapped. I buy every halfway decent football game on the market, be it sim or otherwise. I love football. Over the past 5 years the only football games that have come out that I have not purchased were Madden 08 and Madden 07 (I bought Madden '06 for PC). At this moment, I own all of the Tecmos except the PS2 and DS versions, Madden 08 (because it was bought for me) for PC, NFL Head Coach 07 and 09, APF, NFL 2k5, and BTL2. I do not and will not own BCFE or its sequel because I will not support a blatantly racist game. Otherwise, I purchase every game worth purchasing, and I plan to add Backbreaker to my collection when it's out. I do. Who else's opinion should matter to me? As I said, I like arcade stuff too. All I'm really saying as far as BackBreaker goes is that we have every right to tear it apart as much as we do Madden, and calling someone a fanboy because he thinks glowing balls are silly is ignorant and fanboyish in and of itself.

I disagree, you have to consider that madden is a 5 next-gen product, it deserves more criticism than back breaker.

If I took your unrealistic approach then I could just compare NFL2k5 to the Madden 2001, without even considering the fact that one has had 5 years to polish it's product.

[hmoob]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

Don't come up in here questioning people's intelligence, man, you are not going to last long that way. Not cool at all. Sim is sim. Realism is realism. You can't implement an arcade style of football and call it "sim-in-a-different-way". I know exactly what you're saying and I don't mind the idea. The perspective in-and-of-itself might be the biggest innovation BackBreaker makes if it works. It may end up being one of the most emotionally engaging football games ever made... but that doesn't make it sim.

You're confused.

Realism is different from a player's perspective than a fan-in-the-stand's perspective.

The player sees hits right in his face, and fast movements all round him, noise everywhere. And that's exactly what BB has shown so far. So it is SIM-ulation, from the players' perspective.

What Madden tries to achieve is SIM-ulation from a coach or a fan's perspective, seeing the whole field, knowing where everyone is, etc.

If you really did understand this concept, there should be no concern at all in that aspect. Yet I see quite the opposite on this forum.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by hmoob

BB should receive the benefit of the doubt, not Madden. If you can give both games that, more power to you, if you do it the other way around, all I gotta say is "how does it taste?"

I haven't given either team the benefit of the doubt. I have played Madden, so I know it's quality. Even still, I criticize it now. There are things missing from the game that I don't feel should be missing. There are ways the game operates that I don't like. Unfortunately my hands are tied on publicly criticizing because a lot of the things that I have criticized are not public yet. So no, you don't see me talk about it in public, but Ian's got a novel's worth of feedback from me and the other CD guys in word documents on his workstation.

Is it not enough to say I'm 90% likely to buy BB, regardless if it's sim or not? The point behind me saying it's not sim isn't that that's necessarily a bad thing, but that it doesn't belong in a conversation with Madden. It's not the same thing. Madden 09? Yes, because Madden 09 wasn't even attempting to be sim. Madden 10 is a different beast altogether, and BB is not in that category. It's not a 'lesser' game, but a different one.

And no, they do not have the right not to be criticized. Glowing balls are lame. Period.

[FootballDetails]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

Glowing balls are lame. Period.

Way to stay on topic.



This PRO-TAK discussion is great.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by hmoob

You're confused. Realism is different from a player's perspective than a fan-in-the-stand's perspective. The player sees hits right in his face, and fast movements all round him, noise everywhere. And that's exactly what BB has shown so far. So it is SIM-ulation, from the players' perspective. What Madden tries to achieve is SIM-ulation from a coach or a fan's perspective, seeing the whole field, knowing where everyone is, etc. If you really did understand this concept, there should be no concern at all in that aspect. Yet I see quite the opposite on this forum.

No... in the vernacular of this forum, "SIM" refers to realism. Not perception. You can have realism no matter where you put the camera or how you focus the audio. Flying tackles and glowing balls are still arcade. If Madden had it, no matter how deep the playbooks or where the camera was, it would be arcade. If BackBreaker was the most realistic depiction of football in history and put the cameras low on the field and blew up the player-perspective audio, it'd be sim.

Backbreaker is not a sim. I'm not saying it's necessarily arcade... it may very well be something new, all its own, and thats never a bad thing. I think this is where you are getting confused; I don't like the glowing ball or the flying tackles, but I never once said I had any problem with Backbreaker or hoped it would fail or even thought it would. I can't wait to get my hands on it, actually, and it may very well end up being extremely addictive.

But they have earned nothing. They deserve nothing. When I have a game in my hands that makes me pine for it while I'm at work, I'll praise 'em. Not before. Madden 10 has already done that for me.

PS: I'm going to kindly ask you a second time to stop talking down to me. I'm not 12.

[jjdogjjdog5162]

ugghh...can we just get a backbreaker board already so this stuff will stop appearing in Madden Forums. Seriously, all these post defending/comparing backbreaker are getting old.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by jjdogjjdog5162

ugghh...can we just get a backbreaker board already so this stuff will stop appearing in Madden Forums. Seriously, all these post defending/comparing backbreaker are getting old.

They'd still post here. Many of them are not interested in actually talking about BackBreaker, they just want something to compare Madden negatively too.