Madden NFL 15 Training: Changes in the Wide-Nine Technique (Video)

[shavane]

@CM Hooe - That's the point I made earlier if you have some beastly disruptive DTs like Suh and Fairley who can command double teams plus LBs that can tackle in space and take on runners than the wide 9 is more effective. If you don't have either of these and your 2 guards can handle the 2 DTs, this leaves your center and FB matched up on your LBer which will create huge running lanes.

I'm hoping that for the sake of this video and demonstration purposes the user controlled runner was taking the ball outside to demonstrate the DE disengaging from the T and making the play. I use the Eagles and if someone wants to run the wide 9 I am definitely cutting up field with McCoy. I pray that if the DE is on the outside shoulder like that he won't be able to magically warp and jump back inside to make the tackle.

[StefJoeHalt]

Quote: Originally Posted by shavane

@CM Hooe - That's the point I made earlier if you have some beastly disruptive DTs like Suh and Fairley who can command double teams plus LBs that can tackle in space and take on runners than the wide 9 is more effective. If you don't have either of these and your 2 guards can handle the 2 DTs, this leaves your center and FB matched up on your LBer which will create huge running lanes. I'm hoping that for the sake of this video and demonstration purposes the user controlled runner was taking the ball outside to demonstrate the DE disengaging from the T and making the play. I use the Eagles and if someone wants to run the wide 9 I am definitely cutting up field with McCoy. I pray that if the DE is on the outside shoulder like that he won't be able to magically warp and jump back inside to make the tackle.

I would kindly disagree..Lions D has been known to let up big runs over the past two years..issue is pro OC have learn to combat this formation defense..even with two big DT...this front is normally reserved for passing downs..

[hanzsomehanz]

I enjoyed the lab session!

I was receptive to everything he said and this is one of our very own OS'ers - kudos on the spotlight!

I will add that I would like to see imoroved pursuit from bacskide/Will defenders. Instead of just immediately sitting, this defender should be in hot pursuit that way if the RB in this video decided to cut back betwen a center and guard or up between a guard and tackle: the Will would be hot on his tail to make the tackle.

I think too much pressure is put on the Sam and Force in Madden and would like to see exceptional Will dedenders, like Lavonte David, standout in making chase-down plays from the backside flow.

You did mention you will have a lab session on the force - I look forward to that albeit, as stated earler, I would also like to see enhanced logic in the effect of Pro-Playmaker performance demonstrated by the weakside flow defenders.

To be clear, I thought the commentator covered his session well in respect to comparing 15 : 25 and Madden to NFL.

■ Every NFL scenario also showed the Wide-9 employed against a spread look with a Single-back featured in the backfield.

■ If in Madden you have the interior linemen who can draw double teams: you will be closer to being one of the few teams that can also contain the inside run.

■ I like the LOS demonstration of how the flow side edge defender is engaging /disengaging with a logic closer to that of a Pro which lends authenticity and realism.
■ You did say the ballcarrier (beelined) to the sideline perpindicular to the LOS (refusing to cut-back or up) and paid for it as he continued to pursue the sideline: this is a common Madden gamer practice and it will be welcomed to have a user experience an impetus to his ball carrier vision.

In furtherance to the enhanced AI logic that is present for edge contain on the flow side: I would like to see enhanced interaction logic added to the other box support defenders: Mike, Inside Will in 3-4, and D-linemen who can hold up against a single block w a clean path to the ball, shed that block and then pursuit the ball w intent to tackle or misdirect the flow.

Godspeed to you in your next session, Wolverine, & Madden too in respect to enhancing Pro-logic interactions universally at the LOS and in coverage.

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[GiantBlue76]

I spent a significant amount of time researching use of the wide 9 as a run defense. I found nothing. I watched a bit of game film as well and I saw nothing that would insinuate that the wide 9 is strategic against running formations. What I DID find was plenty of documentation verifying the weaknesses of this formation against traps, draws, off tackle and power runs. I believe these weaknesses are obvious even to a football laymen. You can't really use the wide 9 against any savvy opponent either. Once they see that gap they are changing the play. Why run outside into it? The fixes to the defense need to be in assignments and pursuit (as LBz, PSUEagle and a few others have explained much better). I believe some of these fixes have been put into the game, but there are still some issues there. If we are attempting to obtain an authentic gameplay experience (which I believe Rex and his team are attempting to do), then Tiburon should not be advocating use of the wide 9 as a run defense. That being said, if you are a team who wishes to run a wide 9 scheme, that doesn't necessarily mean you should automatically be horrendous at stopping the run. Talent and player ability is a LARGE part of success in the NFL. Even with a scheme like the wide 9, it is my belief that if you DID have the proper personnel, you could still be effective defending the run.

Another thing to note, is that if you DID use a wide 9 formation in Madden, does the game account for the rushing angle of the wide DE and does he actually use that to his advantage assuming he's the proper fit for that position? I would hope it should. Simply having the formation in the game just to say it's there would be an insult to the intelligence of football gamers. If you are going to put it in the game, make sure it works like it should otherwise don't include it until it does.

[hanzsomehanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Maybe [Wide-9 is] not so much a dedicated "run defense" as much as "dictating to the offense what to do" and attempting to deal with the consequences of that decision with superior personnel making up for the obvious tactical disadvantage between the tackles.

I am with you here - certain offensive sets will dictate the upperhand; conversely, the D can also dictate and now the Wide-9 will serve as an elevated hand vs Pass sets that offenses like to run outside on and b-line to the sideline without obstruction.

You would be at a great disadvantage to employ this vs wishbone/triple option (dive is money) personnel or vs a two-back backfield formation with the FB and RB or two RBs in splits - you are essentially defeated before the battle starts when matched vs a power run scheme ( Power I, Strong Power, Full House etc; ).

Quote: Originally Posted by shavane

I use the Eagles and if someone wants to run the wide 9 I am definitely cutting up field with McCoy. I pray that if the DE is on the outside shoulder like that he won't be able to magically warp and jump back inside to make the tackle.

It is the Will/Weaksiweakside flow defender who is coming free on these Single-back Spread looks that will and should be a disruption on cutbacks and any change of direction play from outside to inside or east to west - west to east and vice versa.

I see and appreciate the value in this strategy because H2H gamers are slick w spread sets amd run dives or counters all day w/ OP success: this is a viable strategy to employ vs those tough to stop Shotgun Spread sets.

I look at it like the mush rush contains: QB contain already existed but the logic and interaction was futile and ia now enhanced to add efficacy.

Likewise, Wide-9 techniques already exist but do not serve well in respect to blockshedding interactions: the logic is now enhanced to add performance value in this area.

It is still Madden ball and this is a strategy within the game but I will not go as far as saying that they have the teachig all wrong: you, as the user, must still discern the appropriate personell and scheme to use it against and judge if you have the fits for the scheme.

Its a chess move but not one that allows you to cover 3 squares in one move: you will still get pawned in an ill-favored situation.

It is not clear yet but I get the impression that its narrow merits vs the run are being met but not exceeded.

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[Mechcaniq]

If you look back @ the middle, it's well blocked for at least 5 yards are more. Can't wait!

[hanzsomehanz]

I hear the contention re the sentiment that the Wide-9 technique is a run stuffer. Rex did not explicitly state it was so nor did he elaborate on its limitations and strengths vs. certain matchups.

For those of you akin to H2H play: you KNOW from 1st hand experience that the Buck-sweep and general Shotgun runs designed to go outside were naturally OP from a general POV due to poor outside contain logic and OP blocking interactions.

The introduction of this 101 on the Wide-9 as an enhanced feature set is not some tutorial akin to how-to perform a killer instinct fatality combo; it is simply a stable scheme fit to kill two birds in one stone: it is a viable method to present a wall for these b-line runs to the sideline while still presenting an aggressive pass attack off the edge.

The chess match is still very much alive and this will call for H2H opponents to open up their playcalling.

▪The offense might audible but so can the D.
▪The D can also run commit or show blitz (box 8/46bear look).

The offense has its limitations as well: it cannot go from a Single-back feature set w 4 WRs to an I-form w 2TEs and 2WR thanks to the past - the offense also requires more time to audible and hot route: thanks to the present.

Hopefully folks will start seeing how these present features and enhancements are being added unto a good recent past of features and enhancements and are beginning to compliment eachother in harmony.

I am not of the lot that is excited for this title but my perspective is impartial and I think that indifference to the title's posture is what is allowing me to see things for what they are w/o the need of a thick lens.

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[juduking]

What I know of the wide nine defense comes from years and years of going to the Lions local website milve.com. Usually when the wide nine is brought up it is to commenters asking the beat writers to explain what it does and how it benefits the Lions personnel. The DEs in a wide nine are strictly pass rushers who have no run contain responsibilities. The run responsibility goes to the DTs and puts a ton of stress on the two LBs to make the tackle in space. Last year the Lions were number 6 in the NFL in run defense using this defense primarily on 3rd and longs and obvious passing situations. You can be sure if the Lions coaching staff knew a run was coming, they were not going to trot out in the wide nine.

More on topic, I think that RG was stating if you were using a playbook that had the wide nine package in it, it could be used to stop Quarter Backs who scramble outside, not all RBs like people are thinking here. The wide nine should stop QB roll outs, outside scrambles, and busted plays to the outside because the two DEs are hard charging toward the QB at an outside the shoulder angle. Thus what they said made sense to me about "run contain".