The Running Animations

[solja]

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Boilerbuzz said:
To be honest, I don't think there is a problem with the main running animation. We're watching the video game from a view that you RARELY EVER see on the TV or at a game unless you are high in the endzone. It reminds me of that Charlie Garner TD last year where they replayed it from behind. He looked like he had a stick up his but. Then you have the James Stewart and Mike Alstott gifs that everyone was drooling over. Well, those are the same animations in the game. From what I hear, those animations are mo cap of a REAL NFL running back. So whether you like the run style or not, it IS a realistic running animation because a REAL NFL player ran it. Funny thing is, it could have been Charlie Garner.

Then on the other side you have Madden's run cycle. Those animations are hand created. No doubt in my mind. Eveyone loves them. Does that mean we want VC to make a running animation from scratch. Maybe.

When it comes down to it, I don't care. It's cosmetic. As long as the players think like the real thing, I'm happy.

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u know u are the first person to let me know madden's animation is hand drawn..but i never knew this..and i've always posted on message board that i think vc should have the running animations hand drawn.it would come out better..!!!

but this years look hand drawn,,,,2k3 was down right good..

ANOTHER THING!-the 2k4 animation is kinda sweet kinda ********--who the helll u know's run with their arms swinging so shortly..or their feet just stomping up n down...especially the chest out head at attention chicken look..no damn body.....vc seems to need help in mo-cap or animations because it's another thing that goes in their baseball game n basketbal game....i for one liked the 2k3-2k3 running animations i could care less what people was saying about herky jerky..i never seen nothing like that.,,this issue is getting old..

[GAMEC0CK2002]

I agree the running animations don't feel nearly as fluid as Madden. Sega doesn't have any eggheads that could figure out how to get their players to move live the runners in Madden? I think some momentum would help this out a little bit.

[Boilerbuzz]

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gooberstabone said:

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Boilerbuzz said:
I can give you each of your points except one: The gifs being in slow motion. I don't think the Stewart gif was in slow motion. Also, like I said, people liked them. So there was SOMETHING right about them at some level.

For me, they can just leave the run alone and put in turns and I'll be happy. Those would not only look cool, but also fix some gameplay issues I have with the game.

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Hey, Buzz,

I'm almost positive that the Stewart .gif was in slo-mo too.

But anyway, you earlier posted about whether we want "hand-drawn" or "from scratch" animation? Well to that I say....Yes.

Or at the very least, a mixture of mo-cap and hand drawn. If that's what they already have, then they need to add MORE to the hand-drawn.

I know a little somethin' shumthin' about traditional animation, and in order to "sell" the movement of a character, you need to exaggerate natural movement in order to make it feel dynamic. Just a few key frames added here and there can work wonders for ESPN.

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The keyword you use is "traditional". Times have changed and the level of detail that is shown in game nowadays reduces the need to the exagerrated movement in games today. I LITTLE bit of it is needed in low frequency animations like stands, but for runs, my opinion, you won't see it. it would look stupid to you.

However, I agree, it may be to a point that VC may just need to doctor a mocap just enough. I have more own theories about the runs in both games, but they are mine and mine only.

[Boilerbuzz]

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GAMEC0CK2002 said:
I agree the running animations don't feel nearly as fluid as Madden. Sega doesn't have any eggheads that could figure out how to get their players to move live the runners in Madden? I think some momentum would help this out a little bit.

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I'm sorry, but what does "fluid" mean? This is the problem - I would think that someone at both companies looks at the animations and says, "looks real to me". Keyword being "me". You have 3 billion people in the world and not all of them run the same way. What looks fine to me may not like fine to you. From some angle, BOTH games looked jacked. So saying Madden's hand animated animation is "smooth" has no weight when no one can really define what "smooth" is.

If people want VC to "fix" the animation, they need to be detailed about what's "broken" and that needs to be a concensus.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I thought there were sixbillion people in the world.

[jmood88]

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gooberstabone said:
I thought there were sixbillion people in the world.

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The other 3 billion can't run.

[NYG_Meth]

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gooberstabone said:
I thought there were sixbillion people in the world.

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I just mentally slapped you in the face.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

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Boilerbuzz said:

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gooberstabone said:

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Boilerbuzz said:
I can give you each of your points except one: The gifs being in slow motion. I don't think the Stewart gif was in slow motion. Also, like I said, people liked them. So there was SOMETHING right about them at some level.

For me, they can just leave the run alone and put in turns and I'll be happy. Those would not only look cool, but also fix some gameplay issues I have with the game.

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Hey, Buzz,

I'm almost positive that the Stewart .gif was in slo-mo too.

But anyway, you earlier posted about whether we want "hand-drawn" or "from scratch" animation? Well to that I say....Yes.

Or at the very least, a mixture of mo-cap and hand drawn. If that's what they already have, then they need to add MORE to the hand-drawn.

I know a little somethin' shumthin' about traditional animation, and in order to "sell" the movement of a character, you need to exaggerate natural movement in order to make it feel dynamic. Just a few key frames added here and there can work wonders for ESPN.

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The keyword you use is "traditional". Times have changed and the level of detail that is shown in game nowadays reduces the need to the exagerrated movement in games today. I LITTLE bit of it is needed in low frequency animations like stands, but for runs, my opinion, you won't see it. it would look stupid to you.

However, I agree, it may be to a point that VC may just need to doctor a mocap just enough. I have more own theories about the runs in both games, but they are mine and mine only.

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...Hmm... I don't know. Maybe they just need BETTER MO-CAP. The men take short, choppy steps and don't swing there arms enough. If that's the way the mo-capper runs for real, then it's not fine, because that's not the way MOST people run.

... Take Splinter Cell for example. That's all hand-drawn. The way Sam Fisher shifts his weight as he creeps along. It's beautiful. He never has to sprint, per se, but even his jog shows weight as he bends his knees. These same principles can be applied to a football game. Shifting weight, bending knees, this all would add to the look and the gameplay on both sides of the ball, given added momentum for ballcarriers and defenders.