APF 2K9: What Could Have Been

[Malachi]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Great article? When the author is talking about the game context could've had something to do with the "football gods" ruling over every city and... I had to stop reading that junk. Like so many other throwaway OS articles of late. Pretty much nothing useful in it but the title. 2K made lots of mistakes with some of the choices they made with APF, but gamers need to acknowledge the difficulty of what they were attempting. So many of us wanted the game to be what we (individually) wanted the game to be. This author's laughably talking about some "football gods" game, the IGN review slammed the game for not being more bold choices like rethinking overtime rules or something, etc. Everybody wanted the game to be what they wanted it to be and faulted it when it wasn't.

I honestly could care less if you found the article great or not. You said you stop reading when you saw him mention the football gods, but if you would have read more, you would have 1, saw him state that this idea may be little out there to some and he may be letting his imagination run wild. Secondly, in which you pretty much missed the whole point of the entire football gods thing was that its main purpose was to add to the longevity of the game, so players that would want to play a franchise mode would get their wish, along with a story. I'm sorry everyone is not a online gamer, infact, 70% of gamers don't play online. You seem to have took it personal that he's suggesting things that would have made the game more interesting, and you took the article way out of context and way too serious. You're saying people need to acknowledge what 2K attempted to do, no one put a gun to their heads and told them to put out a game where you know people would be critical for various and obvious reasons. In this day and age, is it too much to ask for a franchise mode? Is it too much to ask for the presentation to be atleast on par with NFL 2K on a next gen console? Is it too much to ask not to have duplicate players lining up in the same game? I think you get the point by now. I for one understand what IGN was saying, and its just speaks to an larger issue. This was and is not an NFL license game, get out of safe mode, stop treating it as such, and make your own brand of football. No one is saying that this has to be APF Blitz 2K8/9, but you are (talking about 2K) no longer associated with the NFL.

Quote:

2K definitely tripped over themselves by making some frustratingly head-scratching choices. The game gives you no control over the cpu teams, and the generics. Perhaps if they approached the game with the idea of giving people that near-full customization many wanted (over everything except the legends), it would've extended the game's replay value somewhat on it's own. Personally I feel that was 2K's single biggest mistake. No franchise was a biggie also, but I think a bare-boned franchise mode would've been tagged useless and gotten almost as much flak as the hardcore gave it for not being there in the first place. In the end I think 2K was trying too hard to seperate themselves from the NFL. I can understand the approach, but in the end it's obvious that was pretty much unavoidable. I endorsed the approach myself and was wrong.

I agree with some of your setiments, but why are you automatically assuming that if a much needed franchise was included, that it would be bare bones? Was their last football game franchise mode bare bones prior to All pro? No. Once again, you're being an apologist for 2K. Have you ever thought about what if it would have been good and even deeper than the franchise mode of NFL 2K5? There's a flip side to what you're saying. at them not including a franchise because they were trying to seperate themselves from the NFL. Please stop with the non sense. They didn't include it because they didn't think hard enough on how to implement a franchise mode with legends.

Quote:

Still there's a lot 2K did right with the game, particularly on the field. And that's the frustrating thing - it's easy to see the game's immense potential that will likely never be realized. From what I've read APF didn't have a full compliment of people working on the game; it wasn't approached like an NFL2K or an NBA2K would be. Which makes sense, because it was a risky undertaking in the first place. But I think given that it's still pretty remarkable what they accomplished on their first attempt. Sadly gamers weren't going to show the game the patience they've shown Madden and NCAA, and in return we're going to miss out on something that could've been special in year 2/3, not year 5/6

Again I agree with your notion that All pro had potential and also had flashes of greatness, but again, you follow that up with an excuse as to why All Pro 2K8 wasn't up to par in alot of people minds. Do you think I as a gamer, care about how many people was working on the game? NO I don't give a F, when I'm dishing out 60 plus dollars for it, and then I have somewhat high expectations. I'm not trying to hear about anyones excuses as to why a game isn't as good as alot of people thought it would. I knew it was just a matter of time until you mention Madden. I, for one have been done with Madden since it release one of the worse games I've ever played in Madden 06 (next gen), so no I don't have patience for EA B.S either. Just imagine the uproar you would hear not only from this site, but from all football gamers if Madden didn't have a franchise mode. You can speculate however much want to, but you don't know the exact reason why 2K sports didn't release an All pro videogame this year. Stop blaming people for a change and blame 2K for not releasing all pro this year. They fumbled the ball and that's that.

[videobastard]

I agree with the people saying drop the legends, add fileshare, great customize feature, franchise mode and improved graphics.

[Triathlete_201]

Quote: Originally Posted by videobastard

I agree with the people saying drop the legends, add fileshare, great customize feature, franchise mode and improved graphics.

Agreed! Although I love the playing with the legends in 2K8, if they make another game, I'd rather have them spend all that money on everything you just mentioned. I honestly feel if they added file share, full customization, top notch presentation, graphics, etc. the game would sell very well.

[TCF]

the only problem i had with all of the 2k series was how they designed the facemasks on the helmets they looked cartoonish and for some reason that didn't agree with me. plus i couldn't stand the actors who were the commentators the game play was good and the presentation was awesome.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by Malachi

I agree with some of your setiments, but why are you automatically assuming that if a much needed franchise was included, that it would be bare bones? Was their last football game franchise mode bare bones prior to All pro? No. Once again, you're being an apologist for 2K. Have you ever thought about what if it would have been good and even deeper than the franchise mode of NFL 2K5? There's a flip side to what you're saying. at them not including a franchise because they were trying to seperate themselves from the NFL. Please stop with the non sense. They didn't include it because they didn't think hard enough on how to implement a franchise mode with legends.

lol seems I've pissed off a lot of people with my posts the last few days here and in the Madden forum. No prob. First, my opinion on the football gods idea was just that - an opinion. And I thought I did point out that what the author brought up was that we all have our ideas about which direction 2K should've taken. I don't think we've ever been able to come up with a consensus on what the game should be. Pre-release, there was a strong contingent of people that wanted fully customizable, 2 conference, 4 division, 32-teams at a minimum - which sounds awfully familar. Or at least the option to create that format, or any format they desired.

Regarding the franchise issue, most people logically assume if they had added one it would've been bare-bones simply because of the complexity of trying to develop something new. How would progression work with the new ratings system that has no numbers visible to the gamer? How would the legends be incorporated? What would be a fair financial structure? How are the yearly pool of college players generated/raked/rated? These are just things off the top of my head - I'm sure there's a ton of complexity involved in trying to develop a legitimate franchise mode. I don't think any of the current sports games have had to start from scratch developing a franchise mode. For example, while I'd guess while much of Madden next gen's franchise mode isn't exactly the same as the current gen version, I'd guess they were able to use *some* of the current gen version's code as a base. And well they should, because franchise mode was very well done last gen.

While 2K might be able to keep the format, pretty much all the names/numbers had to change at the very least, because they no longer had the NFLPA license. Then they'd have to think how to structure players given their focus on player abilities versus player ratings. I'm no programmer; I'm just wondering aloud what I'd think would be hurdles in trying to develop a functional franchise mode. I was also taking into account they didn't have the same number of people working on the game as they did the NFL2Kx games. Yes, I should've taken the god idea more seriously and looked at how it might've circumvented some of the issues I noted above. But as I said - everybody had their own idea on what they wanted the game to be. For some, the themed stadiums were too much and not grounded in reality enough.

Quote: Originally Posted by Malachi

Again I agree with your notion that All pro had potential and also had flashes of greatness, but again, you follow that up with an excuse as to why All Pro 2K8 wasn't up to par in alot of people minds. Do you think I as a gamer, care about how many people was working on the game? NO I don't give a F, when I'm dishing out 60 plus dollars for it, and then I have somewhat high expectations. I'm not trying to hear about anyones excuses as to why a game isn't as good as alot of people thought it would. I knew it was just a matter of time until you mention Madden. I, for one have been done with Madden since it release one of the worse games I've ever played in Madden 06 (next gen), so no I don't have patience for EA B.S either. Just imagine the uproar you would hear not only from this site, but from all football gamers if Madden didn't have a franchise mode. You can speculate however much want to, but you don't know the exact reason why 2K sports didn't release an All pro videogame this year. Stop blaming people for a change and blame 2K for not releasing all pro this year. They fumbled the ball and that's that.

Imo it wouldn't make sense to waste time developing a franchise mode you know would essentially be broken for the sake of saying there's a franchise mode. And for the reasons I noted above, I would think it would be difficult to get a functioning franchise mode in year one. I've said myself - 2K made a lot of mistakes themselves. They should've involved the community more. In retrospect it probably would've been better to wait another year. The game is unnecessarily restrictive. I've been harping on the horrible uniform choices since day one. I hate that they didn't redo the juke system. Etc. etc., I could name a ton of things I feel they got wrong. I wasn't trying to excuse 2K. But, I look at the game as a first year next gen effort - when compared to other first year next gen sports game efforts compares favorably, if not better, than many. Imo the game was judged more against 2nd/3rd year games and expectations, which isn't a fair comparison.

As to why I don't blame them for releasing another game, the fact is the standard should be different. I wouldn't pick up Blitz expecting it to give me some sim experience. I wouldn't pick up Burnout expecting it to give me some racing experience it's not intended to give. As you said, 2K chose to place more emphasis on the online functionality of APF. Rightly or wrongly, that's the choice they made; that was the game's intention. A lot of the issues we're discussing are the limitations or what the game's lacking offline. I'm not much of an online gamer myself so I understand the frustration. But, 2K did choose to place more emphasis on the online portion of the game.

EDIT: just to add, I think Backbreaker if it sees the light of day will go through something similar - have been saying it all along. It's not going to be judged for the first year game it is

[mwjr]

Forget football gods. Forget teams crossing eras.

Just add a franchise option where you can opt to use all fictional characters in a fictional league.

The gameplay is amazing. Always has been. If you add a franchise and drop the cost from $59 to, say, $29, license or no, people are going to buy the game.

[totalownership]

I always thought that the Legends should have been used as owners/coaches not as actually players. Now don't get me wrong their idea was great too and being a person who doesn't care too much about franchise in football it doesn't bother me too much but for others actually playing Legends in franchise is wrong.

[kcxiv]

First off. APF was made for online play. They stated that from the get go. Jeff Thomas i think his name was, said this game is for the hardcore 2K5 fans. It was a barebones game, but they stated that from the get go. They didnt lie to their fans. They were up front about it. They also said they wanted to release a football game every 2 years.

Game has some problems just like every sports game, but imo their problems were not completely broken like we have seen from the game that was just released. IMO, they did a damned fine job in their first step towards next gen football. It was by far the best gameplay game ever created that i have played. I though Madden 05 was decent, i just cant get over ea's animations they are horrible and not fluid. 2k5 while it was the total package did have problems with to much animation at times. Seriously toned down in 2k8 though.

I am sure if they were going on their 3rd game and not their 7th or 8th game like the other football games, it would be heads and shoulders better then what you all get this year. Yeah, i said you all, becuase i am not falling for their crap. lol

Another thing about people saying they should have recreated the nfl in 2k8. They already said, that they were hoping to acquire the NFL license for 2k10 i beleive, but since the NFL is ******** and reupped with EA, thats out the window. They have no reason to not let you go full out custimization for another game.


While we dont have alot of info, they did say that the series is not dead. So we really dont know wtf is going on. lol