OS Fact or Fiction: Basebal Games Cometh Edition

Feature Article

Submitted on: 02/19/2009 by

It is a new week here at Operation Sports and we are creeping up on the release of the two major baseball titles. This week we have four staff members checking into the fact or fiction roundtable and answering some important questions for this week. Is MVP 05 the best baseball game ever or will MLB 09: The Show surpass it this year? Is EA or Take Two going to be bought out in 2009's weak economy? Check out their thoughts on these issues and a few more in this week's fact or fiction.

Is MLB '09: The Show set to be the greatest baseball game ever?

MLB '09: The Show will be the best baseball game ever made.

Jack Hoeffel - Fact. MLB 08: The Show was the best baseball game last year, and the SCE San Diego team has only improved on past successes. With a much deeper franchise mode, tightened gameplay and a ridiculous amount detail, MLB 09: The Show looks to further separate itself from the crowd. Based on the early build available in the demo, it appears to be a must-buy for all baseball fans, or at least those with a Playstation 3.

Caley Roark - Fact. MLB 08 practically sold me on a PS3, and I was not disappointed. I loved the atmosphere, gameplay and franchise options; all of those look to be upgraded in some way this year. At this point, MLB's only competition is a modded MVP 05. Out of the box, MLB 09 should blow everything away.

Christian McLeod - Fiction. While MLB 09: The Show will be a fantastic baseball game, it will still pale in comparison to MVP 05. MVP 05 is still superior in the areas of ball physics, fielding, throwing and baserunning, at least based on my time with the MLB 09 demo. It is not that MLB 09 is bad by any means, it is just that MVP 05 set the bar incredibly high. Is MLB 09 going to be the best baseball game ever released on the current wave of consoles? Yes. Is it going to be the best ever? No.

Ray Delizo - Fact. The amount of detail available in MLB 09: The Show is staggering. The guys at SCE San Diego have done a wonderful job year in and year out with Sony's baseball franchise. The franchise mode is chock full of options to keep even the most avid baseball fan occupied, the gameplay is solid, and the atmosphere and commentary are top notch. Plus, Road To the Show has been a staple over the last several years, offering fans just another way to play the game.

Pepsi ads aside, MLB 2K9 looks to be much improved.

MLB 2K9 will definitely be a big improvement over last year.

Jack Hoeffel - Fact. From what I have seen from Steve's early gameplay videos, it appears that Visual Concepts has greatly improved on the disaster that was MLB 2K8. The real-time world, which was highly touted in the feature list, looks to be just as good as promised, and I believe it will take MLB 2K9's presentation to the next level. Finally, it appears that baseball fans may have two great baseball games to choose from.

Caley Roark - Fact. The videos make MLB 2K look pretty good, especially the "live" presentation and new commentators. Assuming the glitches that have plagued the series in the past are gone, the tweaks to the existing gameplay may raise the overall quality of this game.

Christian McLeod - Fact. MLB 2K8 was flat out unplayable for me last year. That game alone led me to purchase a PS3 just to play a solid baseball title in '08. Based on the gameplay videos I have seen on the Net, I would have to say I am pretty impressed. Gameplay as a whole looks to be vastly improved over 2K8 (e.g. steady frame rate), and the overall look of the game could lead to some serious playtime for those who love baseball and only own a 360. I would go as far as saying that I may pick up 2K9 to play with all my 360 buddies online, and then stick with MLB 09 for my dynasty and Road To the Show needs.

Ray Delizo - Fact. After the disastrous year Take Two and 2K Sports had with MLB 2K8, the franchise is looking like it could rebound and be a baseball game that is better in terms of overall quality. By simplifying the controls and concentrating on addressing areas where the game fell short last year, there is a chance that MLB 2K9 will be closer to what fans who only own a 360 want in a baseball game. That is not to say that MLB 09: The Show's hold as the best baseball game will be threatened any time soon, no. But I do see MLB 2K9 improving this year.

Would MVP be like the Rays or the Yankees of last year?

If EA Sports was still making MVP Baseball, it would be as good as MLB 09: The Show is today.

Jack Hoeffel - Fact. MVP Baseball 2005 was the best baseball game available for many years. It had great graphics for its time, incredibly solid gameplay and a deep stat system. If Take Two had not bought exclusive third-party rights to Major League Baseball, it is very possible that MVP Baseball 2009 would be as good if not better than MLB 09: The Show.

Caley Roark - Fiction. After watching how EA has handled Madden's transition to the current-generation consoles, I do not have too much confidence in what MVP would have become. I loved MVP 05 (and still play it occasionally), but I imagine that the features that made that game great would have been dropped and then touted as new features later on.

Christian McLeod - Fact. When the MLB license was sold to Take Two, MVP was on the brink of total gaming greatness. Not only did MVP nail bat-on-ball physics, and just about everything else about the game of baseball, but the developers were able to deliver the best dynasty mode ever. No other game to date has been able to duplicate the accurate player progression, trade A.I. and free agent A.I. that MVP 05 featured. There is something to be said when both games currently on the market generously imitate almost every feature that MVP introduced to the genre -- throwing meters, analog sliding, PIP baserunning, pitching meter, etc. To be perfectly honest, if MVP 05 was given the HD treatment like Street Fighter HD, I think it would sell a million-plus copies.

Ray Delizo - Fact. Despite being one of the unlucky few that has never played MVP 2005, I still have fond memories of firing up my old Xbox and playing MVP 2003 for hours on end. From what I have read and seen of MVP 2005, it was a phenomenal game. Could EA make a MLB game today that would rival or even surpass The Show? If EA still had the MLB license and the MVP series was still around, yes EA could.

Is it EA's turn to go through a possible buyout in 2009?

The economic situation will result in either an EA or TT buyout this year.

Jack Hoeffel - Fiction. Considering how many rumblings there have been in the past regarding a potential buyout of Take Two, I do not believe it will get to a point this year in which the company is forced to accept a buyout. In regards to EA, I believe the company is too obsessed with its own business right now to allow anyone to buy it out. Also, considering that EA is beginning to drop information regarding Madden NFL 10, it seems possible that EA has new ideas for the franchise and is planning to stay independent for a long time.

Caley Roark - Fact. It seems like every month the gaming landscape is changing as one company is bought out by another or collapses altogether. I do not think it is a stretch to say that one of these two companies will go this year. And while EA is powerful, I do not think it is strong enough to outlast the mix of a weakened economy and a more powerful company like Disney.

Christian McLeod - Fiction. I think both TT and EA will survive another year by cutting back on certain projects and focusing on quality titles. In the long run, this is going to help gamers because by cutting the fat, both companies will start to give us the quality, detail-oriented sports games that we have been asking for over the last four years.

Ray Delizo - Fiction. I do not see EA being in trouble any time soon. Madden NFL 10, as well as the new line of EA Sports titles, will keep gamers playing. After all, EA has been an industry stalwart for a reason. As far as Take Two is concerned, I honestly do not know what might happen. My gut feeling is that it will find a way to make it through the economic crisis.

Member Comments

# 21 -Sonnenschein- @ 02/19/09 01:55 PM

Well, yes MVP 05 had problems: it was too easy on the lower difficulty levels and too hard on the higher ones (without adjusting sliders) and I hit a lot of HR:

but: at least they had a stadium creator, which had the problem that you needed many seasons to max it out and I had to sim most of it and you couldn't really determine much. But it could've been used for other games to implement a mode like CREATE your dynasty together with a game creator. I'm not the Be A Pro/ Road to the Show guide so I don't care about these modes in Fifa/ MLB 08.

And though presentation might surpass anything we have seen yet (except commentary which seems totally boring in The Show) I doubt The Show will surpass MVP 2005 just yet. Maybe next year, but for this they'll have to include more modes. They haven't really progressed on that since 2007: all they have done so far (seemingly) is presentation and sorry but I'd rather stay with lame graphics compared to The Show but have a fun time playing ball in MVP 2005.

What I do think is good for both MLB 09 + MLB 2k9 is that they both have practice modes now!

But yes, it can be debated if MVP is really that great. I do think so

# 22 -Sonnenschein- @ 02/19/09 01:58 PM

oh: and The Show still needs to improve pitching so it actually looks like pitching! It still looks sooooooooooooooooo off, which kind of annoys me and takes away from the realism and fun

# 23 spitoon @ 02/19/09 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azamien


	Wait, what? MVP 05 had to be modded to achieve anything close to realism in any of the areas he mentioned. I think people are putting MVP on a pedastal that it doesn't quite deserve. Was it good? Yes. Was it the best baseball game at the time? Yes. But come on, it played terribly out of the box, so to say that it's "still superior", especially in those areas (ball physics were a complete joke!), is revisionist history. What made MVP 05 great was the ability to mod it. Otherwise it was an average title.

I think this is the most important part of this 'argument'.

I spent as much time (probably more) modding MVP '05 as playing it. One time, when I got a new computer, I installed the game 'out of the box' with no mods, and it was virutually unplayable for me. On a scale of 1-10, MVP out of the box was probably a 6 or 7, but with the proper mods it approached a 9.

Now, given the fact that MLB '09 will not be moddable (outside of rosters), it won't have that advantage, but I'm confident from what I've seen that it will be very good.

# 24 ehh @ 02/19/09 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azamien


	I think people are putting MVP on a pedastal that it doesn't quite deserve. Was it good? Yes. Was it the best baseball game at the time? Yes. But come on, it played terribly out of the box, so to say that it's "still superior", especially in those areas (ball physics were a complete joke!), is revisionist history.

To say it played terribly out of the box is just wrong, so many Xbox/PS2 gamers loved MVP '05 and they didn't have any benefits of the PC mods.

# 25 nemesis04 @ 02/19/09 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehh


	To say it played terribly out of the box is just wrong, so many Xbox/PS2 gamers loved MVP '05 and they didn't have any benefits of the PC mods.

They also kept things moving too with the college series as far enhancing game play and innovation. That was only ps2 though.

# 26 ehh @ 02/19/09 02:33 PM

At least the beauty of this thread is that people are only arguing as to which game they feel is overrated. No one is saying that The Show or MVP 05 suck which is obviously good for us as gamers. Different fans like and look for different things in video games. It's easy to see why someone would be fanatical about either game, and also easy to see why someone would think one is overrated.

# 27 swaldo @ 02/19/09 03:04 PM

Any reference to MVP 05 should be the PC modded version. There is a reason the price of a retail boxed version is $100 on ebay as compared to $5 for the console version.

Does The Show 09 justify spending $300-400 on a console & game for those that aren't Sony gamers? As for me playing MVP 05 PC modded + OOTP + MLB2K9 will probably hold me over. The Show will have to be pretty dang good for me to change my mind...

# 28 vegaas @ 02/19/09 03:22 PM

MVP 05 was a great game, but yes it needed to be modded to get there. I remember putting countless hours simulating changes made to the tune file(I know it wasnt called a tune file, old HH reference, but same thing) by Bill Harrs. I would send the results he would modify it more and then more hours of simulating. This went on for sometime before finding the right balance. So who says MVP 05 was great out of the box is sadly mistaken.

As for The Show, after the disapoinment of 2k8 I bit the bullet and bought a PS3 just for The Show. I was not disappointed and I never had the thought that I wish I was playing HH or MVP. I had that thought several times before The Show, but not after.

# 29 trm538 @ 02/19/09 03:38 PM

the ball physics were ok. I played the game again the other day and randy johnson's slider does not move 8 feet across the strike zone. It was ridiculous

# 30 Petocrew @ 02/19/09 03:48 PM

I'm going to get roasted but I haven't embraced a baseball game since Baseball Stars. I find that either a main component of gameplay to be all off in every game.

I realize Baseball Stars was an arcade experience, but at least it was fun for me.

I'm hoping that the Show or 2K game delivers this year.

# 31 JohnnytheSkin @ 02/19/09 05:04 PM

A bit off topic, but what are the forum names of these writers? Since most of the OS discussion is IN the forums, knowing the backgrounds and opinions of these guys would be helpful.

Maybe an Arena link for each one in their names or something?

# 32 crazymallard @ 02/19/09 05:50 PM

hey JohnnytheSkin, I'm Jack Hoeffel. You may see me on the forums now and then, but to be honest I haven't posted much recently.

# 33 Knight165 @ 02/19/09 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art1bk


	Somebody has to be wearing those because they see things differently then you

Ha...well...yes....NO I'm only kidding.

I think you misunderstood my post.
I was saying ....take a fan(esp...nutty fan

) of ANY game and they seem to put on their version of those goggles about that game.

M.K.
Knight165

# 34 rdelizo35 @ 02/19/09 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnytheSkin


	A bit off topic, but what are the forum names of these writers? Since most of the OS discussion is IN the forums, knowing the backgrounds and opinions of these guys would be helpful. Maybe an Arena link for each one in their names or something?

Hey JohnnytheSkin,

I'm Ray Delizo, and I'm on here from time to time.

# 35 btown12 @ 02/19/09 07:10 PM

OK, I just popped in MVP 05 and after playing a few games, I don't see it. Maybe I'm missing something but pretty much everything that's been mentioned (ball physics, hit variety, ball/bat contact, etc...) doesn't seem as great as everyone's making it out to be. Of course, this is the PS2 version...the PC version is a completely different animal.

MVP was great for it's time (still one of my all time favs mainly because of the graphics, mini games and owner mode) but this seems to be a case of a 2 ft. long fish growing 6 inches every time the story is told...if you know what I mean

Of course, no one's opinion can be wrong, you can choose to like whatever game you want, but I would rate MLB '08 higher than MVP '05, and thus believe MLB '09 will be even better.

# 36 sgthalka @ 02/19/09 07:25 PM

When people get all misty-eyed about MVP '05, they tend to gloss over the up-and-to-the-right insta-HRs and the pinpoint pitching accuracy with identical breaks every throw.

I loved the stadium creator, though.

The Show would have eclipsed MVP in 2006 were it not for bugs.

# 37 redsoxfan2434 @ 02/19/09 08:51 PM

theres no doubt mvp 2005 was the best at the time, but its been 4 years man. Unbelievable graphics, some new features, and RTTS make it impossible for MVP to match it. However, if EA had these 4 years to improve the game, MVP 2009 (if it existed) would blow THE SHOW out of the water.

# 38 sooners52794 @ 02/19/09 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgthalka


	When people get all misty-eyed about MVP '05, they tend to gloss over the up-and-to-the-right insta-HRs and the pinpoint pitching accuracy with identical breaks every throw. I loved the stadium creator, though. The Show would have eclipsed MVP in 2006 were it not for bugs.

god i have never played mvp 05 but i want a game with a stadium or team creator (or both like in madden). it would b a bit arcade-like but it would freshen up any baseball game if it was good...i wonder why not many ppl ever talk about that

# 39 Chizzypoof @ 02/19/09 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btown12


	MVP was great for it's time (still one of my all time favs mainly because of the graphics, mini games and owner mode) but this seems to be a case of a 2 ft. long fish growing 6 inches every time the story is told...if you know what I mean Of course, no one's opinion can be wrong, you can choose to like whatever game you want, but I would rate MLB '08 higher than MVP '05, and thus believe MLB '09 will be even better.

I have to agree with you here. Even NFL 2k5 is not the same when I pop it in now compared to how I remember it. I did love MVP 05, but I remember one of the features of the game was the grass patterns. Hearing Kruk and Kuip talk about the grass before every game got annoying. I know it was a minor thing, but it still got to me.

MVP was great, but it's just speculation to say it would have continued it's dominance. It would definately have been beneficial to us to have the competition though.

P.S. Ichiro's swing was "dead on" in this series.

# 40 Shinyhubcaps @ 02/19/09 10:32 PM

MVP 2005 was good, but let's re-think how they would fare today...

1.) MVP 2006 was marginally a step back. The rock-throw pitch meter was probably the only tangible gameplay sacrifice.

2.) Madden NFL AND NBA Live both did poorly on their first jumps to the PS3 and Xbox 360.

3.) Classic stadiums and alternate jerseys, as well as the stadium editor, would likely be cut for the new generation. I say this because alternates were cut from NBA Live, classic stadiums were cut from really all games, and the court creator in NBA Street was removed. It seems that with the upgrade in graphics, they wouldn't take the time to add back all of the accessory things.

I loved MLB 2005 for the PS2, but it may be like ESPN NFL 2K5 vs. All-Pro Football 2K8. Something gets lost in translation, and I highly doubt MVP could have recaptured the magic with the new consoles.

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