Madden Should Bring Back Its PS2 Era Substitution System

Feature Article

Submitted on: 06/05/2015 by Jayson Young

Last Thursday, EA Sports released a long list of improvements that football fans will find this August in Madden NFL 16's Connected Franchise mode. But for the hardcore, simulation-minded gamers, the biggest news of the day might have involved an item that EA left off their list.

That afternoon, several posts surfaced from Game Informer editor, Matt Bertz, EA Sports Game Changer, Casey Mosier, and Madden designer, Clint Oldenburg, all suggesting that Madden NFL 16 won't be making any changes to its current substitution system.

If this turns out to be true, then gamers will once again be forced to make all of their formation subs from inside the huddle in Madden NFL 16, while the play clock is winding down. In a sport where one drive is often the difference between a narrow victory and a heartbreaking loss, having to sacrifice several delay of game penalties at the start of every Madden match just to set up all of your offensive substitutions is terrible game design. Plus it can take multiple drives to finally complete all of your defensive substitutions, because the formation selection screen automatically disappears a few seconds after the offense picks their play.

What makes this potential omission all the more irksome, is that Madden used to handle formation-specific substitutions so well. If you own a PlayStation 2, Xbox, GameCube, or PC, you can fire up Madden NFL 08's Franchise mode, click on the "Coach's Corner" option, and easily set up substitutions for any formation in your playbook, including all of your special teams. And unlike in Madden NFL 15, these changes will save permanently, instead of being reset after every game.

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Member Comments

# 21 ajblithe20 @ 06/05/15 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snc237


	That was the golden age off virtual football. Yes 2k got shot down but it wasn't a horrible thing cause madden was amzing back then..... Until the horrible 360 maddens came. Even to this day madden isn't what it use to be compared to the Xbox/ps2/GC days. I wish they would of ported that version to the 360 and built off that cause the game still struggles in so many areas.

I could be wrong here, but I believe the only thing that would keep them from porting the PS2 version over is because they couldn't do what they wanted with the graphics? It's funny because Madden's graphics still lag behind 2k, NHL, FIFA, and MLB The Show.

# 22 The Gunslinger @ 06/05/15 03:05 PM

Just another popular feature that for whatever reason has not been brought back. I stopped playing Madden at Madden 25, so I apologize if anything I've placed on this list has been put in Madden 15. Here's some other features that have yet to be brought back from the ps2 era:

-Assistant coaches: remember you could have a OC, DC, and ST coach? The feature even included real life assistants. This feature never made it over to the 360/PS4 versions probably bc of NFL Head Coach being released. But since a new version of Head Coach hasn't been produced in 6 years, why hasn't this feature ever returned? Why am I forced to choose from a pool of generic head coaches in the offeseason instead of being able to choose from real life assistant coaches or the ability to change the name of the generic head coaches?

-Create a stadium

-Create a team

-Create a play

- Editing Rosters in Franchise mode

-CPU v. CPU mode

-Cheerleaders

-Player profiles showing the previous teams that the player has competed on

-In the offseason, tags indicating which players had made the "Pro Bowl"

-Dynamic crowd attendance

-Tony Bruno radio show

-Fan/Mascot cutscenes

-Senior Bowl

# 23 kyle2525111 @ 06/05/15 03:07 PM

I always loved formation subs especially for a wildcat or pistol formation. It was even in ncaa football 14. No clue why they took it out.

# 24 Mr.Papercut @ 06/05/15 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gunslinger


	Just another popular feature that for whatever reason has not been brought back. I stopped playing Madden at Madden 25, so I apologize if anything I've placed on this list has been put in Madden 15. Here's some other features that have yet to be brought back from the ps2 era: -Assistant coaches: remember you could have a OC, DC, and ST coach? The feature even included real life assistants. This feature never made it over to the 360/PS4 versions probably bc of NFL Head Coach being released. But since a new version of Head Coach hasn't been produced in 6 years, why hasn't this feature ever returned? Why am I forced to choose from a pool of generic head coaches in the offeseason instead of being able to choose from real life assistant coaches or the ability to change the name of the generic head coaches? -Create a stadium -Create a team -Create a play - Editing Rosters in Franchise mode -CPU v. CPU mode -Cheerleaders -Player profiles showing the previous teams that the player has competed on -In the offseason, tags indicating which players had made the "Pro Bowl" -Dynamic crowd attendance -Tony Bruno radio show -Fan/Mascot cutscenes -Senior Bowl

Create a stadium was until Madden 12, assistant coaches were until Madden 12, CPU vs CPU was until Madden 12, tags indicating PB players was until Madden 12, Player profiles showing their former teams was until Madden 12, Editing rosters was until Madden 12... See where I'm going?

Ever since they introduced this Connected Careers crap in Madden 13 have things really gone back. I remember building a stadium for my LA Rhinos relocation team, appointing Brian Schottenheimer as my coach and appointing Rex Ryan as my DC after he was fired by the Jets in my franchise. Madden 12 had basically all of those franchise things we sim-gamers crave about, but for some unknown reason EA decided to go forward with Connected Career/Franchise-thingy which still to this day isn't anywhere close to Madden 12's Franchise mode, which had basically everything to make it deep and most important of all, enjoyable. I've always wanted to travel to E3 or somewhere like that and ask directly what the hell are they thinking at Tiburon.

# 25 Hooe @ 06/05/15 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Papercut


	Create a stadium was until Madden 12, assistant coaches were until Madden 12

I'd like to call out these two things, because it's my opinion that they weren't strong features to begin with as they were previously implemented and I don't miss them.

The implementations of coaches in previous versions of Madden was a bad afterthought leftover from a shallow game design mechanic initially created in Madden NFL 2004. Coaches statically affected attributes of certain position groups, never evolved over time, didn't affect player progression, didn't have any sort of personality, or really weren't special at all. They were the equivalent of a Madden card. It was really incredibly weak game design, especially compared to how, say, NCAA Football 14 handled offensive and defensive coordinators. There was no compelling reason to not just hire the coaches who gave the best attribute bonuses and then never worry about coaching staff ever again.

Create a stadium also wasn't very good IMO. I can't remember creating a stadium in Madden which didn't look entirely generic. The number of pieces available was too few to make the stadium truly look like my stadium, and EA never really fleshed out the feature after its initial addition in (I think?) Madden NFL 08 on the then-next-generation consoles.

My point here - on these two things specifically, was the way it was so good that it is actually sorely missed? Keeping things in the game just for the sake of it can sometimes prevent a game from moving forward.

(Understandably, the mechanic leaving the game ought to be replaced by something better, and in the case of assistant coaches specifically, that's where Madden has erred, as they aren't back in the game yet; at the very least with Owner mode there are a number of unique stadium choices available).

# 26 NoFlyZoneAzCards @ 06/05/15 04:31 PM

Definitely would like to see some of the old features from previous maddens in all upcoming madden games 1. I would love to see the college players as character faces instead of seeing a player that is already on a team in the game just ruins the whole draft for me seeing two to three faces exactly the same on one team just ridiculous 2. like to have the old progression from older maddens 3. Defensive assignments 4. Instead of picking your skill level to play at witch just gets stupid sometimes do the old my skill level where it adjusted to your skill level so im not throwing 7 INT a game 5. Crowd realislm

# 27 Mr.Papercut @ 06/05/15 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	I'd like to call out these two things, because it's my opinion that they weren't strong features to begin with as they were previously implemented and I don't miss them.

Sure they sucked for the most part, but they were still in the game. I admit, I didn't understand how former players as coaches would have such a great effect on the team's attributes. For example I had Michael Turner as my OC when he retired and he had +5 on BCV, elusiveness, juke move etc. My point is, wouldn't you rather have them now in the game in the same state they were in Madden 12? Sure the attribute boosts etc. sucked and were somewhat unreal but it's the same thing with the confidence they introduced, just maybe more permanent. Stadium builder was rather lifeless, but they should've just build on it rather than abandon it completely along with the real staff. The connected career mode they replaced franchise mode with was incredibly and horribly bare in sense of the features. And it still is, you can't watch a CPU vs CPU match, have real staff or build a stadium.

The problem with all this is that they could've built easily on what they already had, but they ditched them altogether. Custom stadiums are in there sure, but it's getting boring already. If you wanted to have a realistic CFM stadium wise, you would have to relocate 3 teams just in the beginning of the save, and the options are very limited. I don't want Chargers playing in the dome or in an alienship-like stadium, nor do I wan't teams over time having similar stadiums. Again, they could've built on what they had but they decided to take several steps back.

# 28 Hooe @ 06/05/15 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Papercut


	My point is, wouldn't you rather have them now in the game in the same state they were in Madden 12?

Personally, I would not go back to the state franchise mode was in in Madden NFL 12 because that would also require going back to the state that online franchise was in for Madden NFL 12, which was just awful (it didn't even have a proper unrestricted free agency period).

I value the online franchise experience in Madden NFL way too much now, even if it is missing some of the bells and whistles from the past.

Reasonable minds can beg to differ, but that's my stance on the matter.

# 29 charter04 @ 06/05/15 05:00 PM

We always hear the Madden team from about Madden 12 on say that this or that wasn't added because not enough people wanted it or ask for it.

I say that's bull. Who said they wanted a MUT style depth chart? I haven't once read anyone saying that a new depth chart was on their wish list.

For that matter I haven't seen one guy in any forum saying they wanted EA trax back.

Did anyone ask for a new tackle mechanic or pass rush mechanic? Nope. But, we got it anyway.

The reason EA hasn't added formation subs is simple. They don't care about it. They don't think it will be a good thing to put on the back of the box. I know it has been mentioned numerous times on this site and by game changers.

They know we want it. There is no confusion about it.

I'm tired of the rhetoric of being told, we are more concerned with gameplay than formation subs. Oh really, then how did you find the time to change the depth chart? Something no one ask for.

Just tell us the truth. You don't care about formation subs. lol

# 30 NoFlyZoneAzCards @ 06/05/15 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	We always hear the Madden team from about Madden 12 on say that this or that wasn't added because not enough people wanted it or ask for it. I say that's bull. Who said they wanted a MUT style depth chart? I haven't once read anyone saying that a new depth chart was on their wish list. For that matter I haven't seen one guy in any forum saying they wanted EA trax back. Did anyone ask for a new tackle mechanic or pass rush mechanic? Nope. But, we got it anyway. The reason EA hasn't added formation subs is simple. They don't care about it. They don't think it will be a good thing to put on the back of the box. I know it has been mentioned numerous times on this site and by game changers. They know we want it. There is no confusion about it. I'm tired of the rhetoric of being told, we are more concerned with gameplay than formation subs. Oh really, then how did you find the time to change the depth chart? Something no one ask for. Just tell us the truth. You don't care about formation subs. lol

I really think the formation subs would be sick because you could put a WR at TE just totally exploit it be awesome

# 31 charter04 @ 06/05/15 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoFlyZoneAzCards


	I really think the formation subs would be sick because you could put a WR at TE just totally exploit it be awesome

You can already do that in the in game subs. I think. I'm sure some are already doing that kind of stuff.

# 32 GaspipeGorgeous @ 06/05/15 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchwartz07


	Madden really peaked feature-wise two consoles ago. Now it is all about pumping out a $60 roster update with new "ultimate team" features so you can pay more money to collect digital cards. It has also always blown my mind that you can't split time at any position. Say I have 2 RB's, like I dunno EVERY TEAM IN THE NFL, that I want to share the load equally, can't do it... but I can pay $20 to get Barry Sanders on a fictional team with random guys... so there is that.

It's terribly true.

# 33 charter04 @ 06/05/15 05:52 PM

Really I would prefer a realistic packages system. Like someone mentioned. Madden 92 and 93 kind of had that.

On defense I just want players in the right spot. A 4-3 nose should always be line up correctly. As I is we have to switch guys to keep them from being in the 3 tec spot in some formations. Also have an actual will and Sam LB.

Also some WR's are slot guys in 3 WR formations ever time.

Also being able to sub special teams like you want.

Those are the things I use formation subs for but, if they can just do it right we wouldn't need formation subs.

# 34 DeuceDouglas @ 06/05/15 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	My point here - on these two things specifically, was the way it was so good that it is actually sorely missed? Keeping things in the game just for the sake of it can sometimes prevent a game from moving forward.

In short, not really. But looking at what something like coaching staffs could or should be at this point is what is sorely missed. And I'm not just talking hypothetically speaking either as much as just taking what's already in the game and building with it. With gameplans you could have some very creative playstyles for fictional coaches and coordinators that would change how certain CPU teams feel over time and could even be exciting for the user to make a coaching change. I still remember playing Madden 2004 and having guys like Tim Brown become coaches and another team having the Raiders playbook where it seemed like they passed 90% of the time. The tools are all there but they don't even allow us to create these kinds of scenarios.

And then in terms of something like position coaches, it's not exactly sim but dealing with the current goals system something as simple as a multiplier or discounts on certain attributes that could help with certain positions progressing faster or quicker based on these coaches and/or confidence boosts/steadying is something that would provide something relevant to strive for when it comes to putting them in the game as well as something to tweak and build on for the future.

# 35 oneamongthefence @ 06/05/15 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	I'd like to call out these two things, because it's my opinion that they weren't strong features to begin with as they were previously implemented and I don't miss them. The implementations of coaches in previous versions of Madden was a bad afterthought leftover from a shallow game design mechanic initially created in Madden NFL 2004. Coaches statically affected attributes of certain position groups, never evolved over time, didn't affect player progression, didn't have any sort of personality, or really weren't special at all. They were the equivalent of a Madden card. It was really incredibly weak game design, especially compared to how, say, NCAA Football 14 handled offensive and defensive coordinators. There was no compelling reason to not just hire the coaches who gave the best attribute bonuses and then never worry about coaching staff ever again. Create a stadium also wasn't very good IMO. I can't remember creating a stadium in Madden which didn't look entirely generic. The number of pieces available was too few to make the stadium truly look like my stadium, and EA never really fleshed out the feature after its initial addition in (I think?) Madden NFL 08 on the then-next-generation consoles. My point here - on these two things specifically, was the way it was so good that it is actually sorely missed? Keeping things in the game just for the sake of it can sometimes prevent a game from moving forward. (Understandably, the mechanic leaving the game ought to be replaced by something better, and in the case of assistant coaches specifically, that's where Madden has erred, as they aren't back in the game yet; at the very least with Owner mode there are a number of unique stadium choices available).

Assistant coaches created a mini narrative inside franchise mode. The created coaches now are all generic guys that sort of just appear out of nowhere. I thought it was so cool that Brett Favre retired. Came back a year later and he was my offensive coordinator til Mike Sherman retired and Favre was my head coach and I can see him standing on the sidelines. These types of stories don't really happen. Every year in franchise everything gets more bland and generic and it's hard to care about playing more than a few years. But Brett Favre was the narrative that tied it all together after 30 years.

# 36 GaspipeGorgeous @ 06/05/15 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	I'd like to call out these two things, because it's my opinion that they weren't strong features to begin with as they were previously implemented and I don't miss them. The implementations of coaches in previous versions of Madden was a bad afterthought leftover from a shallow game design mechanic initially created in Madden NFL 2004. Coaches statically affected attributes of certain position groups, never evolved over time, didn't affect player progression, didn't have any sort of personality, or really weren't special at all. They were the equivalent of a Madden card. It was really incredibly weak game design, especially compared to how, say, NCAA Football 14 handled offensive and defensive coordinators. There was no compelling reason to not just hire the coaches who gave the best attribute bonuses and then never worry about coaching staff ever again. Create a stadium also wasn't very good IMO. I can't remember creating a stadium in Madden which didn't look entirely generic. The number of pieces available was too few to make the stadium truly look like my stadium, and EA never really fleshed out the feature after its initial addition in (I think?) Madden NFL 08 on the then-next-generation consoles. My point here - on these two things specifically, was the way it was so good that it is actually sorely missed? Keeping things in the game just for the sake of it can sometimes prevent a game from moving forward. (Understandably, the mechanic leaving the game ought to be replaced by something better, and in the case of assistant coaches specifically, that's where Madden has erred, as they aren't back in the game yet; at the very least with Owner mode there are a number of unique stadium choices available).

Those two features weren't properly refined but they were more realistic then now having Joe Blow as your OC or just choosing a generic Create A Stadium design. They had tremendous potential to really go somewhere if they kept with it to better refine and finely tuned them instead of what ended up happening.. Yes not having every single retired player become a possible coach but having ones say with plus 90 AWR at time of retirement and over 15 years experience as requirements to become coaches. Having there benefits change over time based on the quality of work at that their respective positions.It is true once the Coaching Staff was introduced it wasn't changed at all and thus not properly refined but that is the fault of the developmental team not the feature.

Beside just attribute boosts, Coaches could've had different schematic familiarity, different personality characteristics that would affect how they not only get a long with players but other coaches. The younger coaches that are less experienced would be cheaper and have less benefits but for example give him a great veteran defense where the coach quickly becomes better and thus more expensive might be loyal to that organization for giving him a chance. These are all off the top and very vague but the point is that the feature was a great starting point and def added more realism to the sad state it is now.

As for the Create-A-Stadium the same point that it was a good starting position and you are completely right that it was too many generic pieces to really give the feel that it was your stadium but once again if they continued with it by adding more custom Seating arrangements, TV sizes and locations, Amount of suites, different types of food vendors (for income), Dome, Retractable? No Dome, Grass, turf, different stadium locations(City or Rural), Overall design pattern (Modern or Brick), they could've also meshed it with the innovative MVP baseball build your own Stadium how you add on depending on how much money you make etc. The point is that it wasn't the fault of the features, it was the lack of refining and tweaks after there initial introductions where the problem is.

# 37 GaspipeGorgeous @ 06/05/15 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneamongthefence


	Assistant coaches created a mini narrative inside franchise mode. The created coaches now are all generic guys that sort of just appear out of nowhere. I thought it was so cool that Brett Favre retired. Came back a year later and he was my offensive coordinator til Mike Sherman retired and Favre was my head coach and I can see him standing on the sidelines. These types of stories don't really happen. Every year in franchise everything gets more bland and generic and it's hard to care about playing more than a few years. But Brett Favre was the narrative that tied it all together after 30 years.

Yes you get it.

# 38 Mr.Papercut @ 06/05/15 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaspipeGorgeous


	Yes you get it.

+1

Sure it was badly implemented but it gave more meaning to your franchise. I had a particularly long Chargers franchise, and I remember giving Rivers the HC job after he had lit up every Chargers passing record there was. Eventually I won SB with him, and it was just amazing to make him a legend not only for the team, but for the city. Probably my views on the matter are affected by these nostalgic feelings but I would much rather have Rivers or some other realistic person coaching the team than character named Tomas Single or some random fat-*** dude with nothing given on his football background to make it even more realistic. Yes, you can use your imagination to give it "realism", but to some it isn't enough. Why they couldn't just develop these features is beyond me. EA constantly doesn't deliver, which surprises no-one.

# 39 BigTone1970 @ 06/06/15 01:12 AM

Along with the formation subs, the biggest glaring omission is the individual matchups where you could assign the #1 CB to line up against the #1 WR and so on regardless of where the WR lined up. It's still far too easy to line up the #1 WR in the slot and he is matched against the #4 CB and there is nothing you can do about it. This never, ever happens on Sundays, period.

# 40 michaelhalljr @ 06/06/15 01:06 PM

I really like whatever year Brees was on the cover, you could talk guys into not retiring. You could convince one or two guys a season. I had Brett Favre playing til he was 50!!

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