Madden Should Bring Back Its PS2 Era Substitution System

[NoFlyZoneAzCards]

Quote: Originally Posted by charter04

We always hear the Madden team from about Madden 12 on say that this or that wasn't added because not enough people wanted it or ask for it. I say that's bull. Who said they wanted a MUT style depth chart? I haven't once read anyone saying that a new depth chart was on their wish list. For that matter I haven't seen one guy in any forum saying they wanted EA trax back. Did anyone ask for a new tackle mechanic or pass rush mechanic? Nope. But, we got it anyway. The reason EA hasn't added formation subs is simple. They don't care about it. They don't think it will be a good thing to put on the back of the box. I know it has been mentioned numerous times on this site and by game changers. They know we want it. There is no confusion about it. I'm tired of the rhetoric of being told, we are more concerned with gameplay than formation subs. Oh really, then how did you find the time to change the depth chart? Something no one ask for. Just tell us the truth. You don't care about formation subs. lol

I really think the formation subs would be sick because you could put a WR at TE just totally exploit it be awesome

[charter04]

Quote: Originally Posted by NoFlyZoneAzCards

I really think the formation subs would be sick because you could put a WR at TE just totally exploit it be awesome

You can already do that in the in game subs. I think. I'm sure some are already doing that kind of stuff.

[GaspipeGorgeous]

Quote: Originally Posted by BSchwartz07

Madden really peaked feature-wise two consoles ago. Now it is all about pumping out a $60 roster update with new "ultimate team" features so you can pay more money to collect digital cards. It has also always blown my mind that you can't split time at any position. Say I have 2 RB's, like I dunno EVERY TEAM IN THE NFL, that I want to share the load equally, can't do it... but I can pay $20 to get Barry Sanders on a fictional team with random guys... so there is that.

It's terribly true.

[charter04]

Really I would prefer a realistic packages system. Like someone mentioned. Madden 92 and 93 kind of had that.

On defense I just want players in the right spot. A 4-3 nose should always be line up correctly. As I is we have to switch guys to keep them from being in the 3 tec spot in some formations. Also have an actual will and Sam LB.

Also some WR's are slot guys in 3 WR formations ever time.

Also being able to sub special teams like you want.

Those are the things I use formation subs for but, if they can just do it right we wouldn't need formation subs.

[DeuceDouglas]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

My point here - on these two things specifically, was the way it was so good that it is actually sorely missed? Keeping things in the game just for the sake of it can sometimes prevent a game from moving forward.

In short, not really. But looking at what something like coaching staffs could or should be at this point is what is sorely missed. And I'm not just talking hypothetically speaking either as much as just taking what's already in the game and building with it. With gameplans you could have some very creative playstyles for fictional coaches and coordinators that would change how certain CPU teams feel over time and could even be exciting for the user to make a coaching change. I still remember playing Madden 2004 and having guys like Tim Brown become coaches and another team having the Raiders playbook where it seemed like they passed 90% of the time. The tools are all there but they don't even allow us to create these kinds of scenarios.

And then in terms of something like position coaches, it's not exactly sim but dealing with the current goals system something as simple as a multiplier or discounts on certain attributes that could help with certain positions progressing faster or quicker based on these coaches and/or confidence boosts/steadying is something that would provide something relevant to strive for when it comes to putting them in the game as well as something to tweak and build on for the future.

[oneamongthefence]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I'd like to call out these two things, because it's my opinion that they weren't strong features to begin with as they were previously implemented and I don't miss them. The implementations of coaches in previous versions of Madden was a bad afterthought leftover from a shallow game design mechanic initially created in Madden NFL 2004. Coaches statically affected attributes of certain position groups, never evolved over time, didn't affect player progression, didn't have any sort of personality, or really weren't special at all. They were the equivalent of a Madden card. It was really incredibly weak game design, especially compared to how, say, NCAA Football 14 handled offensive and defensive coordinators. There was no compelling reason to not just hire the coaches who gave the best attribute bonuses and then never worry about coaching staff ever again. Create a stadium also wasn't very good IMO. I can't remember creating a stadium in Madden which didn't look entirely generic. The number of pieces available was too few to make the stadium truly look like my stadium, and EA never really fleshed out the feature after its initial addition in (I think?) Madden NFL 08 on the then-next-generation consoles. My point here - on these two things specifically, was the way it was so good that it is actually sorely missed? Keeping things in the game just for the sake of it can sometimes prevent a game from moving forward. (Understandably, the mechanic leaving the game ought to be replaced by something better, and in the case of assistant coaches specifically, that's where Madden has erred, as they aren't back in the game yet; at the very least with Owner mode there are a number of unique stadium choices available).

Assistant coaches created a mini narrative inside franchise mode. The created coaches now are all generic guys that sort of just appear out of nowhere. I thought it was so cool that Brett Favre retired. Came back a year later and he was my offensive coordinator til Mike Sherman retired and Favre was my head coach and I can see him standing on the sidelines. These types of stories don't really happen. Every year in franchise everything gets more bland and generic and it's hard to care about playing more than a few years. But Brett Favre was the narrative that tied it all together after 30 years.

[GaspipeGorgeous]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I'd like to call out these two things, because it's my opinion that they weren't strong features to begin with as they were previously implemented and I don't miss them. The implementations of coaches in previous versions of Madden was a bad afterthought leftover from a shallow game design mechanic initially created in Madden NFL 2004. Coaches statically affected attributes of certain position groups, never evolved over time, didn't affect player progression, didn't have any sort of personality, or really weren't special at all. They were the equivalent of a Madden card. It was really incredibly weak game design, especially compared to how, say, NCAA Football 14 handled offensive and defensive coordinators. There was no compelling reason to not just hire the coaches who gave the best attribute bonuses and then never worry about coaching staff ever again. Create a stadium also wasn't very good IMO. I can't remember creating a stadium in Madden which didn't look entirely generic. The number of pieces available was too few to make the stadium truly look like my stadium, and EA never really fleshed out the feature after its initial addition in (I think?) Madden NFL 08 on the then-next-generation consoles. My point here - on these two things specifically, was the way it was so good that it is actually sorely missed? Keeping things in the game just for the sake of it can sometimes prevent a game from moving forward. (Understandably, the mechanic leaving the game ought to be replaced by something better, and in the case of assistant coaches specifically, that's where Madden has erred, as they aren't back in the game yet; at the very least with Owner mode there are a number of unique stadium choices available).

Those two features weren't properly refined but they were more realistic then now having Joe Blow as your OC or just choosing a generic Create A Stadium design. They had tremendous potential to really go somewhere if they kept with it to better refine and finely tuned them instead of what ended up happening.. Yes not having every single retired player become a possible coach but having ones say with plus 90 AWR at time of retirement and over 15 years experience as requirements to become coaches. Having there benefits change over time based on the quality of work at that their respective positions.It is true once the Coaching Staff was introduced it wasn't changed at all and thus not properly refined but that is the fault of the developmental team not the feature.

Beside just attribute boosts, Coaches could've had different schematic familiarity, different personality characteristics that would affect how they not only get a long with players but other coaches. The younger coaches that are less experienced would be cheaper and have less benefits but for example give him a great veteran defense where the coach quickly becomes better and thus more expensive might be loyal to that organization for giving him a chance. These are all off the top and very vague but the point is that the feature was a great starting point and def added more realism to the sad state it is now.

As for the Create-A-Stadium the same point that it was a good starting position and you are completely right that it was too many generic pieces to really give the feel that it was your stadium but once again if they continued with it by adding more custom Seating arrangements, TV sizes and locations, Amount of suites, different types of food vendors (for income), Dome, Retractable? No Dome, Grass, turf, different stadium locations(City or Rural), Overall design pattern (Modern or Brick), they could've also meshed it with the innovative MVP baseball build your own Stadium how you add on depending on how much money you make etc. The point is that it wasn't the fault of the features, it was the lack of refining and tweaks after there initial introductions where the problem is.

[GaspipeGorgeous]

Quote: Originally Posted by oneamongthefence

Assistant coaches created a mini narrative inside franchise mode. The created coaches now are all generic guys that sort of just appear out of nowhere. I thought it was so cool that Brett Favre retired. Came back a year later and he was my offensive coordinator til Mike Sherman retired and Favre was my head coach and I can see him standing on the sidelines. These types of stories don't really happen. Every year in franchise everything gets more bland and generic and it's hard to care about playing more than a few years. But Brett Favre was the narrative that tied it all together after 30 years.

Yes you get it.